Issues with 18KPV charging powerpro from AC

[Jdcarrol]

Hello, I’d like to seek this community’s advice as to why my 18KPV is not properly charging. I’ve been working with signature solar (@SignatureSolarJess ) for a couple months now. They always take my call and always respond to email, but I feel like I’m just sent is circles with no progress.

What I’m trying to do: I’m trying to deep cycle my EG4 PowerPro batter by completely draining it to 46V and charging it to 54+ ~56V 5 times while in lead acid
Why am I doing this: When I work in Lithium Ion and work via SOC the 18KPV switches over to AC bypass way early with plenty of voltage left as the SOC and voltage are misaligned.
What am I doing：I’ve flipped my PV DC breakers so they provide no input, as the PV will charge the battery up before the battery is fully depleted. I have AC input into the 18KPV. I I have it set to begin charging from AC when voltage is 46v and stop at 56 volts; however, the inverter will charge the battery from 46 to 48~49 volts and stop. This results it the battery carrying the load until it’s back down to 46v OR it just flips to AC bypass.
What I’m trying to achieve: I have a 2nd powerpro battery and Signature Solar advises for the battery to be in Li Io and use SOC so the batteries can communicate better and be aligned, but I can’t have my 1st powerpro in SOC because it is way off from the Voltage.
What does seem to be working: When my PV is on, the PV+single powerpro in lead acid working via voltage works great, but this isn’t a lead acid, it’s Li Io and it’s becoming concerning that it’s been months and SS+me haven’t been able to figure it out. I’m just curious if next steps is a warranty claim.

Any thoughts @FilterGuy ?

I’ll attach an image of today’s data and my settings. Any and all help would be appreciated.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

All of the above is very confusing and sound strongly like a mismatch of expectation an actual.

I can’t have my 1st powerpro in SOC because it is way off from the Voltage.

Can you give examples and why you come to this conclusion?

 

[Jdcarrol]

All of the above is very confusing and sound strongly like a mismatch of expectation an actual.



Can you give examples and why you come to this conclusion?

Sorry for the confusion @sunshine_eggo , when I’m in SOC we have stop discharge SOC at 20%, but the when it’s at that percentage the power pro voltage voltage is at 52v.

I may switch the batter back to Li io so I can show the primary symptom more easily.

 

[Jdcarrol]

All of the above is very confusing and sound strongly like a mismatch of expectation an actual.



Can you give examples and why you come to this conclusion?

@sunshine_eggo , could I ask for your advice/thoughts on the current setting? Right now for some reason the inverter in running off of AC where I believe my settings are such that the battery has priority with AC charging.

Right now the battery is reading as 47.3v but SOC is 52%. The eg4 monitoring app says the system is in standby. I don’t know why.

I want to also share that signature solar has been incredibly responsive and supportive; even helping with even though my equipment was purchased via solar sovereign. It’s just I bet they are very busy and it’s hard for them to remember everything they’ve suggested I tried. So I thought to ask the experts on this site where there is a continuous thread of notes and documentation I can provide too.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Sorry for the confusion @sunshine_eggo , when I’m in SOC we have stop discharge SOC at 20%, but the when it’s at that percentage the power pro voltage voltage is at 52v.

Have you verified that all 16 cells are around 3.25V at that point? The mismatch could be as little as 10%, but if you have a single cell at notably lower voltage, it may adjust SoC accordingly.

@sunshine_eggo , could I ask for your advice/thoughts on the current setting? Right now for some reason the inverter in running off of AC where I believe my settings are such that the battery has priority with AC charging.

I do not have intimate familiarity with the EG4 18KPV. I've browsed the manual and participated in some troubleshooting threads.

Right now the battery is reading as 47.3v but SOC is 52%. The eg4 monitoring app says the system is in standby. I don’t know why.

BMS can often require several cycles before SoC is correct.

Are you regularly achieving at least 56.8V for 30+ minutes most days?

I want to also share that signature solar has been incredibly responsive and supportive; even helping with even though my equipment was purchased via solar sovereign. It’s just I bet they are very busy and it’s hard for them to remember everything they’ve suggested I tried. So I thought to ask the experts on this site where there is a continuous thread of notes and documentation I can provide too.

Glad to hear they're making an effort. I'm definitely not an expert on this and most systems, so you're getting what you paid for with me.

