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IOTA Engineering IQ4 LiFePO4 Module Discussion

This has been pretty educational, but I see a problem.

While I personally wouldn't use the IOTA and IQ4 as my "desktop charger", preferring lower voltages, the IOTA's are frequently used with generators.

So the objective is to get charged as fast as you can so you don't waste fuel in a long tail-current absorb. Ie, someone using a 35A DLS with an 800ah LFP bank. Run the genny in the most efficient way possible, and spend little time in absorb - albeit LFP is still pretty fast. So I think I see why they chose the trigger of 14.6v CV, and the timer.

So higher voltage, but limited time. If your Miady bank can't handle it, well that brings up the question of trying to design around grade-b cells and grade-b BMS. Hard problem.

I can say this - for my non-critical Talentcell LFP batteries, if I throw a NOCO lithium charger which takes it all the way up to 14.6v, I have no problem. Perhaps the cells are decent, or the bleeders have done their job. Not that I want to take them up to 14.6v every time - which I don't. I do know that when I do, I don't spend much TIME doing so as compared to using lower voltages. Yes, the differences can be considered minor as a one-off, but if I were to keep a log of time over the years, the lower voltages would actually spend more time above the knee.

So perhaps these IOTA specs are designed more with generator / alternator use and limiting fuel-burning in mind?
 
This has been pretty educational, but I see a problem.

While I personally wouldn't use the IOTA and IQ4 as my "desktop charger", preferring lower voltages, the IOTA's are frequently used with generators.

So the objective is to get charged as fast as you can so you don't waste fuel in a long tail-current absorb. Ie, someone using a 35A DLS with an 800ah LFP bank. Run the genny in the most efficient way possible, and spend little time in absorb - albeit LFP is still pretty fast. So I think I see why they chose the trigger of 14.6v CV, and the timer.

So higher voltage, but limited time. If your Miady bank can't handle it, well that brings up the question of trying to design around grade-b cells and grade-b BMS. Hard problem.

I can say this - for my non-critical Talentcell LFP batteries, if I throw a NOCO lithium charger which takes it all the way up to 14.6v, I have no problem. Perhaps the cells are decent, or the bleeders have done their job. Not that I want to take them up to 14.6v every time - which I don't. I do know that when I do, I don't spend much TIME doing so as compared to using lower voltages. Yes, the differences can be considered minor as a one-off, but if I were to keep a log of time over the years, the lower voltages would actually spend more time above the knee.

So perhaps these IOTA specs are designed more with generator / alternator use and limiting fuel-burning in mind?
I think your point is valid. Charging your battery bank infrequently with a generator at 14.6v will have a very limited affect on the lifespan of the batteries. Ideally you are only running the generator sporadically when your solar yield isn't enough to keep them charged. If someone is running a generator daily or even 2-3 times a week they should consider upgrading their solar and/or battery bank. The real lesson learned here is: Don't buy a battery charger without knowing it's specs first then proceed to blame the company for providing a voltage you aren't satisfied with. If you want to know the output voltage, ask them first before making the purchase. It isn't rocket science.
 
Right - it's not rocket science. AND, with the Iota trigger at 3.65v, (14.6v pack) that assures that for those relying on a bms' bleeder to function, how do they know if the bms manufacturer has those bleeders set for 3.5, 3.55, or even 3.6v before they function?

And if your bank is going high-voltage and shutting down, well, time to hit up either your battery manufacturer or bms maker and raise some hell. Or perfect your diy techniques.

The 15 minute timer assures that if those bleeders are something wimpy as compared to the overall size of the bank, the IQ4 won't spend all day in the upper knee tickling those fets / resistors.

So yeah, do what you want with solar. There is also a user-level intervention that can also take place if they are counting coulombs too and stop whenever they wish. Or just stop the genny before a full charge even takes place and save some fuel. In the meantime, it will be running as efficiently as it can.

