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Jackery 1000 as a UPS

HammerToe

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Apr 11, 2021
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I am ‘on the verge’ of ‘popping for’ (purchasing) a Jackery 1000, I would appreciate feedback/opinions as to whether or not A COUPLE OF WAYS I might intend to use it (a) would work and (b) would be safe and not cause any harm to the Jackery itself.

(Jackery 1000’s ‘cost a fair bit’ and so I’m trying to really, really think this thing through and imagine but not simply imagine as many possible ways I could use it in order to maximize the value I get out of it for the money paid).

FIRST: one of the ways – one of the possible uses I thought I might be able to ‘get’ out of a Jackery 1000 would be to (try to) use it as a ‘UPS’ for DESKTOP COMPUTERS. Using a watt, I measured the power draw of the System Unit of APC I built (Ryzen 3600) and was pleasantly surprised that, at idle, it only consumed around 78 W.

Now, it seemed to me that – since either the AC charger that comes with the Jackery can put out about (at least) 165 W or so, that it should be more than sufficient to ‘keep the battery topped up’ even while my desktop computer was ‘Drawing Power’ from it. “I kind of figure” and hope that, for example, if the power got interrupted, the desktop computer would simply be able to continue on operating normally without ‘missing a beat’, without even noticing anything. (I am aware that the Jackery will automatically turn off power to AC outlets after a 12 consecutive hour of ‘no power demand at these outlets greater than 10 W during that period) but that wouldn’t be a factor I need concern myself with in my case and even if one were to be concerned about it – say that for one reason or another one was in the habit of putting one’s PC to ‘sleep’ or ‘hibernation’ or something OR if for any reason the PC was completely not drawing any power for more than 12 hours, that could be easily – it seems to me – be worked around by putting any old greater than 10 W load on the AC terminals from just about any other source you could imagine. (You could even use a couple of 7 W night light bulbs).

Anyway, I can’t see any reason whatsoever why this should not work, and there are several other ways I feel I could use the jackery to maximize the use I get out of it but this struck me as a very interesting potential possible use. Yes, I know, that was the power draw ‘at idle’ and of course it would be higher if I were actually using it but that still I don’t think should be a problem because I still got about another 80 W or so to play with and even typical computer monitor probably doesn’t draw more than about 30 W or so at most. (I checked the power consumption of the largest computer monitor I owned and it was only around 30 W).

In any event, I am one of those skeptical people who don’t like to assume that something that seems pretty obvious like this will in the end, actually work because I might have overlooked something, so I either have to see it for myself or prefer to ask somebody else for their opinion who may have actually tried to use one this way OR might be able to ‘punch a hole’ in my reasoning?

Comment?
 
The biggest "hole" I can see is that your Jackery would remain at a full state of charge all the time.
That's known to shorten the life of the battery.

Plus, wouldn't you be using the inverter 24/7 ? Seems like a lot of wear and tear on the Jackery just sitting and waiting.

You're sacrificing your $1000 Jackery battery for something that a dedicated battery backup could do for less than $100
Now running your computer after a power outage is totally different and the purpose of it.

Ok, that's my best attempt at blowing a "hole" in your idea. Maybe someone else has a bigger shotgun? :cool:
 
Hi, thanks very much for your reply/comments. Made me think a bit and wonder... If/WHY that should be true. Your comment that using a jackery that way was 'Known To Shorten The Life of The Jackery's Battery'? Not saying that I doubt your claim; I'm just wondering WHY that should be true, because it kinda seems to me that if the battery is up to 100% for example, I have not personally come across anything in my travels suggesting that – for example – the 'life' of the Jackery's battery if you simply left it plugged into a charger would result in it being shortened (Because it seems to me that that situation should be analogous to and possibly no different from whether or not you drew power out of it on the output side either. Essentially, all you're doing is pulling power out the other side with the charger plugged in so therefore, if what you are saying is true – and I'm not saying it isn't – then it should also be true that you could shorten the life of a Jackery's battery simply by leaving it plugged in and drawing no-load out of it. INTERESTING! maybe I missed something but it seemed to me that if the jackery's battery was simply charged up to 100%, effectively all it would happen is that if you started to pull power out of it AND the amount of power you were drawing was less than what the charger could supply, then effectively all it would happen is that the power would get shunted around from the input side more or less directly to the output side and effectively nothing whatsoever would happen in so far as the battery itself was concerned. It just seems kind of strange to me and I don't fully understand it because, for example, Jackery I think advises hooking up the unit to its charger every three or six months or something just to keep it topped up in the first place so wouldn't it's BMS keep everything under control and from degrading? Anyway, not saying you're wrong I'm just trying to understand WHY (in the first place) it might be true and also to try to reconcile it with what appeared to me to be similar if not identical situations wherein one might simply leave the Jackery on its charger for extended periods of time and I fully charge state? what is different about this/these two situations ( I wonder...). I think I may have some idea where you're coming from in that I've heard that – for example – for long-term storage – that it might be ideal to keep these batteries charged up between 40% to 90% and never actually fully/100% charge BUT THEN why does Jackery Inc. advise putting him on the charger once every 3 to 6 months or so and, for example, why don't they advise you to discharge it at least 10 or 15% or something and then and only then put it on its charger to top it off when you plan on using it? Anyway/interesting…