 

[BKY2003]

Has SS said if a chargverter would work for what you are trying to accomplish?

 

[BKY2003]

If you put a multimeter on the battery terminals in the EG4 18Kpv, does the DC voltage match the battery BMS or the display on the 18Kpv?
@fnnwizard do you have any ideas on this problem? thanks

 

[BKY2003]

Just to make sure it’s not an EG4 18Kpv problem does everything work properly it you disconnect the battery with the lower voltage? And only use one powerpro.

 

[fnnwizard]

Hello, I’d like to seek this community’s advice as to why my 18KPV is not properly charging. I’ve been working with signature solar (@SignatureSolarJess ) for a couple months now. They always take my call and always respond to email, but I feel like I’m just sent is circles with no progress.

What I’m trying to do: I’m trying to deep cycle my EG4 PowerPro batter by completely draining it to 46V and charging it to 54+ ~56V 5 times while in lead acid
Why am I doing this: When I work in Lithium Ion and work via SOC the 18KPV switches over to AC bypass way early with plenty of voltage left as the SOC and voltage are misaligned.
What am I doing：I’ve flipped my PV DC breakers so they provide no input, as the PV will charge the battery up before the battery is fully depleted. I have AC input into the 18KPV. I I have it set to begin charging from AC when voltage is 46v and stop at 56 volts; however, the inverter will charge the battery from 46 to 48~49 volts and stop. This results it the battery carrying the load until it’s back down to 46v OR it just flips to AC bypass.
What I’m trying to achieve: I have a 2nd powerpro battery and Signature Solar advises for the battery to be in Li Io and use SOC so the batteries can communicate better and be aligned, but I can’t have my 1st powerpro in SOC because it is way off from the Voltage.
What does seem to be working: When my PV is on, the PV+single powerpro in lead acid working via voltage works great, but this isn’t a lead acid, it’s Li Io and it’s becoming concerning that it’s been months and SS+me haven’t been able to figure it out. I’m just curious if next steps is a warranty claim.

Any thoughts @FilterGuy ?

I’ll attach an image of today’s data and my settings. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Yes, we need to see the individual cell Voltages for both packs.

IMO, the best way to run your system is in Lithium mode but under Voltage, not soc. This way you can really control how the system interacts and can at least see Max and Min cell V in the data history.

If all your firmware is up to date for both 18 and batts, you can see individual cell V in the the monitor too.

If you can download the Weekly Data History for when the issues happened and post it or dm me, it would help a lot. It'll have some private info on it and up to you if you want to remove that part. You'll need to just add .txt to the file name to post or dm.

Otherwise, a screen capture of the Data page to show all the battery info columns.

So I would set your system to work with Comms (lithium mode) with Voltage, with max Voltage settings to 54V and Minimum to 48V for now. I'm hoping it's just an SOC calc error and not some way off imbalance between cells. The first would be relatively easy to fix, the latter not as easy.

Lastly, is there a reason why you need to set charge rates so high? Do you need to get those batts charged up in 3 hrs if from 0 SOC?
If not needed, I would go up to 150A (=75A for each pack) on the dcAmps.

I read in here about people fully charging their batts by noon and wonder if they realize that is doing more harm than good if they can also fullfill requirements if charging is done by 3-4pm (winter) instead.

I always recommend for users to use PV to charge instead of AC if possible, unless expected bad weather or for emergency backup.
Use the AC to power loads and wait for sun to charge batts = running in bypass mode. I do it by running on AC charge mode with minimal AC power.

But if you need to AC charge, you can do that over a longer period of time ( I think all day for you since I assume you have same electric rates thoroughout the day)? If so, set AC charge power to something like 4kW.

Ok, send us your data .

 

[Jdcarrol]

Have you verified that all 16 cells are around 3.25V at that point? The mismatch could be as little as 10%, but if you have a single cell at notably lower voltage, it may adjust SoC accordingly.



I do not have intimate familiarity with the EG4 18KPV. I've browsed the manual and participated in some troubleshooting threads.



BMS can often require several cycles before SoC is correct.

Are you regularly achieving at least 56.8V for 30+ minutes most days?



Glad to hear they're making an effort. I'm definitely not an expert on this and most systems, so you're getting what you paid for with me.

