Is this Sol-Ark setup possible?

[moonlight23]

I’m planning on building a 48v solar system, but tied to the grid to dump excess output or pull from when needed. I’m in southern California, so unfortunately the only approved option is the Sol-Ark AIO inverters. Here’s what I’d like to accomplish below.

when sun is out:
1. power house with PV
2. excess solar charges batteries
3. sell remaining to grid when batteries full

no sun:
1. power house with batteries
2. pull from grid when batteries drained to ~30%

Parts and specs:
- Sol-Ark 15k inverter
- 6x EG4-LL (30.72 kWh total) battery
- 33x 400w solar panels (13.2kw total), not sure which panels yet

I use about 10.2 kwh per day. Assuming 5 hours of sunlight, I would only need about 2kw solar array. My main question is, would the Sol-Ark inverter be able to accomplish what I want? Any other suggestions are welcomed!

 

[moonlight23]

Additional detail and questions:

I’m limited on SW and SE facing roof area. I can only fit 33 panels max. I’ve oversized the array to later add central A/C, electric vehicle, and electric water heater. Currently the most needy appliance is the induction stovetop, which is 240v at 40amps max.

1. Is better to buy AC or DC panels for this case? 2-story house, no shade issues
2. The EG4-LL battery is not UL-listed, but the EG4-LiFePower4 is. Do I need to choose different battery to pass inspection?
3. Do I need a 2nd inverter for this kind of load?
4. Any recommended contractors in San Diego area that won’t price-gouge? I need help mounting PV panels to roof only, I will attempt to do all other things myself.

 

[Ampster]

I’m in southern California, so unfortunately the only approved option is the Sol-Ark AIO inverters.

Who is telling you that? The CEC has an approved list and there are hundreds of approved inverters.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I’m planning on building a 48v solar system, but tied to the grid to dump excess output or pull from when needed. I’m in southern California, so unfortunately the only approved option is the Sol-Ark AIO inverters. Here’s what I’d like to accomplish below.

when sun is out:
1. power house with PV
2. excess solar charges batteries
3. sell remaining to grid when batteries full

no sun:
1. power house with batteries
2. pull from grid when batteries drained to ~30%

Parts and specs:
- Sol-Ark 15k inverter
- 6x EG4-LL (30.72 kWh total) battery
- 33x 400w solar panels (13.2kw total), not sure which panels yet

I use about 10.2 kwh per day. Assuming 5 hours of sunlight, I would only need about 2kw solar array. My main question is, would the Sol-Ark inverter be able to accomplish what I want? Any other suggestions are welcomed!

What you are saying will work but it seems ODD that Sol-ark would be the only approved vendor.

I’m sure there are cheaper options unless you just Like Sol-ark.
I use them and like them but I doubt they are the only ones approved especially in California.

 

[moonlight23]

Who is telling you that? The CEC has an approved list and there are hundreds of approved inverters.

What you are saying will work but it seems ODD that Sol-ark would be the only approved vendor.

I’m sure there are cheaper options unless you just Like Sol-ark.
I use them and like them but I doubt they are the only ones approved especially in California.

My research has been limited so far, but I got this from Will's website:

"...if you wish to also be connected to grid, and/or backfeed the grid with excess power that your system creates, you need to spend some money and get the right product for the job. You will need a UL listed device that can do everything. Currently, there is only one device on the market that does this."

Are there other recommendations? I don't mind spending the money for a Sol-Ark, but preferably a cheaper alternative that accomplishes the same goals if there are comparable inverters.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

My research has been limited so far, but I got this from Will's website:

"...if you wish to also be connected to grid, and/or backfeed the grid with excess power that your system creates, you need to spend some money and get the right product for the job. You will need a UL listed device that can do everything. Currently, there is only one device on the market that does this."

Are there other recommendations? I don't mind spending the money for a Sol-Ark, but preferably a cheaper alternative that accomplishes the same goals if there are comparable inverters.

I know for sure the Sol-ark is UL certified but I have to assume there are others as well.

I have 2 Sol-ark 12ks and all Of the TOU settings make it pretty amazing what you can accomplish but that’s $13k just for 2 inverters.

Lots of if then situation you can do.

I personally love mine but it’s up to you..

 

[Hedges]

SolArk may have some particular programmable features useful for peak shaving.

SMA Sunny Boy Storage is marketed for similar application, but uses expensive batteries.
Sunny Island will do some things.

I don't recommend necessarily using battery when no sun. May be better to use grid, and use battery when utility rates are highest.

I use about 10.2 kwh per day. Assuming 5 hours of sunlight, I would only need about 2kw solar array.

Correct on the system size.
SolArk is far to big and expensive for that.

What you NEED to power when grid is down? A small system for UPS and maybe PV could take care of that.

