diy solar

diy solar

Inverters / controllers for well pump & lights

We are in a mobile home but the way things are going we want to be able to run things when the lights go out.

How long are the lights out?
An above-ground water tank could be a better solution. Run well pump when grid is up, small booster pump to feed house.
Even if you do decide to run the well pump off PV, better to do that when sun is shining that off battery at night.
 
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I guess tie 7 12v batteries in parallel to 4 batteries in series that make 48v
From your 6 12V batteries, if you got 2 more, you could conveniently make a 48V bank 2 ways:
2P4S or 4S2P. An advantage of one over the other is not standing out to me right now.

If these are all 100Ah batteries, you would have a 48V (51.2V nominal) 200Ah battery bank.
10,240Wh
 
One note: the Schneider SW4048 inverter cannot be paralleled, or at least that's what I got looking in December. Older ones they sold as being stackable, but something wasn't working, and the newer ones, last I saw, are sold as single inverter only.

Whether your panels are enough is entirely a question of how much water you need. A couple hundred gallons a day from a nicely producing shallower well like you have, probably. A thousand or two a day, maybe. Some pump output calculations and water usage monitoring will give you some numbers to work with.
 
Here is a pump chart provided previously by another member, Mike95495. Scrolling through the data, it appears that your pump might consume 8.4amps while running, but 31.4amps right at startup. For my own pump, a 1hp Grunfos, I find I'm getting about 9.5A and 38A. So, I feel the chart is very accurate. So, you'll need an inverter that can continously supply at least 2016W, and surge to 7536W.

Right at the start, I'd say your solar input would be totally inadequate. Using the 2X rule, I'd suggest you have ~4000W of panels to run your pump, or roughly four times what you have now. My pump needed 2280W to run, so I installed 4500W of panels. It works. My panels however are on rotating mounts, so they can face East in the morning and West in the afternoon. With this arrangement, I can pump water from 8:00AM till 4:00PM continously, without battery depletion.

Well pumps have very high starting surges, 4X or so, and most demand that surge for about a second or two. Keep in mind that most budget-model AiO units have next to no starting surge, maybe 2X for only 16 milliseconds or so. You should shop for an inverter that has a minumum of a 5 second starting surge. I've got a Schneider XW+6848. The Outback Radian is another viable choice. Both put out split-phase 120/240VAC.

A well-pump is just about the biggest thing anyone attending this site is going to ever run. The good news though is that a system that can run your pump, can run just about anything else, including lights, TV, refrigerators, freezers, and power tools.

You MIGHT get a smaller inverter, like a Conext 4048 to work, but the specs are a bit iffy, and you are right at the high end boarderline. If it does prove to be inadequate though, the good news is that you can parallel a second one and sync them together to double output.

The batteries though are not the right number. You are very much in 48V territory, here, and you need four of them in series to make a 48V battery. Can those batteries be wired in series? If not, you have to get rid of them and start over. If they can, then you should get two more so you can make a 4S2P battery bank.

Don't buy anything else until you have a clear plan. You don't want to repeat things like buying the wrong batteries. What every off-gridder should have though is a good clamp meter that can read "inrush current". Shop for a Uni-T 216C on Ebay. It runs around 80-85$ right now. Get one so you don't have to guess anymore.
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Your Grunfos has that many LRA?
Is yours a SQ?
 
2P4S or 4S2P. An advantage of one over the other is not standing out to me right now.
I believe that the only difference would be smaller series conductors, but twice as many for 4s2p.
And since this would be two battery banks, in parallel. Two smaller protection devices.
 
The OP is complaining about the cost of fuel, so that sounds like continuous to me.

But hey, what do I know? My only experience is how to pump about 265,000 gallons of water, solely via solar. Please outline your solar pumping experience?
He is in a mobile home. I have to wonder where he is putting all that water.
 
I believe that the only difference would be smaller series conductors, but twice as many for 4s2p.
And since this would be two battery banks, in parallel. Two smaller protection devices.

Both were 4s, 48V.
Difference was connecting in parallel across midpoints of two 4s.

The OP is complaining about the cost of fuel, so that sounds like continuous to me.

We are in a mobile home but the way things are going we want to be able to run things when the lights go out.

Save on cost of fuel, operating when grid is down?
I think buying a cheap generator, gritting your teeth, and paying whatever price for gas at the pump ($6 or $7/gallon these days?) will save the most money.

Batteries can save money compared to fuel, if you need lower levels of power for a long time. For instance a couple hundred watts continuously all night, where generator would be more inefficient at that power level.

Both fuel and batteries cost more than grid, can't save money over utility rates by using them. But OP's goal is to have water when power is out.

Utility costs $0.20 to $0.50/kWh in my area. May be as low as $0.05/kWh in some parts of the country.
Diesel generator all costs comes to $1.00/kWh (per TrukinBear), gas generator costs more. Natural gas may cost less.
Batteries cost $0.50/kWh (AGM or lithium), $0.25kWh (FLA)
PV costs $0.025/kWh

Utility may or may not have a minimum monthly charge. $10/month in my case.

After purchase price (low for cheap portable, higher for fixed), generator doesn't cost anything when not used. Is lowest cost for occasional use.

Batteries only get down to price above if cycled to end of life. About 200 to 700 cycles for AGM and 10 year life, so if not needed at least 2 to 7 times per month, they age out and cost per kWh even higher. FLA better numbers but needs maintenance. Lithium 3000 to 6000 cycles, maybe 20 years so need to cycle every other day to get lowest cost per kWh.

