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JK bms melted balance leads

ADC is not at the battery voltage. They typically use a capacitor sample and hold with level shifting mux. Capacitors are thrown across each cell in the series stack to snapshot each cell's voltage, then all the capacitors are mux'd down to ground level for the 0-3.3v ADC within the STM32F103 ADC input where the sample and hold capacitor voltage representing each cell voltage is round-robin read by ADC.

Unit is not totally protected against mis-wiring of sense wires to wrong cell in the stack. Improper wiring can cause reverse voltage breakdown on the mux MOSFET's creating shorts between the sense wires on cells at different stack voltage levels. Unit can stand mis-wiring of sense wires to cells two or three cells apart in series cell stack but not much higher voltage then that.
 
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Power lead thicknes is the same thicknes as other lead wires, and it goes to 8 cell in my case.
Is the pico 5A too much for 2A balancer and thicknes of balance wires?
 
Bms was located like this. There is no trace of shorting at any of bussbars or battery frame.
 

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Assuming it is flowing 2A max then 5A would seem reasonable. I forgot that the balance leads were being used for more than just voltage measurement. So the balancer internal components could have shorted BUT we should have seen damage where the electrical tape puts all of the balance leads together tightly, that is what leads me to believe the 14-18awg power lead (the one with the quick connect) had to be the current source. There would be no signs of shorting on it, that lead could flow 10A+ with zero signs of damage and would be enough current to produce significant heat inside the BMS.
 
I take it that this was a battery that had been operating fine for a while then this?
 
In the Op's picture, I highlighted in yellow three wires which seem to have burned almost their entire length, knowing what they are for might give us a clue, I hope.
1727616173470(1).jpg
 
Im not sure why this happened, there was no serious load 300-500W at that time, also, battery was low state charge 2.6-2.8V cells at this point.
Also other battery (paralel connected) bms reading discharge was off, charge on 22.6V, voltage, at time, inverter was on bypass.
I have bought fuses for balance leads, but never install them:confused:
Im not sure did something shorted in bms, bad connection, balance lead shorted to bussbar? cell balance was turned off by setting, at 3.42V balance turns on.

Seen it before, its cause of the wacky way JK does it balancing, looks like 1 of your cells got out of balance a good bit and basically caused the JK to start dumping a lot of amps to it.
 
Seen it before, its cause of the wacky way JK does it balancing, looks like 1 of your cells got out of balance a good bit and basically caused the JK to start dumping a lot of amps to it.
Cells were not balancing or even charging, if any of cells dropped below 2.7V, bms should disconnect, no dumping amps to it.
 
Seen it before, its cause of the wacky way JK does it balancing, looks like 1 of your cells got out of balance a good bit and basically caused the JK to start dumping a lot of amps to it.
Where have you seen this before?
 
Where have you seen this before?

Also I have seen the 8s balance wires just melt for no reason on grade A eve 105 cells I don't have pictures but I believe its how the JK and NEEY perform balance that is able to do the sustained 2 amps.

Its enough for me to tell everyone to stick with JBD and just add a EK style balancer should they need it in the future should they need it.
 

Also I have seen the 8s balance wires just melt for no reason on grade A eve 105 cells I don't have pictures but I believe its how the JK and NEEY perform balance that is able to do the sustained 2 amps.

Its enough for me to tell everyone to stick with JBD and just add a EK style balancer should they need it in the future should they need it.
Yeah I remember the JK as a sacrificial fuse direct short episode. I’m concerned about JK’s letting loose for no good reason because I’ve got a total of 6 of these things in service. All are 2 amp balance type. I had thought that there was a small surface mount resistor at each balance position that was there to go poof in case of an over current. Doing a search I’m not finding much (JK + fire). There must be many thousands of units out
there now. I’m glad the OP only lost the bms and some scorched paneling.
 
The only reason he was able to hook it up that way( without a Big Spark/Boom/Bang ), the BMS was off or if he had a disconnect. Try hooking up any BMS, Shunt , ETC in that manner and see what happens. I was always curious where that wiring diagram came from.
 
The only reason he was able to hook it up that way( without a Big Spark/Boom/Bang ), the BMS was off or if he had a disconnect.
After boom, change shorts.
That diagram should have a big red warning “Don’t do this!”
 
The only reason he was able to hook it up that way( without a Big Spark/Boom/Bang ), the BMS was off or if he had a disconnect. Try hooking up any BMS, Shunt , ETC in that manner and see what happens. I was always curious where that wiring diagram came from.
The originally documentation/silkscreening had a misleading "P-" and for someone who does not know how a BMS is supposed to work would lead someone to connect it to 48V and blow it up. The current BMS changes it to be B+, still unclear but unlikely to get hooked to 48V and should be labeled something like B(Inverter/Charger Input).
 
I don't know if this will help anyone or not, but when I check my cell voltages in the JK BMS app I also look at the cell resistance numbers. I figure if there's an issue with a cell or the balance leads, the resistance might be a red flag.

It looks like the BMS was in a static location so we can't blame road vibration.
 
I still don't think the balance wires experienced over current. In the OP's picture, I highlighted in yellow the intact portion of the balance wires, if they experienced over current, the whole lenght will be burned.
View attachment 247628

I think you're correct here.

Ironically, I just did some balance lead failure testing last night. I was curious if fiberglass looming would help mitigate cascading failure from one wire burning another, and from dripping molten copper/molten insulation on anything below. (Good news: it does).

What I also discovered in my experiments was that...

- If a wire is in a circuit that has experienced an overcurrent condition outside of the wire itself, and it isn't fused, then it will always (in all 6 tests I ran) burns through its entire length.

- However, wires whose insulation which were nicked - and the short happened on the wire itself - won't necessarily do this.

- Wires near the failed wire, will ignite themselves, if flames, molten copper, etc. drip onto them... but never along their entire length unless they're touching along their entire lengths (in my tests).

- As one would expect, failures began at the end of a circuit with the highest potential and progress near-instantaneously; the eventual break in the wire/conductor, would happen roughly 0" to 1.5" from where the smallest cross section of conductor began. (e.g. in a 60" circuit, where 0">20" are 4AWG, 20">44" are 22 AWG, and 44">60" are 4AWG, the break in the wire would always occur between inch 20 and inch 21.5).

1728146619007.webpHere's some video of a few of the tests (you'll see only half of the wire glowing in some of those videos, that's because the other half is sheathed in fiberglass insulation - it still glowed under that fiberglass, you just can't see it from this perspective):



With (right) and without (left) fiberglass loom:

1728146653534.webp

I think for the OP's failure above, my experiments confirms your own observations:

- The failure did not begin in the balance leads.
- The charred balance leads do indicate a cascading failure of sorts; at least one balance wire was likely in proximity to one of the full-charred wires (or the PCB) where it ignited, and the fire spread but was not sustained because wire insulations tend to be UL 94-V0 plastics that self-extinguish once removed from a flame/heat source.
- The actual failure likely occurred on the PCB but certainly along a circuit supplied by one of the charred wires. It's unlikely the wire was nicked if it's still in one piece through all of its length.

- Therefore, to find the source of the failure, it should be along a trace supplied by the completely charred wire. Specifically; at a location of trace nearest the partially-charred balance leads. Or, if those partially-charred balance leads crossed the completely charred wire somewhere, then the failure on the trace would be at some less specific location.
 
Yikes glad you're okay. These posts always make me nervous as I have 4 of these running 24 7 off grid!
 
Just want to say that I was able to get new bms from JK supplier free of charge, also he demand that I send old bms to eu warehouse.
Are you going to get conclusive results on how this happened?
 

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