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Is BIG BATTERY full of Crap??

This is the response I got from BigBattery to my question: "What is the low voltage disconnect of the BMS on the 24v 170Ah Power Battery?"

The voltage range for that battery is Voltage Range: 19.6 – 29.2V
so the BMS would disconnect at or around 19.2V
Hope that helps!

Thank you & Stay safe.

Sincerely,

BigBattery Team
 
This is the response I got from BigBattery to my question: "What is the low voltage disconnect of the BMS on the 24v 170Ah Power Battery?"

The voltage range for that battery is Voltage Range: 19.6 – 29.2V
so the BMS would disconnect at or around 19.2V
Hope that helps!

Thank you & Stay safe.

Sincerely,

BigBattery Team
Yah, no way in hell.

Makes sense, these guys sell batteries. It is not in their interest for batteries to last too long.
 
Here is a simple, independent battery box heater design that works well for me.

Notice that it operates completely independently from the rest of your system
View attachment 28118

Should I put this in resources?
What performance are you seeing from this heater? 20 watts heats up ??? size battery x degrees/hour?

I just bought my first 12V 100AH Big Battery and will be using it in the Adirondacks. Coldest temp around -36C. I have 600W of solar. In the winter, I probably only get 10% output or 60W. I'm thinking of adding a 2 pole relay to dump the solar to the heater when it's cold, but restore to charging the battery when warmed up. I'm concerned with the BMS sensor being ambient air temp instead of conducting to the battery pack, insulated from the air. The heaters could warm up the air in minutes, allowing the BMS to turn on before the batteries actually get warm. I may need to mount the thermostat switches to the batteries mass directly to get their temp.

It does seem like some cold charging with low amps is possible. At 60W, 12V, I'm only generating 5A. Maybe this low amperage would work even if the batteries are well below 0C. Paralleling the heaters and charging the battery would lessen the battery charging amps when the heater is on.
 
I just bought my first 12V 100AH Big Battery and will be using it in the Adirondacks. Coldest temp around -36C. I have 600W of solar. In the winter, I probably only get 10% output or 60W.

It does seem like some cold charging with low amps is possible. At 60W, 12V, I'm only generating 5A. Maybe this low amperage would work even if the batteries are well below 0C. Paralleling the heaters and charging the battery would lessen the battery charging amps when the heater is on.

On a clear winter's day you probably get much closer to 600W than 60W.

Even 60W is 0.05C for 1200 Wh battery.
In charts Dzl posted earlier, for one battery at -10C to 0C, max charge rate ranged from 0.05C to 0.10C depending on SoC.
At -15C to -10C, max charge rate ranged from 0.01C to 0.02C


In fact, 600W is 0.50C, and for that charge rate to be acceptable regardless of SoC ...
(for the one table "Gangfen" brand I'm looking at, the only one that allows any charging below 0 degrees C)

1) At no temperature is 0.50C acceptable above 95% SoC
2) Only for 15 degrees C to 45 degrees C is 0.50C charge rate acceptable at all SoC from 0% to 90%

Paralleling heaters and battery - would need diodes or other controls to avoid draining battery to run heater.

I suggest you follow whatever specs Big Battery gives for charging vs. temperature (they have man products, I can't find a spec for what you have right now, but I do see 0 degree to 55 degree C for one of their LiFePO4 products.)

It looks to me like your PV capacity, which can charge the battery at 0.5C, would be excessive if temperature dropped below 7 degrees C (for any SoC), would be excessive if SoC exceeded something like 60% to 90% depending on temperature.

How you could regulate charge current vs. SoC, I don't know. Toward the very top SoC, when charger switches from CC to CV, charge current would taper off. But middle of SoC (like between 60% to 90%), that isn't easy to determine based on voltage. It would take an intelligent BMS that counted coloumbs and communicated desired charge current to SCC. I think some BMS do perform that function, and some chargers follow those instructions.

To keep it simple and safely charge the battery, I would suggest increasing battery bank (or decreasing PV array size) for 0.2C max charge rate and allow charging only between 7 degrees C and 50 degrees C.

You could reduce peak output from a PV array in half without significantly reducing Wh/day captured by orienting half the panels at a 60 degree acute angle from the others. For instance, if two 300W panels totalling 600W, aim one panel at 8:00 AM sun and the other at 4:00 PM sun. That way, maximum PV panel area presented to the sun never exceeds a single panel, so output peaks at 300W but you get more hours production. With your 100 Ah 12V battery, this would still be 0.25C

Some LiFePO4 charts I see look like a CV setting of 14.0V, 3.5V per cell, would have charge current start to taper off prior to reaching 90% SoC (assuming cells remain in balance.)

