Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
How would they charge you if you are off grid and don't a connection or have a utility bill?
Lawsuit challenging Alabama Power solar panel charge
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cs1234
Solar Wizard
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The point isn't the bitching. The point is that everybody moving to a system with battery backed up solar power systems able to cover their full energy needs isn't practical. Much smaller systems that could be easily installed by anybody that could plug in a drier could greatly benefit the countries energy resilience if the power companies weren't actively fighting it the entire way.
Don't get me wrong though, I like bitching.
wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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It's a solar panel?! LOL
I've seen some other camo'd panels that are more traditionally sized.. but these little 5 watt ones are neat.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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MattMan119
Solar Geek
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Yes, all of us with off grid systems are not practical people, you are the only sane practical one?
First, it is called living within your means, whether it is power (electrical and fuel), money, housing, vehicles, etc.
I don't have a problem living within the confines of my power system. I could easily go from grid backup to using a generator for the $5 worth of power the house used from the grid last winter.
The problem is people want everything, want it now and don't live within the confines of their means. They are greedy. Interconnection is another form, the grid tie system is subsidized by others so the grid tie owner can live beyond their means. How many grid tie systems would have been built without net metering and instead the grid tie Kwh were tied to wholesale generation? If grid tie had to pay for storage of the Kwh, would those system have been built?
What government did was create incentives to adopt grid tie solar and those who did not look into the future 10 or 20 years are now complaining they are getting screwed because the "freebie" is now being taken away. Government created the incentive in order to get mainstream adoption to drive the manufacturing costs of solar and wind down as efficiency of scale ramped up. This was the game all along, once the costs for renewable energy came down, the utility companies built their own renewables. They don't need you or any grid tie system. Many miss this point, the costs for renewables have come down low enough that utilities can meet renewable requirements on their own and at a much lower cost than some independant generator with PV in their backyard.
My brother learned this with mid size wind, he is grid tie and originally received $0.10/Kwh he produced after meeting their requirement for interconnection including a huge liability policy which he pay a premium for every year. Eventually, they didn't need him so they pushed him to net metering on a monthly true up.
You are attempting to win against an entity much larger with more power and money than you will ever have. They will get what they want, just like any other robber baron in history.
Good luck, read the last line I wrote above.
You would do better to focus the energy on something constructive such as how to be off grid and practical.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
I would think it would be hard to legally charge for something they didn't provide.
No what you have is minimum base bill of $25 + tax. Demand charge is peak 30 min window (averaged) power load priced at $13.6 per kW in addition to energy and fuel charges. FPL business accounts pay that.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
On what legal grounds? The sun shines thru the windows of my house and creates light. I would be expected to now pay a fee on each window?
You are confusing being tied to a utility with not being tied to a utility. In the former, they make the rules because you are the consumer. In the latter, you are not a consumer and thus not legally bound to them.
By the way, you are leaving 142 kWh of "free" energy unused every month. You should be able to use up your $15.45 minimum base bill amount with electricity usage and pay same exact amount you do now.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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Said the pot to the kettle. It's clearly a waste of your time to lecture me.. yet, here you are.
I said no such thing. You have to really stretch my words to say that I'm calling people that build their own off grid system anything negative.
I guess we should just bend over and take it then. No reason to even discuss it. This whole thread was pointless. Alabama Power can and will do anything they want with impunity.
MattMan119
Solar Geek
Oh yes, that is correct. I miss understood the statement you made. They will find a way to get their money. just like the phone company did when land lines started going away. Just like today, you order internet and they "force" give you one for $15. that you will never use.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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I understand your position.
But I have chosen to remove myself from the "everyone".
So that It's no longer my problem.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Gosh, didn't like the message, reality sometimes sucks doesn't it?
You stated it was not practical. Yet, there are those that defy that statement.
Yes, you are getting it now. The only way to not have to bend over is to quit playing their game with their rules.
And here you thought my lecture was a waste of time.
Suijkerbuijk
I cannot be held responsible for this information.
The problem in my country is the same.
Wel the country leaders push that you have solarpanels .
Its good for nature and for Climate.
Than if people have them we have to pay the company that we use them.
Reason i have sell my house.
Stick a nice finger to my own country.
Stap to a boat and in the future a small rv
All with solar power .
Let them go to hell.
Wel the country leaders push that you have solarpanels .
Its good for nature and for Climate.
Than if people have them we have to pay the company that we use them.
Reason i have sell my house.