PV delivers based on about 5 effective average sun hours per day, more in summer less in winter. In 20 years gives cost quoted, but should last 40 years. Of course, all power produced needs to be used to get best cost per kWh. If used to pump water 3 days per month, all day long, price goes up to $0.25/kWh. If half the power used and pump off half the time, $0.50/kWh.

Any of these solutions is quite expensive, especially for occasional use.
A large above-ground water tank to hold water until grid power returns may be the most economical.

A nice system that makes financial sense could be a PV/battery hybrid that does grid-tie net metering or zero-export. Every day, all PV power produced supplies household loads at a cost between $0.025 and $0.10/kWh (depending on system cost). When power is down PV provides enough power to run the well pump and recharge batteries. Only pump water when sun is out or grid is up. At night, small batteries provide backup for a few loads like LED lighting and telecom.

I use AGM batteries for such a system because cycle life is sufficient for occasional grid failures, and it is simple & maintenance free. DIY or repurposed lithium batteries can be had for same or lower capital cost (but more work) so may be attractive.
 
One note: the Schneider SW4048 inverter cannot be paralleled, or at least that's what I got looking in December. Older ones they sold as being stackable, but something wasn't working, and the newer ones, last I saw, are sold as single inverter only.
Yes, I think you are correct. It's the Shneider XW series that is now parallelable.
 
Your Grunfos has that many LRA?
Is yours a SQ?
It's been 6 years now since it's gone in the ground. Can't remember now, and don't have the paperwork. But, this is so very why I recommend that everybody get an inrush clamp. No guessing. I bought this meter back when it was just 56$. Now the price is inching up to double that. I recommend that everyone get one.
 
I'm trying to find a 12v 220 inverter to run a well pump also..it would only be for emergency power outages..the Schneider seems to be sold out and the outback doesn't have 12v..is there any other 5000watt 220 inverters on the market. I have a ton of 12v large batteries that's why I want to stay with a 12v system
12V would be hard to do on a well pump. Let's say startup surge is 30A. 30A x 120V = 3600W per leg. 3600W divided by 12V = 300A needed for a 12V system per leg for a total of 600A.

24V system would be 150A, 48V system would be 75A per leg.
 
It's been 6 years now since it's gone in the ground. Can't remember now, and don't have the paperwork. But, this is so very why I recommend that everybody get an inrush clamp. No guessing. I bought this meter back when it was just 56$. Now the price is inching up to double that. I recommend that everyone get one.
I use an o-scope with a clamp on meter, way more than 56 bucks. I can say the surge at startup on my 3/4 hp well pump is peak 48A which tapers down to the running 12A for 66.5ms.
 
A clamp meter is an invaluable tool.
I actually own 6. Because, you never know how many ways you will want to observe a situation.
 
I only have one (Harbor freight model because it has 0.01A resolution, good for PV strings), but also half a dozen current transformers, which allow me to see AC current on scope or DMM. Voltage and current waveforms together tell a more complete story.
 
My Fluke set up cost me $1,100 , 20 years ago.
I always carry my Klein digital clamp meter.
I have a couple of analog clamp meters, so that I can watch real time fluctuations. And I recently purchased a no name brand, from Amazon. Just because it links to an app on my phone. Should be handy, when I need to place the meter in a place where I can't get my big fat head. lol
 
It's been 6 years now since it's gone in the ground. Can't remember now, and don't have the paperwork. But, this is so very why I recommend that everybody get an inrush clamp. No guessing. I bought this meter back when it was just 56$. Now the price is inching up to double that. I recommend that everyone get one.
I have a Klein inrush meter.

The reason I ask is my SQ doesn’t pull anywhere near that on startup or running.
 
Has anyone ever tried the Delta Source power solar generator that "says" it works with a well pump? https://www.deltaforcepower.com/col...cts/lithium-well-pumps?variant=33425213751349
I don't want to buy this if no references in place of trying to put together a solar system with confusing inverters.
No way. Looks like total BS to me. Let's break down this statement mathematically.

The run time for a 1 HP pump is approx 50 minutes and the 160 watt solar panel will charge the system back to full in approx 4 hours (or only 2 hours with two 160 watt panels​

I know my 1hp well pump consumes 2200W while running, so an hour of pumping amounts to 2200Wh (2.2kWh). 50 minutes would equal 0.83hr. So the total consumption in 50 minutes would be 2200Wh X 0.83 = 1826Wh.

Assuming that this 160W panel was magically 100% efficient, then the total production would be 160W X 4 hr = 640Wh. This appears to be a blatant lie!
 
No way. Looks like total BS to me. Let's break down this statement mathematically.

The run time for a 1 HP pump is approx 50 minutes and the 160 watt solar panel will charge the system back to full in approx 4 hours (or only 2 hours with two 160 watt panels​

I know my 1hp well pump consumes 2200W while running, so an hour of pumping amounts to 2200Wh (2.2kWh). 50 minutes would equal 0.83hr. So the total consumption in 50 minutes would be 2200Wh X 0.83 = 1826Wh.

Assuming that this 160W panel was magically 100% efficient, then the total production would be 160W X 4 hr = 640Wh. This appears to be a blatant lie!
Thanks. Just wanted to hear what I knew couldn't possibly be true.
 
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