Your advise in threads previously have been very helpful, and someone once told me you can’t fire volunteers, so I welcome and am grateful for your ideas/guidance. I regularly get to 56V when I have PV charging it, but my quite a bit of PV so batteries don’t fully drain when PV is on and because AC isn’t charging batteries fully I’m not able to get the full charge-to-drain cycles.

 

[Jdcarrol]

Has SS said if a chargverter would work for what you are trying to accomplish?

They haven’t mentioned that, is using a charverter a permanent thing or just for this particular exercise? I thought the eg418kpv to eg4 powerpro didn’t require it.

 

[Jdcarrol]

If you put a multimeter on the battery terminals in the EG4 18Kpv, does the DC voltage match the battery BMS or the display on the 18Kpv?
@fnnwizard do you have any ideas on this problem? thanks

I haven’t tried this yet, I will certainly do so tomorrow! Stay tuned.

 

[Jdcarrol]

Just to make sure it’s not an EG4 18Kpv problem does everything work properly it you disconnect the battery with the lower voltage? And only use one powerpro.

I only have one powerpro connected, I haven’t installed the 2nd in parallel because I was informed I need to get the first battery working properly in Li io and SOC setting first. When two batteries work together they will work as efficiently as the least efficient one or so I’ve been guided which makes sense too.

 

[Jdcarrol]

Yes, we need to see the individual cell Voltages for both packs.

IMO, the best way to run your system is in Lithium mode but under Voltage, not soc. This way you can really control how the system interacts and can at least see Max and Min cell V in the data history.

If all your firmware is up to date for both 18 and batts, you can see individual cell V in the the monitor too.

If you can download the Weekly Data History for when the issues happened and post it or dm me, it would help a lot. It'll have some private info on it and up to you if you want to remove that part. You'll need to just add .txt to the file name to post or dm.

Otherwise, a screen capture of the Data page to show all the battery info columns.

So I would set your system to work with Comms (lithium mode) with Voltage, with max Voltage settings to 54V and Minimum to 48V for now. I'm hoping it's just an SOC calc error and not some way off imbalance between cells. The first would be relatively easy to fix, the latter not as easy.

Lastly, is there a reason why you need to set charge rates so high? Do you need to get those batts charged up in 3 hrs if from 0 SOC?
If not needed, I would go up to 150A (=75A for each pack) on the dcAmps.

I read in here about people fully charging their batts by noon and wonder if they realize that is doing more harm than good if they can also fullfill requirements if charging is done by 3-4pm (winter) instead.

I always recommend for users to use PV to charge instead of AC if possible, unless expected bad weather or for emergency backup.
Use the AC to power loads and wait for sun to charge batts = running in bypass mode. I do it by running on AC charge mode with minimal AC power.

But if you need to AC charge, you can do that over a longer period of time ( I think all day for you since I assume you have same electric rates thoroughout the day)? If so, set AC charge power to something like 4kW.

Ok, send us your data .

@fnnwizard , I’m happy to share data. I believe the only sensitive data is the serial number column, correct? I can just null that data out and provide the rest as is. I can do so via a Google Sheet to make it easier too if you’d like.

I do not need/have a desire for the standard AC charging to charge the battery up extremely quickly. The settings that are on my 18KPV are either what was there at commission/standard default OR things altered by distributor technicians remotely. Per your comment, I changed the Charge current limit (Adc) from 250 to 75. I am only using 1 EG4 PowerPro thus far so thought to do that as you stated 150 for both or 75 for one (I’m trying to figure out this battery mess so I can add a 2nd power pro that is sitting in my garage). A response from SS today shared that because I manually stopped a ‘quick charge’ from the app, that flipped the ‘charge enabled’ to off, so AC was just working as a bypass and not charging the battery. I went in and turned that on and it started charging, but then it was sending like 9K watts at the battery then I got a high voltage warning although the interface was only reporting 51V by then…so I agree that there seems to be too much going to the battery all at once.

I did do a short video slowly going over my settings as of right now (not showing serial number). I would be grateful for you’d guidance on best settings to use for my personal ideal scenario which I can describe below.

1) I would like to use the grid as little as possible. The only reason why it’s connected as an input is so my wife stays happy , She’s fine with my ‘solar project’ so long as she can’t tell a difference in what she can do….so far I’m passing that test
2) I do NOT want to sell back to grid.
3) I have one more array to add into my 1st PV input in parallel, all other inputs are used. I have 28 panels 440w panels mixed between East and West facing areas of my roof In the summer with direct sunlight but lower efficiency for AZ’s ungodly heat I can get about 9kw of continuous PV and in the winter here I’m getting about 7~8k continuous with the less favorable sun angle and some shading, but it is more than enough to power the home+charge batteries for when needed. I would like this system configured in a way that minimized grid AC power and maximized the life of the system.

