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It's Working!!! Sol-Ark 15K, 33.52kW with 67 Panels AC+DC PV, 40kWh SOK Batteries - Photo Diary

You're doing better than what Xcel pays (not that I don't agree with your "Grrrrrrr!"). Here are Xcel's historic AHIC rates:

Historic AHIC amounts:
2023: 1.529¢ 2022: 2.672¢ 2021: 1.786¢ 2020: 1.115¢ 2019: 1.205¢ 2018: 1.503¢

But Xcel is still better than some local Co-ops and such. Grand Valley Power (and other Co-ops), for example, limits solar to maximum 10kW DC rated and they can choose whether they will allow bigger systems (GVP does not). They must pay out for excess generation but can choose a "rate deemed appropriate." Xcel uses the 200% rule for maximum DC rated size. Finally, GVP has $31.50 monthly base charge, whereas Xcel is $9.39.

So in the end, like you, the payout amount is peanuts but overall it's better than if I were with GVP. At least I was able to put up a 31kW system and will get some dollars back. And the base rate is 70% less.

Xcel is worse for sure. CORE (utility) also has the 10kW max 200% of your current usage rule for net metering. I went with Qualifying Facility so I could go with 33.52kW. I've also seen the writing is on the wall with net metering and that it will be going away in the future.

I really don't want to be buying any power from my utility. I have to sell 3 to 1 to break even, not to mention selling enough to off set their monthly charges. I talked with my wife today and she is on board with buying another five SOK batteries in a month or two. The extra 25kW should make it that I'm not having to buy from my utility each day unless the weather is really bad. Even then, I have the option of running the generator.

I've attached a copy of the bill for giggles.
 

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Don't see it lasting though. At least you have that for now. What was the size limit of a system you could have?

Net metering in Pennsylvania​

System capacity limit50 kW for Residential
3 MW for Non-residential
5 MW for micro-grid and emergency systems
Monthly excess generation credit rateFull retail
Annual excess generation credit ratePrice-to-compare rate (generation and transmission, reconciled yearly)

I agree it's not fiscally sustainable for the power suppliers but a recent PA Supreme Court ruling solidified it for the foreseeable future.

My total electricity costs for the past year is $241.11. I received $180 in SREC credits for the same period, so basically $61.11 for 12 months.
 
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Xcel is worse for sure. CORE (utility) also has the 10kW max 200% of your current usage rule for net metering. I went with Qualifying Facility so I could go with 33.52kW. I've also seen the writing is on the wall with net metering and that it will be going away in the future.

I really don't want to be buying any power from my utility. I have to sell 3 to 1 to break even, not to mention selling enough to off set their monthly charges. I talked with my wife today and she is on board with buying another five SOK batteries in a month or two. The extra 25kW should make it that I'm not having to buy from my utility each day unless the weather is really bad. Even then, I have the option of running the generator.

I've attached a copy of the bill for giggles.
That's a beautiful bill lol

But. How would more batteries help you?
 

Net metering in Pennsylvania​

System capacity limit50 kW for Residential
3 MW for Non-residential
5 MW for micro-grid and emergency systems
Monthly excess generation credit rateFull retail
Annual excess generation credit ratePrice-to-compare rate (generation and transmission, reconciled yearly)

I agree it's not fiscally sustainable for the power suppliers but a recent PA Supreme Court ruling solidified it for the foreseeable future.

My total electricity costs for the past year is $241.11. I received $180 in SREC credits for the same period, so basically $61.11 for 12 months.

Up to 50kW for residential, and full net metering. Talk about your fast ROI!
 
That's a beautiful bill lol

But. How would more batteries help you?

So my battery storage won't last the night without buying from the grid a little bit. I have enough solar capacity to charge the batteries up if the panels are not covered in snow, and even if it is a fully cloudy day (not rain clouds), I should still make enough to charge the batteries back up. So adding the extra battery capacity would let me turn of grid shaving, or change it to much higher amount, such as 5kW from the 1-2kW that I have it set for now, that I would rarely buy anything from the utility.

25kW would be fine for most residential, but my servers consume about 850-950W 24x7. So I have to off set that. With winter daylight being so short, the battery storage has to run a lot longer. So yea, adding an additional 25kWh more of battery storage to get me to 50kWh should make it rare that I have to buy power from the grid.
 

Net metering in Pennsylvania​

System capacity limit50 kW for Residential
3 MW for Non-residential
5 MW for micro-grid and emergency systems
Monthly excess generation credit rateFull retail
Annual excess generation credit ratePrice-to-compare rate (generation and transmission, reconciled yearly)

I agree it's not fiscally sustainable for the power suppliers but a recent PA Supreme Court ruling solidified it for the foreseeable future.