There is a parallel to another older chemistry I see happening. Ask any person on the street about recharging say AA nimh, and 99% will tell you it is best to go "low and slow" and charge them for 14-16 hours with a trickle. When the reality is that you should charge them up at least at 0.5C to initiate the eoc trigger, and get the charge over and done with. Unfortunately, the crap chargers that many pick up that miss that trigger, ruin cells, and perpetuate this low and slow myth.

Unless you've been there, the long-term effects of time go unseen at first with LFP. Or hidden by over-capacity, or minimal use (not daily cycling) that it becomes very hard to convince someone that the clock is ticking ever so slightly every cycle. So if one has a long-term outlook, they pick the strategy that closes the time gap the best.

So yes, the IQ4 was designed properly, without consulting the variables of what DIY'ers may have done right or wrong. We're not their market.
 
Right - it's not rocket science. AND, with the Iota trigger at 3.65v, (14.6v pack) that assures that for those relying on a bms' bleeder to function, how do they know if the bms manufacturer has those bleeders set for 3.5, 3.55, or even 3.6v before they function?

And if your bank is going high-voltage and shutting down, well, time to hit up either your battery manufacturer or bms maker and raise some hell. Or perfect your diy techniques.

The 15 minute timer assures that if those bleeders are something wimpy as compared to the overall size of the bank, the IQ4 won't spend all day in the upper knee tickling those fets / resistors.

So yeah, do what you want with solar. There is also a user-level intervention that can also take place if they are counting coulombs too and stop whenever they wish. Or just stop the genny before a full charge even takes place and save some fuel. In the meantime, it will be running as efficiently as it can.

There is a parallel to another older chemistry I see happening. Ask any person on the street about recharging say AA nimh, and 99% will tell you it is best to go "low and slow" and charge them for 14-16 hours with a trickle. When the reality is that you should charge them up at least at 0.5C to initiate the eoc trigger, and get the charge over and done with. Unfortunately, the crap chargers that many pick up that miss that trigger, ruin cells, and perpetuate this low and slow myth.

Unless you've been there, the long-term effects of time go unseen at first with LFP. Or hidden by over-capacity, or minimal use (not daily cycling) that it becomes very hard to convince someone that the clock is ticking ever so slightly every cycle. So if one has a long-term outlook, they pick the strategy that closes the time gap the best.

So yes, the IQ4 was designed properly, without consulting the variables of what DIY'ers may have done right or wrong. We're not their market.
That's some fascinating information on battery charging! I'm sure as time goes on we will all become more experienced and knowledgeable when it comes it Lithium Ion technology. Who knows what it might look like in 20 years!
 
Well, having been though the same old discussions since 2009 or so, and many pretty yellow Winstons, blue GBH, gray Calbs, etc etc the same thing can be predicted because time isn't as tangible as measuring current or voltage:

Many projects by those just starting out will outlive their rated cycle life despite non-optimal charging in regards to time exposure. Or be replaced by another bank caused by higher demands.

It means that some myths, like charging AA's low and slow, will always persist. :)
 
Well, having been though the same old discussions since 2009 or so, and many pretty yellow Winstons, blue GBH, gray Calbs, etc etc the same thing can be predicted because time isn't as tangible as measuring current or voltage:

Many projects by those just starting out will outlive their rated cycle life despite non-optimal charging in regards to time exposure. Or be replaced by another bank caused by higher demands.

It means that some myths, like charging AA's low and slow, will always persist. :)
Haha Gotcha ?
 
Actually, you've given me a great idea about constructing a possible "upper-knee clock"!

Read this with the enthusiasm that Dave over at the EEVblog would do:

 
Actually, you've given me a great idea about constructing a possible "upper-knee clock"!

Read this with the enthusiasm that Dave over at the EEVblog would do:

Great idea! Then we could produce measurable results!
 
My 560 Ah battery bank of LiFePO4 was at 87% state of charge yesterday, mainly because I forgot to turn on the solar charge controller two weeks ago. I fired up the generator and watched my Victron BMV-712 through the Victron Connect app. The solar that I had already turned on was cranking out ~20 amps. I waited and waited and waited for the IOTA Engineering DLS-55 to do something. It just sat there. I flipped the AC breaker off/on, with no change. I then disconnected and reconnected the RJ11 plug for the IQ module. Bam! The converter cranked out around 50 amps after that.