So, with that said and if you have a chance to review the screen recording located at this Google Photo link, any thoughts on config changes?

Link to settings overview: https://photos.app.goo.gl/TNchYK5Fm5Y1Bs8EA

Lastly, I’m happy to share the data so long as I could get some confirmation that the serial number column is the only sensitive data (blows my mind SS although extremely helpful, will do what I ask only with that number….I think it would be best to find additional ownership/verification practices).

 

[fnnwizard]

1) I would like to use the grid as little as possible. The only reason why it’s connected as an input is so my wife stays happy , She’s fine with my ‘solar project’ so long as she can’t tell a difference in what she can do….so far I’m passing that test
2) I do NOT want to sell back to grid.
3) I have one more array to add into my 1st PV input in parallel, all other inputs are used. I have 28 panels 440w panels mixed between East and West facing areas of my roof In the summer with direct sunlight but lower efficiency for AZ’s ungodly heat I can get about 9kw of continuous PV and in the winter here I’m getting about 7~8k continuous with the less favorable sun angle and some shading, but it is more than enough to power the home+charge batteries for when needed. I would like this system configured in a way that minimized grid AC power and maximized the life of the system.

Yep, this is how most people would like it.

So, with that said and if you have a chance to review the screen recording located at this Google Photo link, any thoughts on config changes?

Link to settings overview:

There's a few things that need to be corrected. the Max AC is in kW. It doesn't show in the mobile, but it does in the browser. Depending on the breaker its connected to, u need to lower that.

As you have it now, it is actually set for 6553kW (18kPv max is 48kW). Not a big deal if you have it straight to 250A breaker since 18 can do 200A bypass. If if your breaker isn't rated for it then need to adjust.

Also, are a couple settings under Charge Setting in the browser app that doesn't show in the mobile. Can you screen shot those using browser?

Login page

monitor.eg4electronics.com

We don't want to change anything else until we can review the historical data tho.
But based on what you have written, its likely pointing to cell imbalance. Can you also get individual cell Voltage data?

Do you have BMS Tools?

Software Drivers - EG4 Electronics

Access the latest software and drivers for EG4 products, with up-to-date manuals and firmware to ensure optimal performance.

eg4electronics.com

Lastly, I’m happy to share the data so long as I could get some confirmation that the serial number column is the only sensitive data (blows my mind SS although extremely helpful, will do what I ask only with that number….I think it would be best to find additional ownership/verification practices).

Correct serial number is only sensitive info, and yes they don't always have standard protocols to verify ownership before making changes using just serial#. They need to setup even something like a simple verbal password into the app database before allowed to mess with the settings.

 

[Jdcarrol]

Yep, this is how most people would like it.



There's a few things that need to be corrected. the Max AC is in kW. It doesn't show in the mobile, but it does in the browser. Depending on the breaker its connected to, u need to lower that.

As you have it now, it is actually set for 6553kW (18kPv max is 48kW). Not a big deal if you have it straight to 250A breaker since 18 can do 200A bypass. If if your breaker isn't rated for it then need to adjust.

Also, are a couple settings under Charge Setting in the browser app that doesn't show in the mobile. Can you screen shot those using browser?

Login page

monitor.eg4electronics.com

We don't want to change anything else until we can review the historical data tho.
But based on what you have written, its likely pointing to cell imbalance. Can you also get individual cell Voltage data?

Do you have BMS Tools?

Software Drivers - EG4 Electronics

Access the latest software and drivers for EG4 products, with up-to-date manuals and firmware to ensure optimal performance.

eg4electronics.com

Correct serial number is only sensitive info, and yes they don't always have standard protocols to verify ownership before making changes using just serial#. They need to setup even something like a simple verbal password into the app database before allowed to mess with the settings.

Here is the data history: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nIWyRFgFNjdNukUtO-KNEkQWFf3g2vF9PGsh4EUB3uU/edit?usp=sharing

When I log into monitoring from the desktop and go to configuration It shows me my device or station when I click on it it just sends me to the overview page, how do I navigate to the page where it shows the settings like my mobile app?

