diy solar

diy solar

Is using a Switch mode Power Supply as a Charger A bad idea?

That's very interesting. The noises really bother me ?

I connected a 400w 18v switching power supply to a 30a pwm SCC and it worked perfectly for 5 mins and then died.
That's interesting, the PWM SCC is based on switching max volts and current from the source on and off as quickly as possible that then achieves a so called ideal (average) evel to charge the battery? The major problem here is there are huge current spikes when the PWM duty is active, this brings the overall efficancy down compared to an mppt controller that has a very high frequency buck regulator modulating the V/I to match the battery. I must admit, iv never used PWM to charge a battery from an SMPS. I'm an elecronics engineer with over 40 years practical experience designing and building electronic systems. I've done many buck, boost regulator systems but I can only provide theory as to what the loads are are on an SMPS feeding a PWM SCC then feeding a LIFEPO4 pack, I'm guessing the SMPS can get stressed out ass opposed to a high frequency buck converter doing the job of precision V/I regulation? Hope this makes sense ?
 
Last edited:
That's very interesting. The noises really bother me ?

I connected a 400w 18v switching power supply to a 30a pwm SCC and it worked perfectly for 5 mins and then died.
Were you drawing 30A from the power supply?
Your 400W 18V can deliver about 22A. What kind of OV/OC protection does your power supply have?
It sounds like your power supply failed to protect itself.
1675452820346.png
 
More likely the PWM controller died, not the powersupply.

the powersupply was able to provide more power than the fets of the PWM could handle, frying it.

Using a powersupply as charger can if
- It has CC, constant current limiting
- It has backfeed protection
 
More likely the PWM controller died, not the powersupply.

the powersupply was able to provide more power than the fets of the PWM could handle, frying it.

Using a powersupply as charger can if
- It has CC, constant current limiting
- It has backfeed protection
Non off the SMPS we are discussing have CC but do have a crude form of SC protection. Back feed protection is already built in (see the schematic posted a few threads back) basically it's a half wave rectifier fed from the isolated side of the main transformer.
 
More likely the PWM controller died, not the powersupply.

the powersupply was able to provide more power than the fets of the PWM could handle, frying it.

Using a powersupply as charger can if
- It has CC, constant current limiting
- It has backfeed protection
Pollenface PS can only supply 22A, so trying to draw more than that the OC protection circuit should have tripped.
 
I have been charging a lead battery for 6 months, with a 30 amp LED strip power supply, my battery is 500 amps

the power supply is connected in parallel with the MPPT controller, on the power supply set 13.1 volts to MPPT 13.6 volts, if there is not enough solar energy and the voltage on the battery drops to 13.1, the power supply starts adding the missing

I plan to do this in my new system for 24 volts and with a lifepo4 battery
 
I have been charging a lead battery for 6 months, with a 30 amp LED strip power supply, my battery is 500 amps

the power supply is connected in parallel with the MPPT controller, on the power supply set 13.1 volts to MPPT 13.6 volts, if there is not enough solar energy and the voltage on the battery drops to 13.1, the power supply starts adding the missing

I plan to do this in my new system for 24 volts and with a lifepo4 battery
Is it constant current power supply which is made for driving LED?
 
I think i have killed maybe 3 or 4 smps using them as battery charging sources. But, i feel nearly useless in diagnosing my own failures because i buy the absolute cheapest things i can get my hands on, use them in ways they aren't intended to be used, and don't understand enough about how they work to diagnose the failure modes. I'm just screwing around! I have bought at this point probably nearly a dozen of the ~300-600w form factor 'meanwell knockoffs' in the ~$12-40 range. Of the ones that have failed, the actual most common failure is the NTC on the input exploding (like, case splitting, white powder everywhere) but in those cases i have mostly just bypassed it unless it failed immediately in the exchange window. The 2nd most common failure is blown fets in the back of the case (i have looked at smps block diagrams but still feel unsure how to correctly ID these) in this area:
1675520306355.png
And i think only once have i blown fets in the front/side area:
1675520339205.png
One time i smoked a large resistor, which i thought was odd. So i can't really identify any pattern to the failures other than that i assume most of them are related to a lack of current limiting since the only thing that is going to physically 'ventilate' a sealed piece like a fet or resistor is the local expansion of material, caused by heating, caused by overcurrent or lack of sufficient cooling for an otherwise acceptable amount of current. That's how my brain works it out, anyway.

So this is me admitting that im a bull in a china shop over here with this stuff. I don't feel bad about it, that's why i buy the cheapest things i can, because this is 'learning while playing', not seriously studying a topic with intent to do anything important for anyone else, for money, etc.

As far as the PWM sccs, i have broken a few of the extremely cheap ones, again always blown fets. I repaired a couple by harvesting matching fets from others and fully 'populating' all the empty fet spots in the boards to turn them into the higher rated versions of the design (if that is the only difference?), and that worked, although it is a silly thing to do.