Need to look into this further... 'Strikes me' that it might be a fairly simple thing to work around by simply having the Jackery itself plugged in to/through a timer of some kind that could switch it off periodically to let it drain a bit for something and then switch it back on... But it just seems strange/not completely clear to me what's different about the situations...

If I learn more about exactly why or why not I might be wrong, I will 'post' because I feel that using a Jackery as a UPS as long as it would not degrade its capacity over time any more than any other normal form of use was concerned is not that crazy an idea. UPSes are really not 'that' inexpensive ( though admittedly, they are less than a Jackery) if one considers the fact that the batteries in UPSes really don't last all that long and have to be replaced every – perhaps – three years or so AND when you consider the fact that most UPSes will typically provide you with perhaps 10 minutes of run time unless you spend a 'fair amount of money' on a really big one. To me, it's actually 'Total Cost' ( or perhaps better) 'Average Annual Cost of Ownership' over time that matters and by my calculations, a Jackery 1000 if it could be used as a UPS without excessively degrading it for time, it would provide somewhere between eight and 12 hours – HOURS – of run time in the event of a power failure which is way longer than just about any UPS you could buy.

One other thing I did was – in the end – I wound up purchasing two Jackery's. The second one I purchased was one of their new 300 W units with two AC outlets. At first I wasn't that interested in it because it initially appeared to me that you can only charge it at somewhere around 70 or 80 W or so BUT then I learned that you could also use/charge it through its five amp USB-C port AT THE SAME TIME and achieve a charging rate of around 120 W or so! that's not bad at all... Even my most power-hungry Desktop System Unit only pulls around 110 to 120 W 'working hard' and a Ryzen 3600 PC that I have tops out at about just under 80 W!

So it looks like for example a Jackery 300 could do the job and at its price point – the case becomes even better (ignoring the above for a moment) in favor of using a Jackery. in the case of a Ryzen 3000, that would give you some are between 3 1/2 to 4 hours of run time – again way longer than a normal GPS...

Anyway, again, thanks for your comments and if I learn more, I'll post because I think this might be of some general interest to a lot of people.
 
Because lithium degrades when kept at 100%
It is the chemistry of the battery. Something about breakdown of the anodes I think.
I am sure there are members on here with manufacturing knowledge of it...
Bottom line is, the units need to be designed for precise charge storage curves to be used this way, and the jackery isn’t.
 
Because lithium degrades when kept at 100%
It is the chemistry of the battery. Something about breakdown of the anodes I think.
I am sure there are members on here with manufacturing knowledge of it...
Bottom line is, the units need to be designed for precise charge storage curves to be used this way, and the jackery isn’t.
 
Thanks for your UNBELIEVABLY PROMPT reply. I've heard – if I recall correctly – similar things in the past that – for long/longer? storage, it is in fact best to not keep lithium-ion batteries/not try to keep them fully charge up to 100% in order to maximize their life expectancy in terms of discharge/recharge cycles. The thing that I'm having some difficulty doing though is 'squaring the statements' with advice from Jackery to ( I forget exactly but something like) every three months or so plugging the charger into the unit to 'keep it topped up' (if I might be permitted to express it that way). It seems to me that what they should do in order to be consistent with this information is simply advise owners to "Don't sweat it" if you're not using your jackery for an extended period of tim and actually let it drop down below 100% and only try to charge it back up again just before you need it! And the other thing that I wonder about is, 'even if the statement is true' that life expectancy can be reduced if you leave such battery chemistries charged up fully at 100% for long periods of time, "exactly how much difference does that MAKE in terms of reduction in terms of discharge/recharge cycles before it gets significant?" both my Jackery 1000 and Jackery 300 are currently sitting around reading 100% charge and now I'm kind of wondering whether or not maybe I should 'bleed off' 10% or so of the power if I don't plan on using them for ( SOME OR OTHER – WHAT – LENGTH OF TIME? and it kind of makes me wonder to what extent and why a/the BMS is or is not doing the optimal job of taking care of the battery? For example, might it not be not too unreasonable to expect/ask for a BMS to monitor and note/advise users that: "Hey, guy, I've noticed that you haven't used/drawn any power out of me for an appropriately long extended period of time and so if this is normal, don't bother to charge me up to 100% until you really need me at 100%?"

