Lesson learned. Possible to paypal someone here for help?

[Visionguild]

So I watched the video of Will's where he hooks up a Growatt to a signature solar battery, 48V and I foolishly went out and bought two of each thinking I could put this together. I realize that when Will says something is easy, it's easy for him or if you have the exact gear he has and are doing the exact set up from his video. Anything different and it immediately leaves the DIY realm fast. I'm now getting quotes from electrical engineers for 150$ an hour to help me with what kind of breakers, wires, fuses, etc I need as well as how to connect them. I have the inverters, batteries and panels. I just don't know what to do from here. Anyone on here want to earn some money and draw up a diagram of how to connect two growatt 3000tl's with 2 signature solar lithium batteries in parallel split phase? The manuals are all written for pros so are of no use to me. I'm pretty desperate at this point so I'll pay whatever. I can't return this stuff so I'm resigned to the fact that I will be spending a lot more to finish this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The manuals are about as straightforward as it gets. It does take a little effort to parse out what applies since everything is kinda together.

You need to treat the two batteries as one by wiring them in parallel. Then that bigger battery needs to power both inverters.

From: https://watts247.com/manuals/gw/Growatt SPF 3000TL LVM Series User Manual.pdf?x68852

Wire like this:


Conduct these 6 steps:


Note that in step 5, there is a typo. "3-phase" should be "split phase".

 

[Samsonite801]

What city or rough area are you in (in case there is somebody close by you who could help in your area)...

When looking at what seems to be like a big mammoth problem, always stop, don't panic, break the big problem down into a series of tiny problems and create a checklist. Don't be overwhelmed.

Go in baby steps, figure out each aspect, and what part of it you don't understand, figure out what needs to happen, and knock out each item one-by-one. Don't miss out on this perfect opportunity to learn some new stuff!

Are you planning to wire this into your entire existing AC panel, or are you going to add in a separate auxiliary panel for only 'critical loads' that the inverter will manage (apart from the main AC panel)?

Are you going to put the inverter system in-between the grid AC, and the existing AC panel, or will also have an inverter bypass mode where normal grid power can still feed the AC panel sometimes when bypass is desired?

You do have some versatility in how you connect things to some extent.

On fuses, remember that they are sized to protect all cable runs from melting in a short-circuit or high-current situation. So reading the manual to determine what max amps on battery cables, and max amps on AC runs would be good, they also may recommend gauges for cables, then you can use cable AWG size to fuse calculators to help determine proper fuse/breaker sizes.

 

[Visionguild]

Thank you both so much for trying to help this poor soul. So I just got off the phone with Growatt and he gave me some info that was helpful. I have attached a pic to show you where my head is at as far as what I don't know. Maybe this will help explain why the diagrams aren't working for me in the manual.

The growatt rep said to use 2 gauge wire for the batteries and to use busbars to connect them. Then to get a 50a breaker. Does this seem correct? I don't really know what a 50a breaker is, meaning I know I can't walk into a store and say I need a breaker box with a 50a breaker right?

 

[Visionguild]

The manuals are about as straightforward as it gets. It does take a little effort to parse out what applies since everything is kinda together.

You need to treat the two batteries as one by wiring them in parallel. Then that bigger battery needs to power both inverters.

From: https://watts247.com/manuals/gw/Growatt SPF 3000TL LVM Series User Manual.pdf?x68852

Wire like this:

View attachment 79220
Conduct these 6 steps:
View attachment 79223

Note that in step 5, there is a typo. "3-phase" should be "split phase".

Thanks again for your patience and help. I sent a reply below that hopefully helps.

 

[Visionguild]

What city or rough area are you in (in case there is somebody close by you who could help in your area)...

When looking at what seems to be like a big mammoth problem, always stop, don't panic, break the big problem down into a series of tiny problems and create a checklist. Don't be overwhelmed.

Go in baby steps, figure out each aspect, and what part of it you don't understand, figure out what needs to happen, and knock out each item one-by-one. Don't miss out on this perfect opportunity to learn some new stuff!

Are you planning to wire this into your entire existing AC panel, or are you going to add in a separate auxiliary panel for only 'critical loads' that the inverter will manage (apart from the main AC panel)?

Are you going to put the inverter system in-between the grid AC, and the existing AC panel, or will also have an inverter bypass mode where normal grid power can still feed the AC panel sometimes when bypass is desired?

You do have some versatility in how you connect things to some extent.

On fuses, remember that they are sized to protect all cable runs from melting in a short-circuit or high-current situation. So reading the manual to determine what max amps on battery cables, and max amps on AC runs would be good, they also may recommend gauges for cables, then you can use cable AWG size to fuse calculators to help determine proper fuse/breaker sizes.