Stick a nice finger to my own country.
Stap to a boat and in the future a small rv
All with solar power .
Let them go to hell.
Meh, compared to other PoCos they aren't that bad as long as they don't get draconian on solar and don't meddle in state politics. What I want to know is how are you able to keep your bill $0 with only 4.4kW of solar in FL?
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
You really believe a utility can send a homeowner a bill when the homeowner does not utilize the services the utility offers?
What about homeless people that don't use utility power? They will get bills too? I will get a bill for the windows on my house that let in light instead of using electrical power and a lightbulb?
I point back to the first post I have in this thread, any vehicle, horse and buggy or bicycle that uses the road in front of my business should have to pay me because they might have looked at my property. That is what you say the government will legislate. Is it ridiculous? Yes. If what you state will happen and government legislates it, then I can legally send bills to anyone who drives past.
It isn't happening as it is totally ludicrous and opens up so many cans of worms.
altenergy21
New Member
Instead of dismantling and go out of business, they charge you to stay in business.
This simple fact is somehow being debated endlessly.
At first they oppose net metering because people draw power when there's no sun because they built up credits during sunny hours. They say the power companies need to make money during sunny hours to operate.
But the Alabama solar people have batteries and they don't even use power during no sun periods. But this is hurting power companies business so they need to charge.
Everyone needs to buy my stuff I sell on Craigslist because you're hurting me by not doing so. I need to charge you.
This simple fact is somehow being debated endlessly.
At first they oppose net metering because people draw power when there's no sun because they built up credits during sunny hours. They say the power companies need to make money during sunny hours to operate.
But the Alabama solar people have batteries and they don't even use power during no sun periods. But this is hurting power companies business so they need to charge.
Everyone needs to buy my stuff I sell on Craigslist because you're hurting me by not doing so. I need to charge you.
MattMan119
Solar Geek
Thay show it in a weird way. That was 4.4kWh from grid used from power i sent to them, I send 15kwh and use 4kwh at night that month. I have not seen a bill from the day i turned on the system. I have 12.5K of panels, and 10Kwh inverter, runsat 50-70Kwh a day
altenergy21
New Member
You're guilty as "charged" but my bros in Alabama have batteries and they don't draw anything from the draconian grid.
I don't know why they're doing this to bros with solar panels. The power companies will not be able to meet the demand of all those electric cars.
Last edited:
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Garbage collection service is obligatory in San Jose.
During the financial crisis with so many homes in default, bills weren't being paid.
So the city shifted garbage billing to the property tax rolls. They'll get their money eventually.
Except for condo complexes. Many units in default, and banks weren't paying it either.
So garbage is still billed separately to the HOA.
The government could tax everyone with solar panels if they wanted, unless there is a solar customer revolt (like Prop 13 property tax payer revolt.)
Or maybe someone would just do a Metcalf Power Station incident again? And keep doing it until they get off our backs?
en.wikipedia.org
During the financial crisis with so many homes in default, bills weren't being paid.
So the city shifted garbage billing to the property tax rolls. They'll get their money eventually.
Except for condo complexes. Many units in default, and banks weren't paying it either.
So garbage is still billed separately to the HOA.
The government could tax everyone with solar panels if they wanted, unless there is a solar customer revolt (like Prop 13 property tax payer revolt.)
Or maybe someone would just do a Metcalf Power Station incident again? And keep doing it until they get off our backs?
Metcalf sniper attack - Wikipedia
altenergy21
New Member
This is like solar bro version of UnabomberGarbage collection service is obligatory in San Jose.
During the financial crisis with so many homes in default, bills weren't being paid.
So the city shifted garbage billing to the property tax rolls. They'll get their money eventually.
Except for condo complexes. Many units in default, and banks weren't paying it either.
So garbage is still billed separately to the HOA.
The government could tax everyone with solar panels if they wanted, unless there is a solar customer revolt (like Prop 13 property tax payer revolt.)
Or maybe someone would just do a Metcalf Power Station incident again? And keep doing it until they get off our backs?
Metcalf sniper attack - Wikipedia
We need a new quantum diode that can gate quantum fluctuation and amplify it to move electrons. This way we can hide solar panels and the government can't tax it.
MattMan119
Solar Geek
Maybe at some point they will stop connecting everything newly built to grid and allow the home owners to have the option of grid service like phone or cable.. There was a time when it was the only option, now that is no longer try and they need to come to terms with it!
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