My total electricity costs for the past year is $241.11. I received $180 in SREC credits for the same period, so basically $61.11 for 12 months.
Nice, 50 kW limit!

They are trying to do something in NY where instead of net metering you get a worse deal and the website even admits that, right now it's still optional. 25kW limit.
 
I really don't want to be buying any power from my utility. I have to sell 3 to 1 to break even, not to mention selling enough to off set their monthly charges. I talked with my wife today and she is on board with buying another five SOK batteries in a month or two. The extra 25kW should make it that I'm not having to buy from my utility each day unless the weather is really bad. Even then, I have the option of running the generator.

Can you reduce your consumption any more? I saw you installed a heat pump water heater; I did the same and it's amazing how much more efficient it is. The other big thing we did, is install mini splits in both house and shop/office. We do not have natural gas. The mini splits are way more efficient than electric heat and AC. We also have an induction range now, which helps some. The single biggest load we have now days, is the EV, which is also way cheaper than getting gas or diesel.

Also, it just occurred to me looking at your bill... your net metering with Core, is where you get a dollar value ($.037/kWh), which is then used toward future bills. Is that right? So, in the winter, you don't have enough banked money to cover all your usage?

Xcel does seem worse, but my net metering is where I bank the actual kWh (not a $$ value), which then get applied toward any kWh I use from them. At end of year, they will pay out the AHIC rate for whatever kWh are left in my bank.
 
Can you reduce your consumption any more? I saw you installed a heat pump water heater; I did the same and it's amazing how much more efficient it is. The other big thing we did, is install mini splits in both house and shop/office. We do not have natural gas. The mini splits are way more efficient than electric heat and AC. We also have an induction range now, which helps some. The single biggest load we have now days, is the EV, which is also way cheaper than getting gas or diesel.

Also, it just occurred to me looking at your bill... your net metering with Core, is where you get a dollar value ($.037/kWh), which is then used toward future bills. Is that right? So, in the winter, you don't have enough banked money to cover all your usage?

Xcel does seem worse, but my net metering is where I bank the actual kWh (not a $$ value), which then get applied toward any kWh I use from them. At end of year, they will pay out the AHIC rate for whatever kWh are left in my bank.

My wife and I are always home. We have several computers and I have servers downstairs along with a camera security system with constantly moving PTZ cameras. Our house load, without any HVAC running is around 1300-1400 watts. So that by itself is about 22kW during the long winter nights.

But yea, in times of emergency, I'd shut down the servers at night and bring everything back online in the morning. I can always run the generator though if we still have NG.

The heat pump water heater is using about 4.5kW a day and it's very nice to have. Very impressed with it and it's not loud at all. Next year I'm planning on replacing my AC with a heat pump:
Our heating will be configured as duel fuel. Use the NG furnace from 10F and lower and the heat pump for any temp above 10F:
I've been doing my own HVAC work for years, so replacing the AC with a heat pump will be a next year thing so I can get the 30% back from the government.

I did the heat pump water heater for the 30% this year, so I'm done for this year. Total cost for the heat pump water heater and the electrical panel and such was $5267. My wife was none too happy about that and said I should have just put in a NG water heater. But she understand the need of it. She just does not like letting those green critters escape.

Yea, I bank the money with CORE. I can request CORE to cut me a check any time I want them to. We'll keep banking each year and probably have them cut us a check each April. We should generate enough extra to cover the winter months. Though adding the batteries will mean less buying power from them as long as the panels are not covered with snow, I should be able to charge the batteries to a 100% by the evening. I worked out the cost to run the generator for 10 hours will cost about the same in electricty for the day from CORE. So run the generator for 10 hours will charge the batteries to a 100% while covering the house loads during that time.

We are a bit of a preppers. The solar was a big part of that. Adding the generator was another piece. Adding heat pumps is another. We'll still keep NG for the gas range cooktop as we prefer cooking on the stove with gas. The ovens are electric.

The only piece of the puzzle that I have not worked out yet, is water. Still strongly thinking of digging an illegal well for emergencies. Thought about putting in a 5-10 thousand gallon cistern and filiing it from our municiple water supply, so that would be legal.

