diy solar

diy solar

Just smart enough to be dangerous!

I think your math is wrong because you have not factored in equivalent usable capacity as I have outlined above.

THAT is true, I did not.

Thank you for the education here. This is what I was hoping for! I need to re read all of that a few times and do some reconsidering! TYVM Gentlemen!
 
Can anyone shed light on the first part of the question? Is going with a larger than necessary Inverter a good idea? I believe my house, when it is ready should run on a 12000 watt inverter. {or less} But I am currently investigating the 15000, and 18000 watt SunGold inverters.
 
Can anyone shed light on the first part of the question? Is going with a larger than necessary Inverter a good idea? I believe my house, when it is ready should run on a 12000 watt inverter. {or less} But I am currently investigating the 15000, and 18000 watt SunGold inverters.
Is this for pure off-grid, grid-tied except for backup, or zero-export grid-tied (without whole-house backup)?

In general, having a larger inverter than your peak consumption is a good idea, but that means different things if always running off-grid versus having grid-assist available 99% of the time.
 
Off Grid, but I believe in the wisdom of a couple of the earlier posts, so I will keep GRID power available to switch back if needed and pay their maintenance fee.
 
Off Grid, but I believe in the wisdom of a couple of the earlier posts, so I will keep GRID power available to switch back if needed and pay their maintenance fee.
Then you don’t need to plan for startup surge and can just plan for a healthy margin above peak usage…
 
Here electric cost 0.12 a KWH and they pay 0.02 when you send them power via net metering. But it's much cheaper to let them be my batteries and I pay 0.10 a KWH at night and when I'm not generating much power via my solar set up. Vs paying 0.40 a KWH to pay back a lithium battery bank! Batteries can cost more than your panels!
 
Here electric cost 0.12 a KWH and they pay 0.02 when you send them power via net metering. But it's much cheaper to let them be my batteries and I pay 0.10 a KWH at night and when I'm not generating much power via my solar set up. Vs paying 0.40 a KWH to pay back a lithium battery bank! Batteries can cost more than your panels!
Here in sunny CA, we pay $0.47 / kWh during peak hours but they credit NEM at the same rate they charge.

Off-peak rates are $0.20/lWh but when you factor in the efficiency of the charger and the inverter, charging an expensive battery at night off of the grid to offset consumption during peak hours is a marginal proposition (depends how you want to ‘amortize’ the cost of the battery).

But charging a battery off of DC-coupled PV and ‘time-shifting’ discharge to cover peak load pays off at least half the cost of an expensive LiFePO4 battery reasonably quickly (at least of the DIY variety).

It’s not really a money-making proposition but if you want a battery to get through extended fire-related power outages anyway, it takes out much of the ‘bite’ from the investment.

If I credit all solar production at off-peak rates of $0.20/kWh to amortize the array, SCC, and inverter, each battery cycle generates ~3.5kWh x ($0.45 - $0.20) = $0.875 of savings in my electric bill.

The battery cost me about $1500 so that translates to 1714 cycles or under 5 years to break-even.

Since the battery should deliver over 3500 charge/discharge cycles (or < $0.43/cycle), it all pencils out except that our peak rates are only in effect for the 4 hottest months of the year.

So 5 years-worth of cycles should really be 15 years.

But I use the battery in the off-peak-months to help generate NEM credits at $0.20/kWh (since I can’t consume everything being generated while the sun is shining) so I should ‘charge’ a portion of the battery to the basic power generation system rather than the time-shifting.

If I consider 1/3 of the battery cost for generation, that would mean under 10-years to break-even for the peak-shifting cost of ~$1000.

And adding the remaining $500 battery cost to the $750 I spent on SCC and inverters, the $420 I spent on 1.1kW of panels, and the ~$500 I spent on racking and BOS gets me to under $2200 for a system generating ~1400kWh/year of battery energy or 1100kWh/year after inverting and using to offset consumption (the GTIL inverters I am using gave piss-poor conversion efficiency of ~80%).

At $0.20/kWh that’s $220 per year or 10 years to break-even.

It’s longer than I’d like, but not the end of the world (and certainly better than the ~$10,000 I considered spending on a full-blown Magnum PAE-based system).

And once we purchase an EV in a couple years, consumption will increase, I can add another 1kW of panels for ~$500, and drop break-even closer to 6 years…

The ‘hidden tax’ of our inflated state-monopoly utilities here in CA make investing in solar (with or without storage) sensible from a payback standpoint, but I agree it’s awfully hard to justify the high cost of batteries at typical electric rates like yours (unless you are off-grid and have no alternative, and even then, propane tanks make for pretty cheap energy storage…).
 
I remember the feeling of being self sufficient, off grid and two miles off the closest main road with the winter storm HOWLING around the house, the wood stove crackling happily, and my wife and I playing Diablo 3 and yelling at each other happily... while everyone nearby was doing without power. Lines down everywhere. Some people were without power for two weeks. Meanwhile, the snow built up around the cabin, snow piling up past the windows as it also slid off the roof. My duties were to put on the snowshoes and go out to slide the snow off of our solar panels, bring in more wood, while she made breakfast, and used her hotspot so we could watch tv while we ate. I don't think I have ever felt more content and self reliant. I want that feeling back. I want the security and as a major bonus, I want to step away from paying the arrogant asses that I am currently having to pay.
If I could sell back the extra power I would seriously oversize. My son is about to retire from the military, and wants to build a house. So I may well more than double the size of the power system to supply HIM with power as well when he builds that house. Provided I can get the bugs worked out of my system...

The 15000 Watt Sun Gold inverter surges to 45kw, the 18000 watt inverter surges to 54kw I dislike the idea of maxing an inverter often, and hope that by going to a larger size that the lighter load on it will help it last longer. Often hopes and reality do not coincide, but its worth a shot.