Thanks so much for your help. I just sent a reply to maybe make it a little clearer on where I'm stuck. This system will be off the grid entirely but I will probably add a generator at somepoint. One of those generac ones that clicks on automatically when the batteries are low. I want to power my tesla as well as other smaller loads the way Will does. Hence the split phase 240 set up. Am I right that if I set up the breaker box right I should be able to have both?

I have 16 300 watt panels that I can use to power these. Thanks again so much for your time and patience. Good advice above. Very easy to get overwhelmed. I live in a little town in N. California called Ukiah and so far the two outfits that I've tried to get help from just dismiss it all as too problematic as "oh, you just bought a bunch of stuff on the internet and now we have to try to make sense of it." That's what they told me. At a very high cost for them to do so. Was frustrating to say the least.

 

[Samsonite801]

Thank you both so much for trying to help this poor soul. So I just got off the phone with Growatt and he gave me some info that was helpful. I have attached a pic to show you where my head is at as far as what I don't know. Maybe this will help explain why the diagrams aren't working for me in the manual.

The growatt rep said to use 2 gauge wire for the batteries and to use busbars to connect them. Then to get a 50a breaker. Does this seem correct? I don't really know what a 50a breaker is, meaning I know I can't walk into a store and say I need a breaker box with a 50a breaker right?

I would also read that manual cover to cover for yourself, so you can confirm that everything the Growatt rep said coincides with what you see there. You also learn a lot from reading the manual.

On the 50a breaker, assuming he meant the AC breaker? In the manual, we are looking for some indication about what the DC battery circuit needs as far as amperage maximum, and what the AC side out needs for amperage maximum. This helps us to decide on cable gauges, and thus fuse sizes to protect the respective cables.

 

[Samsonite801]

Thanks so much for your help. I just sent a reply to maybe make it a little clearer on where I'm stuck. This system will be off the grid entirely but I will probably add a generator at somepoint. One of those generac ones that clicks on automatically when the batteries are low. I want to power my tesla as well as other smaller loads the way Will does. Hence the split phase 240 set up. Am I right that if I set up the breaker box right I should be able to have both?

I have 16 300 watt panels that I can use to power these. Thanks again so much for your time and patience. Good advice above. Very easy to get overwhelmed. I live in a little town in N. California called Ukiah and so far the two outfits that I've tried to get help from just dismiss it all as too problematic as "oh, you just bought a bunch of stuff on the internet and now we have to try to make sense of it." That's what they told me. At a very high cost for them to do so. Was frustrating to say the least.

Yes, your AC panel (in the USA) should have an L1, and L2, and a Neutral to allow split-phase (also a ground). Do you have an AC panel already? Or is this new construction house?

Also on your solar panels, you should start figuring out how you need to wire them in series/parallel/mix to obtain optimal PV input Voc, without coming too close to limits on your Growatt's max PV input spec. Start thinking about getting a good DC combiner box. How much do you know about that part already?

 

[Visionguild]

Yes, your AC panel (in the USA) should have an L1, and L2, and a Neutral to allow split-phase (also a ground). Do you have an AC panel already? Or is this new construction house?

Also on your solar panels, you should start figuring out how you need to wire them in series/parallel/mix to obtain optimal PV input Voc, without coming too close to limits on your Growatt's max PV input spec. Start thinking about getting a good DC combiner box. How much do you know about that part already?

I don't have an AC panel yet. That's different from the breaker box? Check out this video Will did.

This is the exact battery and inverter that I have. Looks like he uses a pretty thick wire to connect the batteries. 2 I think. You can skim through it really fast to see what he's doing. Not a long video at all and all the pertinent info is in the first minute.

The batteries have a breaker in them. I just went through the manual but again, so much of it is Greek to me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pkk70ko2JgPA68nOhVyMeHnf84yOpQFM/view?ref=cPwLcVc0SW-BjN

I do sort of have an understanding of how I will need to wire the panels in series but probably in groups. I know Will has a video on combiner boxers. Ha! So I guess I'm off to watch that one. The panels seem more straight forward to me. I think I can connect the batteries using some bus bars and based on this other video he did where he combines two MPPT all in one units into a breaker box, it sort of makes sense how things need to go.

If I used the last video as a guide does that seem correct? I see how he connects it to the breaker box for 240. Does this help you at all? I'm sorry to be so slow at this. You've been very generous with your time. I'd be happy to paypal you some money for it. Really. Any help I get is indispensable so it's worth whatever to me. Thank you again.

 

[Samsonite801]

No you're fine no worries at all!

Yes the AC panel is the same as your breaker panel...