A very interesting topic. And thanks again for your reply. I really do like these units by the way – I bought the Jackery 1000 to use to power a small – 20 leader – 12 V DC powered Genuine Compressor Fridge/Freezer that I picked up late last year. Was kind of intrigued by those devices so figure I picked up a small one – an inexpensive one – cost only about $175 US just to try out and they must say, these things are really kind of neat – lightweight and portable and are very power efficient and obviates the need for and the mass of using ice and its related expenses and the damn thing will even cool down to -8°F and can be used as a freezer if you want to. I ran some tests to see how long my Jackery 1000 would power the thing ( had run some tests with a WhatsApp meter for several days and the thing only polls about hundred and 66 W hours every 24 hours. Based on those tests/measurements of current draw, I had estimated that my Jackery 1000 should be able to power it ( off the DC outlet) four somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 days. and indeed, that's just about where it came out. Roughly speaking, with the fridge set at around 35°F internally at an ambient external temperature around 72°F constantly, it would draw down the Jackery around 22% every 24 hours pretty darn consistently. This is pretty darn good and I was very happy with the results because that's for a 24 hour period at an ambient temperature of 72°F. And so, by extrapolation, if one were to assume that one were to take and use such a device with one on a vacation, AND assume that one was driving every day and only leaving the cooler running off the Jackery for 10 to 12 hours per day, that it would probably drawdown the unit by only 8 to 11% daily if and when it was parked/the vehicle is parked overnight AND possibly even less assuming that ambient temperatures dropped into the 50°F to 60°F range overnight. Lots of interesting things becoming POSSIBLE with this new technology.
 
There is a big difference to sitting at 100% and periodically recharging it, and leaving it plugged in all the time.

as soon as it is charged, when not charging, the battery will discharge slowly. After a few months, it likely drops 10% or so, and the recommendation to charge it back is for use case.
If left plugged in, it would be CONSTANTLY being hit with maximum charge voltage, and the cells would degrade rapidly.
 
Lithium batteries degrade faster when it is hot and when it is at full charge. So that’s why you should not keep it at 100% all the time. Even Tesla would advise you charge their cars to 90% on a normal basis and only top up to 100% before a long trip. Now, the lithium battery is also harmed when over discharged, in fact, it can kill it. Normally, the BMS would prevent that on normal use, but if you drain it till the BMS cuts it out and then let it sit for weeks after, the self discharge could take it to a damaging level. So hence the periodic discharge. I usually keep my Jackery at 90% state of charge. 80% is even slightly better for storage but you get diminishing return and usefulness as a backup battery if it is sitting at 70 or 80%.
 
Thanks for your reply – appreciate it. I was and still am pretty much a ‘noobie’ at this stuff at the time I first posted and I’ve learned a lot since then. ONE of the potential uses for a Jackery I was considering to try to justify the expenditure was the possibility of using it for a UPS for a PC. I kind of figured that if you can keep it charged up/replenish the power that was being drawn out by a PC for example, it could of course in principle and in practice even be used as a UPS. But since then I have become aware of the things that you have said and decided to abandon that idea. I figure I’m going to get enough use out of my Jackery 1000 in other applications (one of them being to power a small 12 V DC refrigerator when I go on vacations/short camping trips it is actually quite convenient to be able to use as an alternative to having to use extension cords. I wound up purchasing one in the end and am quite pleased with it. It’s a really ‘sweet’/nicely made device. You can kind of tell I think that a guy who used to work at Apple was involved in its design.

What I decided to do as I learned more and more about ‘lithium battery chemistries’ was to finally decide to Place an Order for four 3.2V 280Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (‘Grade A’/’New’) back around May 8 I think it was. I FINALLY received an email that they FINALLY were actually ‘shipped’ to me on June 1 and/but given all the confusion in the world right now, I’m not sure if I’ll get them in two or three weeks or maybe it will take 6 to 8 weeks. Have no idea whatsoever if they’re going to come directly to me here in Canada or whether they will have to go through Europe or the USA first for various reasons and/or whether they’re going to be shipped by air or by sea. We shall see. But it looks like they are going to come and everything will probably work out.