At this point the only PWM scc i am using with SMPS as input is actually a fairly expensive ($70) and bulky piece that is rated for 80a and actually has a selectable current limit. I started with a 20a model of it because i noticed the selectable current limit feature and wanted to test the theory that just limiting a SMPS below its rated current would make it live 'forever' while pwm'ing into a battery, and that seemed to basically work out to be true with the caveat that forever is i've only been doing this stuff for like 7 months. So i bought the 80a model, and currently have 4x30a psu's paralleled into its PV ports, charging ~460ah of lifepo4 for the past month or so (it has existed in smaller form with less PSU hooked to it for the past 6 months or so). It is a big dumb setup and i am not calling it a good setup or even claiming that im not slowly murdering the lifepo4. But at that point my components are not failing 'quickly', so i feel like current limiting the PSUs makes them not die quickly while being PWMd. On the other hand, I also have PSUs that are hooked straight to battery and NOT pwm'd and they seem to live just fine putting out their max current rating continuously. So i think the PWM'ing is having some effect on the control scheme of PSUs and making them briefly overcurrent themselves during pulses which gradually physically damages the fets.. Weak theory!

As far as whether it hurts the lifepo4, i think the main thing is that when the lifepo4 is near full and cannot accept as much current, it also cannot clamp down voltage and can be pushed up to damaging voltages, 4.0v/cell etc. So if you have your PSUs set to something which equates to >4.0v/cell then yes, unless you are using some sort of shunt-based scheme to actually interrupt the psu>battery connection then when it gets close to full the voltage of the 'pulses' will rise to cell-damaging levels. However, if your PSUs are set to an acceptable voltage, then the only question that remains which i could answer for my dang self if i scoped it, is does the PWM result in the PSU voltage spiking to cell-damaging levels? If not i think my current setup can work long term. If so, then the followup question would be: would hooking the PSU output to my lead bank through several diodes in series, cause any brief voltage spikes to be 'clamped' and diverted harmlessly into the lead? If the answer is yes, great. If the answer is no, then i would have to do a generally smart thing and use a shunt to implement charge termination based on tail current, at which point the PWM SCC serves no function other than current limiting the PSUs which they may not even need if they weren't being PWM'd!


LOL at everything i do, what a mess. :ROFLMAO: This is what an auto mechanic learning about electronics without actually studying electronics, looks like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mib
Not wanting to stir the pot here, but almost all DC PSU's and DC-DC converters of any kind are "switch mode" (as you've already stated, there are various designs). Chargers, wall warts, solar charge controllers (except for very old non-PWM analog ones) etc.

It's the only way they can be made small, cheap, light and meet mandated efficiency requirements.

If you look carefully enough with a not-crappy scope (which can have its own switching noise), you will always see some component of the switching frequency on the output. Nothing is perfect.

The switching frequency is usually in the kHz range, and very low, so *most* (not all) connected equipment doesn't see it.
 
Hi I'm building an S4 battery the moment my cells arrive and later on this year an S16. Most of the time I will not be using solar panels to charge these batteries because the S4 280Ah Eve battery is for UPS system and Camping sometimes while the S16 Eve 32Ah will be in an escooter. how much ripple can BMS's tolerate from a power supply or would the battery itself buffer enough of it out like a Capacitor even if the cells are small 32AH sized ones but with new like internal resistances?
Could I limit charge Current by Adjusting the supply voltage with an Amp Meter as well?
I was thinking of doing what this guy has done in the video. With the S4 bms connected as well as it being protected with a 30A inline fuse or lower and a 140A (13V or higher) rated DC breaker.
Can small 32Ah EVE cells be stacked on there side 2 or 3 high and withstand the escooter's vibration and bumps?
Charger
I'm using the JBD BMS because it looks awesome It looks like the same bluetooth graphical interface the Overkill BMS.
BMS
Thanks in Advance.
I use switch mode power supplies for charging. Get one that has voltage just over your charge voltage. Eg 15V for 4S or 60V for 16S. The maximum current should be less than what your cells and BMS are rated for. I bought a 100A one that would actually do 140A which was more than my BMS could handle. My 60V one actually has a current limiter as well as voltage adjuster. You can even get them with volt and current display. All dearer than the one shown on the video which is a basic workhorse, probably 30-40A at 14V

£77.07 | 1500WThe Current And Voltage Of Switching Power Supply Are Adjustable, With Sufficient Power Digital Display Snd Countless
 
If the power supply does not have adjustable current limiting you will likely damage power supply. It will likely limit current to a maximum but this is putting power supply under a lot of stress, and it will likely overheat.

There are flyback switching power supplies with CV/CC adjustments.


View attachment 133180
It does get hot when it runs at maximum currents. But I’ve not had an overheat where one has broken.
 
If the power supply does not have adjustable current limiting you will likely damage power supply. It will likely limit current to a maximum but this is putting power supply under a lot of stress, and it will likely overheat.

There are flyback switching power supplies with CV/CC adjustments.


View attachment 133180
That looks the business. Here is one I'm looking to buy for a lab power supply/charger. 0 to 60V, 18A, wifi, graphing function.

 
That looks the business. Here is one I'm looking to buy for a lab power supply/charger. 0 to 60V, 18A, wifi, graphing function.

It doesnt matter so much at the higher voltages but check the terminals if you are planning to run at high amps. Sometimes they are just 3 small screws that you will struggle to to get 6mm2 wires on to.
 
Back
Top