I would also search You Tube for other videos as well. It's always a good idea to see how many people do things, because you might see some ways that are easier for you to do based on things they locally sell in your area, and what hardware stores around you carry and such. Nothing wrong with the way Will is doing it. It can just be good to fill your brain with other angles as well. David Poz You Tube channel has some good Growatt videos too, and testing with GYLL rack-mount style batteries...

If you use those little breaker things Will is adding there onto the battery lines though (above the bus bars), just don't buy cheesy no-name ones you see on Amazon. Make sure you use a good model like a Bussman HI-AMP or something like that. And remember DC breakers are only rated for DC, and AC breakers are only rated for AC, never use the wrong rated breaker designed for the other...

On your solar panels, you need to make sure you understand about max PV Voc, and Vmp, and such that the inverter can accept, because if you wire too many panels in series, the Voc increases, and you don't want to go over max or you will fry the inverter's PV input. Same on amps (having too many strings in parallel), it could potentially draw too many amps beyond what it's rated for and blow something.

So you need to look at the sticker on the solar panels, add all the Voc's up that will be in series, and add up all the Vmp's that will be in parallel on a PV input and make sure you are sized (according to the inverter spec sheet) well before hooking it up. Remember wiring series, the Voc's add up higher, but Vmp does not (on that string), but if you connect 2 series strings together in parallel, then those Vmp's add up, but Voc will stay the same.

You need to also factor in the coldest temp the panels will ever see in your climate as well, as cold temps drive up Voc. You can use this calculator to help figure that out:

Solar panel maximum voltage calculator - How to work out the max voltage

To get the maximum solar panel voltage you should expect from your solar panel, use our solar panel maximum voltage calculator.

gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au

We could help with it too if you provide the sticker or model number on the panels and say how many panels you have again.

Also, check the polarity before you connect the PV panels onto the input (using a voltmeter) just to be safe, before you actually plug it in. Be safe when working around the PV wiring (once they are all connected in series), because when you get a bunch of panels in series, the voltages can be above 200v DC...

 

[schmism]

So I watched the video of Will's where he hooks up a Growatt to a signature solar battery, 48V and I foolishly went out and bought two of each thinking I could put this together. I realize that when Will says something is easy, it's easy for him or if you have the exact gear he has and are doing the exact set up from his video. Anything different and it immediately leaves the DIY realm fast. I'm now getting quotes from electrical engineers for 150$ an hour to help me with what kind of breakers, wires, fuses, etc I need as well as how to connect them. I have the inverters, batteries and panels. I just don't know what to do from here. Anyone on here want to earn some money and draw up a diagram of how to connect two growatt 3000tl's with 2 signature solar lithium batteries in parallel split phase? The manuals are all written for pros so are of no use to me. I'm pretty desperate at this point so I'll pay whatever. I can't return this stuff so I'm resigned to the fact that I will be spending a lot more to finish this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

What is your application? Are you off grid? You managed to get 6-8Kw of PV installed?

 

[Bluedog225]

This is meant to be helpful.

Take a couple of weeks. Read some of the resources section of this forum. This is all learnable with only medium effort.

Learn the following:
- why good connections are important and what happens if they are not tight.
-the basics mathematical relationship between volts, amps, and watts.
-how to use a multimeter.
-the different ways you can wire solar panels together, esp the do’s and don’ts (esp volts and cold weather).
-what happens when you short out your wires or terminals and how to avoid it.
-why a class-t fuse is important.

I’m sure others have additional items you should learn before you proceed.

You haven’t bought carpy stuff so you are not out of luck. But you mat be if you do this wrong.

Good luck!

 

[Visionguild]

What is your application? Are you off grid? You managed to get 6-8Kw of PV installed?

I am off grid. I have very little energy needs beyond charging the car. I probably don't use more than 1000 watts on everything else. I have 1800 watts of panels installed now with another 3000 worth ready to go. Waiting on clamps.

 

[Visionguild]

This is meant to be helpful.

Take a couple of weeks. Read some of the resources section of this forum. This is all learnable with only medium effort.

Learn the following:
- why good connections are important and what happens if they are not tight.
-the basics mathematical relationship between volts, amps, and watts.
-how to use a multimeter.
-the different ways you can wire solar panels together, esp the do’s and don’ts (esp volts and cold weather).
-what happens when you short out your wires or terminals and how to avoid it.
-why a class-t fuse is important.

I’m sure others have additional items you should learn before you proceed.

You haven’t bought carpy stuff so you are not out of luck. But you mat be if you do this wrong.

Good luck!