So are ANY of you using a hybrid system, and of so what brand inverter are you using? The hybrid inverter I am looking at has connections for both solar and wind, while the Sun Gold inverter does not... I am ... Assuming, that running a seperate system means another charge controller being hooked directly to the batteries instead of going through the existing charge controller?
 
I remember the feeling of being self sufficient, off grid and two miles off the closest main road with the winter storm HOWLING around the house, the wood stove crackling happily, and my wife and I playing Diablo 3 and yelling at each other happily... while everyone nearby was doing without power. Lines down everywhere. Some people were without power for two weeks. Meanwhile, the snow built up around the cabin, snow piling up past the windows as it also slid off the roof. My duties were to put on the snowshoes and go out to slide the snow off of our solar panels, bring in more wood, while she made breakfast, and used her hotspot so we could watch tv while we ate. I don't think I have ever felt more content and self reliant. I want that feeling back. I want the security and as a major bonus, I want to step away from paying the arrogant asses that I am currently having to pay.
If I could sell back the extra power I would seriously oversize. My son is about to retire from the military, and wants to build a house. So I may well more than double the size of the power system to supply HIM with power as well when he builds that house. Provided I can get the bugs worked out of my system...

The 15000 Watt Sun Gold inverter surges to 45kw, the 18000 watt inverter surges to 54kw I dislike the idea of maxing an inverter often, and hope that by going to a larger size that the lighter load on it will help it last longer. Often hopes and reality do not coincide, but its worth a shot.


So are ANY of you using a hybrid system, and of so what brand inverter are you using? The hybrid inverter I am looking at has connections for both solar and wind, while the Sun Gold inverter does not... I am ... Assuming, that running a seperate system means another charge controller being hooked directly to the batteries instead of going through the existing charge controller?
Welcome to Iowa, what part are you in? I read thru this thread and had to respond, it's an Iowa thing. I have power thru Alliant, and yes, they are increasing rates for several reasons, namely because coal generators they buy power from are shutting down those generators. Then by Cedar Rapids, the nuclear plant is being shutdown and closed. As they buy on the open market, they are forced to raise rates and the Iowa Utility Board allows it. However if you look at other states in the US, you will find Alliant isn't that high on rates, $0.15 per Kwh summer, $0.12 per Kwh winter. Surcharges apply for peak usage, they put out smart meters for a reason. Alliant is heavy on fees, just the way it is as they continue to have to upgrade the grid, years back there was no investment in the grid so all those poles, wires and transformers are really showing some age.

As to why your usage and resulting bill is high, you need to start auditing your usage. Switch to LED lighting, find energy efficient appliances. I'm amazed the new refrigerator here takes 1Kwh per day. It is cheaper to cut Kwh usage than build a system to match current Kwh usage.

Now, here is the thing with building a system in Iowa. With Alliant and many of the REC's (Rural Electric Coop) out there, well all now, you can only build a grid tied system to 80% of current usage with net metering. My brother bought a used wind generator years ago and at the time his REC would buy power from him at $0.10 per Kwh. This allowed the REC to meet requirements for renewables. What occurred was that REC merged with another from MN and all those agreements went out the door. Part of the reason for the merger was the coal generation they bought power from was slated for shutdown and that has now happened. With the merger, the REC had a different supply of grid power and it wasn't in their interests to pay someone like my brother when it could be bought cheaper. Shareholders (coop customers) want those dividends, even if it means they aren't energy independent long term. The opportunity to break those agreements was available with the merger into a new company, thus those agreements were voided. My brother now is on net metering. He banks his maximum net metering allowed production on the grid, then locks down the wind generator to keep wear and maintenance down. Speaking of maintenance, wind is very very maintenance dependent. Here in NE IA, we have large wind farms and I know people who work on them. You don't really want wind.

With grid tied, you will be required to get all the permits and inspections done. My brother was required to use only licensed electricians for his grid tied hookup, at the time our cousin was licensed. Fire marshal will inspect it and only then will Alliant hook you up. But you will also be required to carry insurance for liability, at least he was at the time.

It is more advantageous to go with load reduction instead of grid tie. Build a system where you bank excess production on your side of the meter with no ability to back feed the grid. Use the grid as backup power. I can tell you why you received such high estimates from contractors here. All are extremely busy, they also see increases in supplies needed for installs increase over 1000% on some items. I know earlier this year, you could not source a meter socket in IA. They just weren't available. As you want to go completely off grid, it will take some serious money to meet all your needs. Your usage is comparable to what my house and shop take on my acreage, with air conditioning running in both all summer. 2 freezers, 2 fridges, air compressor, welders, lifts and a well are the biggest uses. I run a full time business here and my specialty is vehicle air conditioning repair so the shop AC gets a workout all summer. I looked at grid tie a few years back with 80% usage generated and the cost then was $28K plus inspection. But I live in a non zoned county and several factors come into play when it comes to building here, no permits required. If you were to go completely off grid with batteries for the usage you describe, then it will take 2 inverters,very large bank and the PV array will probably double. The reason why is the weather in IA can be fickle, you get periods with little sun for extended periods. You get periods where 4 or 5 days of very cloudy weather will affect PV production. As you want off grid completely, this needs to be taken into account. If you went load reduction, the system would not have so many requirements.

Take up Alliant on the energy audit, it might be eye opening for you. If you have a shop for example, with halogen lights, then switching to LED will cut usage. And Alliant will help pay for it with rebates. It's really just returning the money they charged you for with their fees. After you get usage down, then design and build your own system for load reduction without grid tie feeding the grid. Over time, you can expand the system if desired to get completely off grid or cut grid Kwh to basically nothing.
 
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