I'm going to send the above observation to IOTA Engineering, but if anyone has any ideas I'm open to them.
 
Howdy,

I've used a number of Iota's to charge various battery packs over the years. (mostly AGM's)

When their Lithium IQ4 adapter I snagged one to charge a Battleborn.

I quickly decided it was a 'marketing dept' joke..... but after a lot of playing and looking at their manual....

Bulk mode (Rapid Blinking Led) will provide the wanted 14.7 volts....

The trick is to get it into Bulk Mode (Rapid Blinking Led).'

I can only assume the engineer's (or marketing dept) figured you would always disconnect your battery from the charger, after the battery has been charged.... Try it... charge the battery, disconnect it from the battery, power down the IOTA. Reconnect, power up and would be in Bulk mode.

OR....If you disconnect the cable between the Iota and IQ4 and then reconnect it, you will be in Bulk Mode (Rapid Blinking).

In my automated system, I use a relay in line with the IQ4 to break the connection in that cable, before starting the charge cycle.

I also monitor the the charging current and kill the Iota power when voltage gets to 14.6 or the current drops below 1 amp...

The Battleborn has been happy for almost 2 years.....

Enjoy....
 
I can only assume the engineer's (or marketing dept) figured you would always disconnect your battery from the charger, after the battery has been charged.... Try it... charge the battery, disconnect it from the battery, power down the IOTA. Reconnect, power up and would be in Bulk mode.

I think that pretty much describes my experience. It's like the IQ module goes to sleep and never wakes up unless it gets a reboot. If I could externally control the IQ module that might be OK, but I'm not interested in that much complexity. Plus, the IOTA converter is a stop gap until I get my Multiplus up and running.
 
Boondocker... I totally agree.

I've always liked Iota products. But it is a lame execution.

I'm retired, after a 35 year career as a contract firmware engineer and I can totally vision the marketing meeting where they brewed up these collection of modules.

But I've got a half dozen of these things floating around and basically they are a good, solid battery charger.

Also, I have never tried it with the Lithium module, but all the Iota's have an internal voltage adjustment. Usually a small green multiturn pot usually located in the front of the unit. Google it, seen a number of articles in the Solar-Electric forum and numerous boating forums.

That might help until you get to the next stage of your system...

Enjoy..


BTW.... All Electronics has some on sale.... 90 Amps of $125.....

https://www.allelectronics.com/item/bc-1290/13.4vdc-90a-power-supply/charger-used/1.html
 
The Multiplus is hanging on the wall. I need to create and connect all the cables and do the programming. The DC cables are the easy part.
 
Just a little tidbit I figured I'd add to this thread for reference. I had my old IOTA charger I wanted to repurpose for charging LFP 12v banks, and more recently I had purchased the IQ-LIFEPO module for it to upgrade from my existing IQ4 module (which was intended for lead acid charging profile).

Well I finally got around to installing it, and I learned that the IOTA charger I had, was equipped with the INTERNAL IQ4 functionality out of box, so mine did not have the RJ11 jack populated with the copper pins (and no external module attached to case), so how was I supposed to install my new IQ-LIFEPO module now?

So I pulled the cover off the IOTA charger, and found the built-in IQ4 is indeed a standalone module / board, mounted on the inside wall, right behind where an external IQ module would attach.

It had an internal cable connecting it to a 4-pin header on the main board. So I was able to remove the old module attached inside, install the new module onto the outside where it normal would go.

I cut off one RJ11 end off the new cord, poked the cut-end through the unpopulated RJ11 jack on the case, then cut the internal factory cable (which went to the original IQ4 module), the 3 wires being used (from the 4-pin header) had same color-code so it was easy to twist and soldier them together, with some heat shrink, put the cover back on, and I was off to the races...
 
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