I’m currently in the process of trying to purchase a BMS to use in the construction of the battery. I pretty much decided on trying to pick up something like Overkill Solar’s 120 amp 4S BMS either from them OR the JDB? (JBD?) equivalent from just about ANYONE but they seem almost literally impossible to get at this time. I currently have an order outstanding through AliExpress but I’m not even sure if it’s shipped yet or how soon the merchant might be able to ship one to me… Am trying to find out. We shall see. I might even consider ordering another one because I’m pretty sure that even if I wind up having two, I will be able to sell one off for the price that I paid for it. These things are in high demand right now – the specific unit.

With regards to (specifically) lithium iron phosphate battery/chemistry - I’ve learned a lot about these things since my original post. I’ve spent a lot of time looking at discharge curves and areas under the curve and read up on compression and different things. It looks to me like lithium iron phosphate/the battery I am planning on building WOULD be far, far better an alternative as a potential UPS then lithium-ion chemistries. Where I am currently at I think is that – even notwithstanding the fact that they seem to be rated at at least four times as many full – FULL – discharge/recharge cycles before you get down to 80%, (and that’s a lot of cycles! FULL discharge/recharge cycles; and hardly anyone ever would actually do that many cycles back to back) so I think that the phenomenon that you mentioned in so far as lithium iron phosphate is concerned would be a far smaller concern.

I learned about this whole notion of trying to ‘compress’ lithium iron phosphate cells to increase the number of cycles available before you hit 80%, but I decided that I will not attempt to do that simply because… 2000 FULL! Cycles in the first place PLUS the fact the curves seem to indicate that while you might get an additional 1500 cycles before you get down to 80%, it seems like you might be doing it and/or could get equivalent results in another way by ‘observing’/experiencing a more rapidly declining capacity early on in the 3500 cycles trading them off for less degradation percentagewise once you get up asked – say – roughly halfway to 3500 cycles. My conclusion is that I could probably and my plan is to simply program the BMS to not charge all the way up to 3.65 V. (Or more precisely – limit the charging voltage to may be 3.55 V or thereabouts) AND perhaps setting the cut off voltage at the low end somewhere around 3 V or so BECAUSE – if you study the areas under the curve – you really, really wind up giving up very little capacity on a percentage basis and the fact that you are using a lower maximum charging voltage and a higher discharge cut off voltage ‘my gut tells me’ would probably be at least as beneficial – perhaps more beneficial – and probably compensate for not ‘doing compression’.

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts. And if you got any idea where I might be able to order one of those specific BMS is I am considering, let me know.
 
I actually am using an Goal Zero Yeti400 units as
UPS for my home networking modem/router/wifi points. The networking gear runs off the inverter and pull about 40w of power. The Yeti400 is charged via the AC adapter with max power around 90w (though power input hovers around output). So effectively it is functioning as a UPS.

The yeti 400 is a 400wh AGM battery with a 500wh pure sine inverter. Being AGM, it is happy to sit fully charged (in fact, it should sit fully charged). It should be able to lower my networking gear for about 8hrs in an event of a power outage.

I don’t think it is cost effective to use these things as UPS, and the max power is low due to charge rate limits. I just happen to have one sitting around so am putting it to use.
 
I wouldn’t do that. I actually had/have the same need for UPS as you (sump pump + IT stack). These portable systems aren‘t cost effective, nor are they well suited for the task. I built a small scale system with 3kwh of backup with an inverter charger and 3 amperetime 100ah batteries. At full capacity, that’s over 2 days of runtime for me.

The key is choosing an inverter that has
1) automatic transfer switch
2) AC (grid) bypass directly to load.

you can either buy a separate (programmable) charger or use the charger from the inverter.
 
My sump pump backup has a very simple 100Ah lead acid battery with a AC trickle charger connected to it. It is connected to a 12V DC sump pump that is installed in the same sump pit as the primary 110V AC pump but positioned a few inches higher. Normally this would never turn on as the AC pump would run and clear the sump. However, if the AC pump fails for any reason (mechanical issue, no power etc…) and the water rises, then the DC pump kicks in.

Yes, these portable solar generator not not cost effective as UPS systems, but if you have one just sitting around, especially the older AGM battery based ones, then it is totally OK to use it as backup provided your power output rate is less than what the AC charger can provide. My network stack uses a Goal Zero Yeti400
 
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