The AC power that is going to the inverter from a 100A breaker off our home's main breaker box, the inverter is powering a 2nd breaker box. @fnnwizard

 

[BKY2003]

“how do I navigate to the page where it shows the settings like my mobile app?” I clicked on use setting page by default. I think that is what you are asking.

 

[Jdcarrol]

Thanks, here are my settings @BKY2003 and @fnnwizard

 

[fnnwizard]

Here is the data history: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nIWyRFgFNjdNukUtO-KNEkQWFf3g2vF9PGsh4EUB3uU/edit?usp=sharing

When I log into monitoring from the desktop and go to configuration It shows me my device or station when I click on it it just sends me to the overview page, how do I navigate to the page where it shows the settings like my mobile app?

The AC power that is going to the inverter from a 100A breaker off our home's main breaker box, the inverter is powering a 2nd breaker box. @fnnwizard

So the AC bypass power should be set to 19.2 (kW ) ( technically that's 80% of breaker value = 80A*240V =19.2KVA), not trying to be technical, just educating.

The consequences are not huge except in certain situations where you are using AC power to charge batts.

If set with what you have now, it can pull the max 200A, which will trip that breaker, leaving you to run off batteries, and the whole thing can shut down, especially if you are low on batts and charging.

If set to 19.2kW (kVA really), and inverter needs more, it will derate battery charging whille trying to keep loads going.

EDIT:

Can you send data while running under lithium mode? Under that mode, it shows battery cells min and max.
Under lead acid, thewres no cell data.

If you have none, can you provide cell voltage from the battery?

 

[BKY2003]

Powerpro Nominal battery AH is 280AH not 250. Or is that what SS told you to plug in.

 

[Jdcarrol]

So the AC bypass power should be set to 19.2 (kW ) ( technically that's 80% of breaker value = 80A*240V =19.2KVA), not trying to be technical, just educating.

The consequences are not huge except in certain situations where you are using AC power to charge batts.

If set with what you have now, it can pull the max 200A, which will trip that breaker, leaving you to run off batteries, and the whole thing can shut down, especially if you are low on batts and charging.

If set to 19.2kW (kVA really), and inverter needs more, it will derate battery charging whille trying to keep loads going.

EDIT:

Can you send data while running under lithium mode? Under that mode, it shows battery cells min and max.
Under lead acid, thewres no cell data.

If you have none, can you provide cell voltage from the battery?

When you say "the AC bypass power" are you referring the value for "Max. AC Input Power(kW)" so it should ready "19.2"?

I'd be happy to switch to lithium mode. Do I do that by changing "Battery Type" to "2: Lithium" ? Do I need to change any other settings? @fnnwizard

 

[Jdcarrol]

Powerpro Nominal battery AH is 280AH not 250. Or is that what SS told you to plug in.

Are you referring to "Discharge Current Limit(Adc)" that is currently set to 250. I want to say that I haven't touched that setting, but it's possible. Most configurations have been performed by SS, but I do want to note that they have been very responsive and supportive...they are also helping a customer (me) who is completely new to pretty much anything electrical that is trying to learn this as I go to help my family/and whoever else I can (once I get as proficient as yall )

When I refer to signature solar I hope it's not perceived in a form of blame or frustration on their support, but rather context to get this finally solved so I can move @BKY2003

 

[Jdcarrol]

So the AC bypass power should be set to 19.2 (kW ) ( technically that's 80% of breaker value = 80A*240V =19.2KVA), not trying to be technical, just educating.

The consequences are not huge except in certain situations where you are using AC power to charge batts.

If set with what you have now, it can pull the max 200A, which will trip that breaker, leaving you to run off batteries, and the whole thing can shut down, especially if you are low on batts and charging.

If set to 19.2kW (kVA really), and inverter needs more, it will derate battery charging whille trying to keep loads going.

EDIT:

Can you send data while running under lithium mode? Under that mode, it shows battery cells min and max.
Under lead acid, thewres no cell data.

If you have none, can you provide cell voltage from the battery?

Here’s an image of current cell voltage with a snapshot of the inverter at the same time.

 

[BKY2003]

When you change to lithium the BMS should change the Battery AH setting. Other settings

 

[Jdcarrol]

When you change to lithium the BMS should change the Battery AH setting. Other settings

Gotcha, and would I choose 0:EG4 as the brand?