Also still have to take care of adding surge protectors and such to the panel strings, inverters, house main panel, etc. For when that pesky CME comes. Not sure what to do about EMP though. :)
 
Our heating will be configured as duel fuel. Use the NG furnace from 10F and lower and the heat pump for any temp above 10F:

For reference in your planning, we have the cold climate splits, rated down to -22F. They had no problem heating down to 0 (or lower maybe, though I do not recall getting below zero). About the only thing you notice is that they do the defrost cycle more often when it's really cold. In the past two years, we have never had to use any kind of supplemental heat. In case though, I still have a few strategically placed baseboard heaters and a couple space heaters for backup/emergency. It wouldn't really bother me to use those (if necessary), since we make our electricity. Also, we use a pellet stove, though that is more for the enjoyment of a fire to sit by.


Total cost for the heat pump water heater and the electrical panel and such was $5267. My wife was none too happy about that and said I should have just put in a NG water heater.

On the HPWH, I got lucky. Bought it in 2020; was on sale for $649! Got a $500 Xcel rebate, so in the end, it cost around $100. I paid a plumber $600 to help relocate to the other side of the house and I did the electrical. I would pick HPWH over NG any day.


Though adding the batteries will mean less buying power from them as long as the panels are not covered with snow

Makes sense why you want more batteries, now that I see how Core does it. For us, Xcel is basically like another battery; it doesn't really matter if we use from our battery or Xcel, since it all comes from PV. Later this year, they are supposedly adding time of use around here, so that will change things a little bit. With TOU, only peak PV credits can be used during peak, mid/mid, etc. But credits can be used downhill, so peak can be used in mid, mid in off peak. We'll still be banking actual kWh, but we might start using the battery during peak hours when TOU is here.

The only piece of the puzzle that I have not worked out yet, is water.

I agree. This will be a fun project to work out.

We are a bit of a preppers.

There is a bit of logic in prepping. Why wouldn't you want to achieve independence, if it can be done in a reasonable manner? We have one each, diesel truck and tractor, one EV and a PTO generator. Gives a wide range of options for emergency scenarios, while also being a wide range of options for normal use. Prepping doesn't only have to be for SHTF, it can be great for everyday life.
 
For reference in your planning, we have the cold climate splits, rated down to -22F. They had no problem heating down to 0 (or lower maybe, though I do not recall getting below zero). About the only thing you notice is that they do the defrost cycle more often when it's really cold. In the past two years, we have never had to use any kind of supplemental heat. In case though, I still have a few strategically placed baseboard heaters and a couple space heaters for backup/emergency. It wouldn't really bother me to use those (if necessary), since we make our electricity. Also, we use a pellet stove, though that is more for the enjoyment of a fire to sit by.
Yea, the heat pumps have gotten better at colder temperatures. I was just putting 10F as the cutoff in my case because of efficiency. But yea, if the NG was not flowing, the heat pump will be run as long as there was power to supply it. And even on days where it would be be colder than 10F, if it was sunny, and the batteries are charged, I'd probably run the heat pump.

On the HPWH, I got lucky. Bought it in 2020; was on sale for $649! Got a $500 Xcel rebate, so in the end, it cost around $100. I paid a plumber $600 to help relocate to the other side of the house and I did the electrical. I would pick HPWH over NG any day.
That is a great deal. Mine was a lot more money too because I went with a 80 gallon. CORE doesn't have any kind of rebates. My wife was just looking at the total cost. She is a saver and not a spender, so that works out good in many ways. We are very careful with our money.

Makes sense why you want more batteries, now that I see how Core does it. For us, Xcel is basically like another battery; it doesn't really matter if we use from our battery or Xcel, since it all comes from PV. Later this year, they are supposedly adding time of use around here, so that will change things a little bit. With TOU, only peak PV credits can be used during peak, mid/mid, etc. But credits can be used downhill, so peak can be used in mid, mid in off peak. We'll still be banking actual kWh, but we might start using the battery during peak hours when TOU is here.
Yea, CORE has time of use from 4-8 PM and we run 100% solar/battery during that time.

There is a bit of logic in prepping. Why wouldn't you want to achieve independence, if it can be done in a reasonable manner? We have one each, diesel truck and tractor, one EV and a PTO generator. Gives a wide range of options for emergency scenarios, while also being a wide range of options for normal use. Prepping doesn't only have to be for SHTF, it can be great for everyday life.
For sure. It's fun knowing that you can be completely independent and self sufficient. My fear is that if we have a significant event, my neighbors will want what to take what we have. I'll share within reason, but our prepping is to provide for my family. Ant and the Grasshopper kind of thing.
 
For sure. It's fun knowing that you can be completely independent and self sufficient. My fear is that if we have a significant event, my neighbors will want what to take what we have. I'll share within reason, but our prepping is to provide for my family. Ant and the Grasshopper kind of thing.
When our house got flooded from Sandy, our neighborhood was without power for weeks. Many of our neighbors were unprepared.
All we had was a crappy generator but it was enough to keep the refrigerator and a heating blanket going. I let one neighbor use a line to the generator so they could keep their refrigerator going. I don't know if I will ever be without power that long again but I am much better prepared now.
 