Thanks for your help. I've been doing just this. I'm trying to find someone locally that can hold my hand on this stuff. I used to work at an internet service provider and people would call with questions and my boss would go on about RX rates and TCP/IP, packet loss, etc. I would then get on and realize the customer didn't even know what the router was. That's my experience with solar. Most peeps are thinking from such a high level that I end up with more questions than answers. I understand the relationship between volts, amps and watts, can use a multimeter and get the concepts of parallel versus series in terms of panel arrangements and such, but it's hard to know what questions to ask when you don't know what you don't know. Like, I didn't know what a buss bar was. Ha! See what I mean? I'll keep on plodding along. Don't have much choice right. I'm hopeful one of these local guys will give me a call back. You guys are all awesome and I super appreciate your patience and your efforts to un confuse this guy. I wish I wasn't so thick headed on this stuff. I guess that's why the electrical engineers make the big bucks huh. Cheers!

 

[Samsonite801]

Google lots, and prosper ?

(Questions are good, more questions are better, it means your desire to learn is alive)

 

[Visionguild]

No you're fine no worries at all!

Yes the AC panel is the same as your breaker panel...

I would also search You Tube for other videos as well. It's always a good idea to see how many people do things, because you might see some ways that are easier for you to do based on things they locally sell in your area, and what hardware stores around you carry and such. Nothing wrong with the way Will is doing it. It can just be good to fill your brain with other angles as well. David Poz You Tube channel has some good Growatt videos too, and testing with GYLL rack-mount style batteries...

If you use those little breaker things Will is adding there onto the battery lines though (above the bus bars), just don't buy cheesy no-name ones you see on Amazon. Make sure you use a good model like a Bussman HI-AMP or something like that. And remember DC breakers are only rated for DC, and AC breakers are only rated for AC, never use the wrong rated breaker designed for the other...

On your solar panels, you need to make sure you understand about max PV Voc, and Vmp, and such that the inverter can accept, because if you wire too many panels in series, the Voc increases, and you don't want to go over max or you will fry the inverter's PV input. Same on amps (having too many strings in parallel), it could potentially draw too many amps beyond what it's rated for and blow something.

So you need to look at the sticker on the solar panels, add all the Voc's up that will be in series, and add up all the Vmp's that will be in parallel on a PV input and make sure you are sized (according to the inverter spec sheet) well before hooking it up. Remember wiring series, the Voc's add up higher, but Vmp does not (on that string), but if you connect 2 series strings together in parallel, then those Vmp's add up, but Voc will stay the same.

You need to also factor in the coldest temp the panels will ever see in your climate as well, as cold temps drive up Voc. You can use this calculator to help figure that out:

Solar panel maximum voltage calculator - How to work out the max voltage

To get the maximum solar panel voltage you should expect from your solar panel, use our solar panel maximum voltage calculator.

gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au

We could help with it too if you provide the sticker or model number on the panels and say how many panels you have again.

Also, check the polarity before you connect the PV panels onto the input (using a voltmeter) just to be safe, before you actually plug it in. Be safe when working around the PV wiring (once they are all connected in series), because when you get a bunch of panels in series, the voltages can be above 200v DC...

Thanks again. You've been awesome. I've attached the stats from the panels I have. I have 16 panels total. Might be a few more than I can use actually. Dave Poz is great. I've watched his videos on his 3 5kW Growatts. I'm trying to find some more basic type of videos. I have a call out to a local fellow that supposedly could come hold my hand on this stuff. Make sure I don't buy the wrong stuff, (thanks for the heads up on the Bussman's) and kill myself in the process. lol. I thought I'd try to reach out to signature solar too to asked them if they concur with the growatt reps suggestions. 3 steps forward 2.9 steps back. But that .1 percent step slowly adds up. Thanks again.

 

[Bluedog225]

And they are pretty decent about not dumping on new guys in the beginner’s area.

 

[schmism]

I am off grid. I have very little energy needs beyond charging the car. I probably don't use more than 1000 watts on everything else. I have 1800 watts of panels installed now with another 3000 worth ready to go. Waiting on clamps.

you got a lot to catch up on before you dive in to this. You have (assuming) sitting in front of you 10Kw of inverter which together support 11kw of PV.

With ideal conditions (in the summer) you'll be able to generate about 9kw of energy from the PV array in a day. Divide that by 24hrs and you get 750w. This time of year (for NA) you'll be making half that.

Running both inverters will likely consume about ~100w of your 750w you have available (on a good day)

 

[MrM1]

Ian from Watts247 has some pretty straight forward videos where he basically fires up inverters on the bench with solar panels laying in the yard. Might be helpful

https://youtube.com/channel/UCXVNL-mnf_vfD_qT7jLjtcg

 

[toms]

I'm pretty desperate at this point so I'll pay whatever.

Please don’t get scammed!

Plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum that will help you for free. (as already demonstrated)

My advice is pick one person and follow just their advice (read a lot of their replies and previous advise to pick someone that has a lot of experience)

Otherwise you will get a lot of conflicting information, and may be more confused than when you started.