I suggest switching PV production entirely off below 15 degrees C and using PV to heat the battery.

I don't have the exact charge data for your Big Battery, which may vary.
 
On a clear winter's day you probably get much closer to 600W than 60W.

Even 60W is 0.05C for 1200 Wh battery.
In charts Dzl posted earlier, for one battery at -10C to 0C, max charge rate ranged from 0.05C to 0.10C depending on SoC.
At -15C to -10C, max charge rate ranged from 0.01C to 0.02C


In fact, 600W is 0.50C, and for that charge rate to be acceptable regardless of SoC ...
(for the one table "Gangfen" brand I'm looking at, the only one that allows any charging below 0 degrees C)

1) At no temperature is 0.50C acceptable above 95% SoC
2) Only for 15 degrees C to 45 degrees C is 0.50C charge rate acceptable at all SoC from 0% to 90%

Paralleling heaters and battery - would need diodes or other controls to avoid draining battery to run heater.

I suggest you follow whatever specs Big Battery gives for charging vs. temperature (they have man products, I can't find a spec for what you have right now, but I do see 0 degree to 55 degree C for one of their LiFePO4 products.)

It looks to me like your PV capacity, which can charge the battery at 0.5C, would be excessive if temperature dropped below 7 degrees C (for any SoC), would be excessive if SoC exceeded something like 60% to 90% depending on temperature.

How you could regulate charge current vs. SoC, I don't know. Toward the very top SoC, when charger switches from CC to CV, charge current would taper off. But middle of SoC (like between 60% to 90%), that isn't easy to determine based on voltage. It would take an intelligent BMS that counted coloumbs and communicated desired charge current to SCC. I think some BMS do perform that function, and some chargers follow those instructions.

To keep it simple and safely charge the battery, I would suggest increasing battery bank (or decreasing PV array size) for 0.2C max charge rate and allow charging only between 7 degrees C and 50 degrees C.

You could reduce peak output from a PV array in half without significantly reducing Wh/day captured by orienting half the panels at a 60 degree acute angle from the others. For instance, if two 300W panels totalling 600W, aim one panel at 8:00 AM sun and the other at 4:00 PM sun. That way, maximum PV panel area presented to the sun never exceeds a single panel, so output peaks at 300W but you get more hours production. With your 100 Ah 12V battery, this would still be 0.25C

Some LiFePO4 charts I see look like a CV setting of 14.0V, 3.5V per cell, would have charge current start to taper off prior to reaching 90% SoC (assuming cells remain in balance.)

I suggest switching PV production entirely off below 15 degrees C and using PV to heat the battery.

I don't have the exact charge data for your Big Battery, which may vary.
I'm thinking of starting a "LiFePO" battery heater thread. I didn't find one. This info appears to be universal, not just Big Battery. I'm now thinking about NOT charging when it's cold. I didn't figure in that someone could go into the camper at night, -36C and start the generator. That would apply full 60 to 80 Amps to the batteries. That's not good.

You don't get full power out of solar in the winter. The ratings are normal irradiance at 1000W/ square meter. NREL.gov shows normal and horizontal solar irradiance. Basically, if its cold, the sun isn't heating. You will not get 1000W/square meter.

I am only getting about 10% of the panels rating. The panels are on a tilt, 23 degrees from vertical. In the Adirondacks, there are tall spruces. I'd need to clear cut about 40 acres of trees to allow solar noon sun. I don't rotate the panels to track the sun but it's only up for a few hours.

I am only trying to keep the batteries charged during freezing temps. I have moisture problems at camp with condensation. I have a setup that heats the camper a few degrees warmer than the outside to avoid this. ie the heat will only run above freezing for a few minutes in the mornings. The amount of solar I get is directly correlated to the amount of power used running the heater. When it's dead cold winter, there is no condensation, I'm just idling the solar and keeping the batteries charged for the days it's sunny and above freezing.

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/u...p-control-battery-heater-etc.3784/post-206790
 
I'm thinking of starting a "LiFePO" battery heater thread. I didn't find one.

Search harder.



My write-up:

 
Search harder.



My write-up:

Thanks Jim,

I'll jump on your thread to keep this on topic.

Carl
 
Kind of odd to suggest -20°C charging when the BMS is supposed to, based on the specification sheet, cut off the charge at -4°F? Also, be aware that "operating temperature" is not the same as "charging temperature" on many specification sheets..
Search Will's YT vids dated for before the leak...It may have been one on comparing a few affordable drop ins. This whole thing started when a temp sensor did not shut down the BMS as expected on his test/teardown of it.. He reached out then.... and here we are...
 
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