When our house got flooded from Sandy, our neighborhood was without power for weeks. Many of our neighbors were unprepared.
All we had was a crappy generator but it was enough to keep the refrigerator and a heating blanket going. I let one neighbor use a line to the generator so they could keep their refrigerator going. I don't know if I will ever be without power that long again but I am much better prepared now.

Did you have natural gas for your generator or were you were running on other fuels? And if other fuels, how hard was it to keep your generator fed. How did it go for your other essentials such as water and food?

Being residential, I have an unlimited supply of NG as long as it keeps flowing and the generator does not destroy itself. I have enough solar and battery right now that as long as I get some light each day (and the panels are not covered in snow), I can have electricity and I have the generator for backup. But I do need more battery though, I know that.

Also thinking about picking up a StarLink just to have. I know during power outages my Internet goes down.

I'm actually thinking a large attack on our infrastructure could be coming and we could be without power for days, weeks, or even months. So I'm at least very pleased where I am know, just need to keep preparing.
 
But the CFO, AKA, the Wife did not want to at the time. Early this spring she gave me the go ahead and I blew it by going 40% over my estimate. The "little" stuff ends up being very expensive and electrical components are just stupid expensive. Either way, it's done now and I think she will be more approving once we start seeing a ROI and the 30% back from the government
I guess I'm from a different era, but to me it's sad to see grown men seeking permission and approval from their wives, and then getting beaten up about a solar project they worked really hard on for whatever reason. This reminds me a little of the thread with the guy wringing his hands because his solar project uses some extension cords and his wife doesn't like them. Is this universal nowadays? Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

Does it work both ways? What if the wife wants to go to Paris for her holiday, or she wants spend more than you spent on the solar system to buy a pink Lexus. Does she ask you for permission? Is she telling her friends "My husband gave me the go ahead to buy a pink Lexus. I got all the extras, it's loaded. Ended up costing 40% over budget and he's unhappy about it, but I think he'll be more approving after he's had a ride in it."

And it's sad that you did such a beautiful job on that solar install, and your wife can't just sit back and give thanks and appreciate what a wonderful job you did. How about "Wow, how lucky I am to have a genius for a husband who can build a system like that!"

Don't get me wrong. I've never met your wife and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm sure your wife is great. But me personally, I guess I come from a different generation. Of course I discuss things with my partner, and I take her input and ideas, especially if it's a big project or something expensive, but I don't ask for permission. And my partner is super appreciative and excited about having a lower electric bill. Anyway, congratulations on a really beautiful job! (y)
 
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Did you have natural gas for your generator or were you were running on other fuels? And if other fuels, how hard was it to keep your generator fed. How did it go for your other essentials such as water and food?
Since all of the houses were flooded, they shut off all electricity and natural gas until each house was inspected. That took weeks and it was cold outside.
 
PVWatts say I should be able to make over 80kWh during December.
I'm confused about this. Your solar array is 33.5kw, if you plug that into PVWatts, assuming you're living even in a super sunny place like Las Vegas, that would be 58,921 kWh/Year, but you're getting 80,000 just for December?
 
I guess I'm from a different era, but to me it's sad to see grown men seeking permission and approval from their wives, and then getting beaten up about a solar project they worked really hard on for whatever reason. This reminds me a little of the thread with the guy wringing his hands because his solar project uses some extension cords and his wife doesn't like them. Is this universal nowadays? Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

Does it work both ways? What if the wife wants to go to Paris for her holiday, or she wants spend more than you spent on the solar system to buy a pink Lexus. Does she ask you for permission? Is she telling her friends "My husband gave me the go ahead to buy a pink Lexus. I got all the extras, it's loaded. Ended up costing 40% over budget and he's unhappy about it, but I think he'll be more approving after he's had a ride in it."

And it's sad that you did such a beautiful job on that solar install, and your wife can't just sit back and give thanks and appreciate what a wonderful job you did. How about "Wow, how lucky I am to have a genius for a husband who can build a system like that!"

Don't get me wrong. I've never met your wife and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm sure your wife is great. But me personally, I guess I come from a different generation. Of course I discuss things with my partner, and I take her input and ideas, especially if it's a big project or something expensive, but I don't ask for permission. And my partner is super appreciative and excited about having a lower electric bill. Anyway, congratulations on a really beautiful job! (y)

My wife is very good with the finances and she takes care of the bills. She is a saver for sure. Our finances are tied together and we live frugally. We work together on all of our spending. We don't drive new cars. Hers is from 2007 and mine is 2003. Through her saving and my hard work, we paid off our house in under 7 years. It's always harder to save money than to spend it. To be perfectly straightforward, if I had carte blanche with the money, I might have a few more toys but we would not be as far ahead in life either. My wife grew up very poor and she is scared to ever to have to live like that again.