GT PV could be most cost-effective. If credits for export are less than charge for using power (by not too large a multiple), just put in more PV.
e.g. if you are credited $0.15/kWh when the sun shines and charged $0.45/kWh in the evening when you need power, put in 6kW of PV. It is cheaper than batteries.

A SolArk is what, $5k to $8k? before PV panels or batteries.
A 2kW GT PV system is $2000 worth of hardware.

 

[robby]

The Sol-Ark is a great Inverter and can do everything you outlined in your plan.
There are a lot of Inverters on the CEC list other than Sol-Ark but I am not sure if there is another model that can set up time of use for house usage of batteries and Sell back to the grid based based on time of day and a set amount of power.

The major issue I see is that your equipment choices are a bit mismatched or you got some numbers wrong. A Sol-Ark 12K can do easily deliver 10KWh per day, I am using at least 50KWh per day with a 12K and it will power the that electric stove but are you sure your only use 10KWh per day?
You need to know what is the Maximum amount of power you might be drawing at any one point in time when most of the things are running on a normal day.

The second issue is the amount of panels, it cannot be 2KW of panels but the 13.2KW your thinking of buying would work fine with the 12K unit.

I would not recommend EG4LL batteries, there has been way to much drama on the forum with EG4 batteries and they recently changed the EG4LL and removed the circuit breaker. I would look at SOK 48V batteries instead but I am not sure if you can use those batteries on a Grid Tie system in CA. I know that there are a number of UL listed batteries that are used in most CA installs. I use Fortress power eFlex batteries and I know they can be used in CA as well as there eVault battery. I think that ARK batteries and BYD are also used a lot by CA Installers.

 

[moonlight23]

Thank you for the thoughtful replies!

Perhaps it’s better for me to go with a cheaper grid-tied inverter without batteries, plus a separate smaller system in case the grid has outages as @Hedges has pointed out . Although, I’d also like the simplicity and flexibility of having 1 large Sol-Ark system that does everything.

The Sol-Ark is a great Inverter and can do everything you outlined in your plan.
There are a lot of Inverters on the CEC list other than Sol-Ark but I am not sure if there is another model that can set up time of use for house usage of batteries and Sell back to the grid based based on time of day and a set amount of power.

The major issue I see is that your equipment choices are a bit mismatched or you got some numbers wrong. A Sol-Ark 12K can do easily deliver 10KWh per day, I am using at least 50KWh per day with a 12K and it will power the that electric stove but are you sure your only use 10KWh per day?
You need to know what is the Maximum amount of power you might be drawing at any one point in time when most of the things are running on a normal day.

I would not recommend EG4LL batteries, there has been way to much drama on the forum with EG4 batteries and they recently changed the EG4LL and removed the circuit breaker. I would look at SOK 48V batteries instead but I am not sure if you can use those batteries on a Grid Tie system in CA. I know that there are a number of UL listed batteries that are used in most CA installs. I use Fortress power eFlex batteries and I know they can be used in CA as well as there eVault battery. I think that ARK batteries and BYD are also used a lot by CA Installers.

Yes I’m only using about 10kwh per day average. The induction stove top and hair dryer use a lot of power, but they’re on less than 15min a day. Only 1 fridge, and all lights are LED. My only concern is that when I add central A/C and a heat pump water heater in the future, combined with the induction stove top, will a Sol-Ark 15k be able to handle the initial startup load if all 3 are in use at the same time? The giant inverter isn’t necessarily for the daily KWH but for the large 240v appliances in use at the same time.

I will look into SOK batteries instead of EG4-LL! Although, I don’t think these will pass inspection in CA. Hypothetically speaking, can I initially have grid-tied without batteries, pass inspection, then add non-UL listed batteries later? Asking for a friend

 

[Quattrohead]

Heat pump water heater only uses about 1/5th the power of a resistive heater and a variable output AC like the Mr Cool split and all mini-splits ramp up on startup, so the inverter should handle your loads fine.
That is a lot of money to spend for your current use, but long term it's more about not relying on increasingly flacky utilities.
BTW look at the lead salt silicate batteries that watts247 has and see if your AHJ will treat them as lead acid batteries, no UL listings required for them and most of the advantages of LA and lifepo4

 

[Solar Guppy]

What you install, it has to be permitted which means you are going to need to have UL9540 listed equipment, the EG4 stuff is NOT UL9540

You have other listed options if you want Storage, Solis 5G RHI HVES is what have with a BYD batterybox HV, other options: SMA Sunnyboy / Island, Schneider Electric XW, Outback Radian, Sol-Ark, check with those manufacture for UL9540 batteries. Enphase Encharge, Tesla Powerwall have the battery included and are UL9540, and new entrant is Goodwe which finally released its's storage product which uses the BYD BatteryBox HVL.

DYI a UL9540 listed energy storage system is possible, but it requires significant effort to learn all the codes requirements. It is also likely you will find each installer has their favorite and you go with what they are using for storage solutions as it is extensive the knowledge required to do these systems and meet codes and they pick and sell one as they don't have the talent to be experts in different manufactures solutions.

 

[Ampster]

Currently, there is only one device on the market that does this."

If that is Will’s quote, he does not say that device is the SolArk. Perhaps he is referring to the system including UL listed batteries and that may have been correct at that moment for a very specific set of features or capacity.

Are there other recommendations? I don't mind spending the money for a Sol-Ark, but preferably a cheaper alternative that accomplishes the same goals if there are comparable inverters

Yes, Outback has the Mojave that integrates with a UL listed battery. I don't know how that compares on price but just go to the CEC list and see for yourself? Compare features and don't make a decision in a vacuum..

 

[Ampster]

Deleted duplicate text

 

[SYKSolar]

SolArk may have some particular programmable features useful for peak shaving.

SMA Sunny Boy Storage is marketed for similar application, but uses expensive batteries.
Sunny Island will do some things.

I don't recommend necessarily using battery when no sun. May be better to use grid, and use battery when utility rates are highest.



Correct on the system size.
SolArk is far to big and expensive for that.

What you NEED to power when grid is down? A small system for UPS and maybe PV could take care of that.

GT PV could be most cost-effective. If credits for export are less than charge for using power (by not too large a multiple), just put in more PV.
e.g. if you are credited $0.15/kWh when the sun shines and charged $0.45/kWh in the evening when you need power, put in 6kW of PV. It is cheaper than batteries.

A SolArk is what, $5k to $8k? before PV panels or batteries.
A 2kW GT PV system is $2000 worth of hardware.

Make sense to use more panels, imaging u sells 3KW @ 0.15/kw and then used their 1 KW @ 0.45/KW. That breaks even.

 

[Hedges]

Yup, and if I add hardware today, it costs me $0.025/kWh to make power from PV, to be credited at $0.15/kWh. So I only pay $0.075 for power fed to the grid in the morning, get in exchange power I would otherwise pay $0.45 for in the evening.

That's NEM 1.0 and rates I had a couple years ago. Today 2:1 not 3:1. Tomorrow with NEM 3.0 likely nothing works (other than batteries, or use power while the sun shines.)

 

[robby]

I read the other day that Outback has scrapped the TOU feature on the SkyBox. I was reading that it never worked properly and they just decided to remove it from the next update. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Ampster]

I read the other day that Outback has scrapped the TOU feature on the SkyBox. I was reading that it never worked properly and they just decided to remove it from the next update. Can anyone confirm this?

Not yet because I have not seen new release. I can confirm it never worked very good and that is why I use Self Consumption Mode. The other rumor is the Skybox is being discontinued in favor of the new Mojave.

 

[robby]

Not yet because I have not seen new release. I can confirm it never worked very good and that is why I use Self Consumption Mode. The other rumor is the Skybox is being discontinued in favor of the new Mojave.

Interesting news. I will try and see if anybody has a review video on the Mojave.
I really like the SkyBox, it was my second choice after Sol-Ark but the prices vs features pushed me towards Sol-Ark.

 

[Shimmy]

Get a quote from Tesla. They will meet your needs, be cheapest, and safe. Compare that to the parts cost to try to DIY; you will be surprised at just how little you save for a lot of hassle.

DIY makes better sense when your needs are more complicated.

 

[Tomas Ondra]

I’m planning on building a 48v solar system, but tied to the grid to dump excess output or pull from when needed. I’m in southern California, so unfortunately the only approved option is the Sol-Ark AIO inverters. Here’s what I’d like to accomplish below.

when sun is out:
1. power house with PV
2. excess solar charges batteries
3. sell remaining to grid when batteries full

no sun:
1. power house with batteries
2. pull from grid when batteries drained to ~30%

Parts and specs:
- Sol-Ark 15k inverter
- 6x EG4-LL (30.72 kWh total) battery
- 33x 400w solar panels (13.2kw total), not sure which panels yet

I use about 10.2 kwh per day. Assuming 5 hours of sunlight, I would only need about 2kw solar array. My main question is, would the Sol-Ark inverter be able to accomplish what I want? Any other suggestions are welcomed!

I have just recently installed a system in Texas that does exactly what you want.
The system is:
2x 12KW sol-ark's
2x 30KW LifePo4 batteries with 2xJK BMS's (i built them)
22 KW PV south-facing roof

The Sol-ark's running in parallel, and batteries are in parallel as well.
House runs all day on solar power and recharges the batteries, at night runs the whole house just on the batteries. The grid is only for a backup, if the grid goes down, there is also a whole house generator controlled through the Sol-ark.
Still having so much extra power, I helped the customer to fill out a net-metering agreement and sell the extra power for cloudy days.
The house has 2 AC units, 3 water heaters, 2 wells, a barn, an extra garage, etc.

Good luck!