So yea, we discussed the solar and we both have to agree to spend the money. Not just one of us that does what we want. We are married and share in everything. She sees what is happening in the world today, and the cost of living going up. So spending $55K could go to pay a lot of bills for a lot of years.

My wife is amazed at the high quality of my work and all the DIY stuff that I do. She is appreciative. You should see the three years it took to build the 1000 sq/ft deck with a covered roof and she loves it: https://cloud.chrisdos.com/s/GGq6c9JeqLpqzCz

Please understand that my wife and I love each other dearly. We are in this together and we both see what is happening in the world today and the need to prepare for it. I may have just spent the money sooner for prepping than later. But in a way, with inverter technology maturing so fast the way it is, I feel we have a much better system then if I build it five years ago.
 
I'm confused about this. Your solar array is 33.5kw, if you plug that into PVWatts, assuming you're living even in a super sunny place like Las Vegas, that would be 58,921 kWh/Year, but you're getting 80,000 just for December?

PVWatts shows the following for my system:
Total of All Solar Arrays
Month
Daily Average POA Irradiance (kWh/m2/day)
DC Array Output (kWh)
AC System Output (kWh)
1​
4.86​
2,748,704.86​
2,611,230.65​
2​
4.90​
3,174,893.60​
3,023,299.86​
3​
4.94​
4,414,423.45​
4,206,623.52​
4​
4.98​
4,921,186.03​
4,686,184.91​
5​
5.00​
5,466,883.11​
5,213,085.17​
6​
5.02​
5,464,943.53​
5,215,656.87​
7​
5.02​
5,402,630.14​
5,153,601.99​
8​
5.01​
4,957,644.22​
4,727,120.88​
9​
5.00​
4,422,971.39​
4,218,660.25​
10​
4.99​
3,619,621.14​
3,446,903.91​
11​
5.00​
2,917,088.57​
2,775,195.52​
12​
5.01​
2,422,699.54​
2,295,855.64​
Annual Total
4.98
49,933,689.59
47,573,419.16

So 2295855÷31 give us about 75kWh a day in December. I've noticed that I'm not producing what PV Watts say I should be producing. I have a 14% losses according to PVWatts, but I think it might be closer to 20%. Just did not think my system would have that high of losses though. I'll have to see how it pans out over a year.

I've attached my monthly energy generation so far.

Edit: Entered data into PVWats as watts instead of kW. So the above information is off by 1000. Keeping wrong there for posterity as it reflects the post below it as being wrong and my brain was .... broken. :)
 

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I guess I'm misunderstanding. How many kw is your solar array in total? 33.5kw?
 
Checking again PVwatts.
Assuming Castle Rock, Co
It would take an array that is 850kw (850,000 watts) to generate 80,000kwh in December.
Your largest panels are 550W. You would need 1546 panels of that size to generate 80,000kwh in December.

No? I dunno, maybe I'm confused. lol. I've been wrong before. ;)

pv1.pngpv2.png
 
If your array is 33.5kw, according to PVwatts you'll be generating 3,151 kwh for December. Which is still a massive number.

pv3.png
 
If your array is 33.5kw, according to PVwatts you'll be generating 3,151 kwh for December. Which is still a massive number.

Not all the strings face the same direction. I've attached the spreadsheet for each array, according to Greenlancer's layout, also note, there is no Array 5, I have on idea why Greenlancer skipped 5 and went from 4 to 6.

I've attached the panel layout from Greenlancer as well. But yea, the system is large and can produce enough even during December to cover all my house loads. Don't know what it will be once I add a 4-ton heat pump.

Edit: Fixed problem with spreadsheet with data that was inputted into PVWats as watts instead of kW.
 

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Not all the strings face the same direction. I've attached the spreadsheet for each array, according to Greenlancer's layout, also note, there is no Array 5, I have on idea why Greenlancer skipped 5 and went from 4 to 6.

I've attached the panel layout from Greenlancer as well. But yea, the system is large and can produce enough even during December to cover all my house loads. Don't know what it will be once I add a 4-ton heat pump.
@Ryushin - Looks like you have a 'comma' instead of a decimal. For example, instead of 3.220 kW in array 1 you have 3,220 kW... a big difference that is throwing your numbers off.
 

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