Onehand
Solar Enthusiast
WOW, I cant believe that one pic of that square flange on that pathetic, small round of concrete footer column, morons.
Lesson Learned: Solar Carport Foundation and Jhook Size/Location
- Thread starter Will Prowse
- Start date
jeeptj12
Noob
Good rule of thumb is a min. of 6" and up to 12" concrete beyond the base plate. They probably wet stuck the J-hooks instead of tying them before the pour which is a big no-no. This is probably why the J-hook pulled up when tightening. If a P.E. designed that, they need to be turned in for lack of competency.
If you sister the bolt that is slipping, typically you need to sister two bolts on either side to replace the one. Use hilti anchors and epoxy.
If you sister the bolt that is slipping, typically you need to sister two bolts on either side to replace the one. Use hilti anchors and epoxy.
rich0
New Member
Yeah, I've seen others in the forum mention companies that will do this. You basically just do the DIY part and send it to them and they'll review and stamp. Obviously it costs something, but you're in full control and they'll probably charge a lot less. Of course you might pay for a lot of review if you don't know what you're doing as they're going to charge for every round.
It is a way to due full DIY but still get permits/interconnects/etc.
windsurfer
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2022
- Messages
- 126
I don't understand how your "fix" fixes anything. Your anchors are still in compromised concrete.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Yep, large stress fracture that can't be fixed.
That's what I'm working on right now. You're right. Might need to rip it all out
bestconcreteblock
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2022
- Messages
- 165
I wonder if you could shift everything off-center of the piers and use all new holes/anchors... but that would put some anchors in the new and some in the old...
WorldwideDave
Solar Wizard
someone had suggested a larger base plate attached to the new concrete (not j-hooks, but drilling holes and putting studs into the cement and epoxy), then attaching the carport's footings to this new structure. Will definitely will figure it out, and let us know the outcome. Just a matter of time.
BigGun
Solar Enthusiast
Your J Bolts need to be tied to a Rebar structure inside the concrete, the concrete just holds it all together. How are those pillars even tied to the original driveway, hopefully it was cut through and reinforced with a footing. Would of been a lot easier to have longer post 
WorldwideDave
Solar Wizard
I feel like at this point everyone is becoming a concrete/footings/rebar expert...Will knows it's wrong (not his fault - talked to experts who weren't which sometimes happens), he's learned from it, he'll never do it again with them, he'll show us the fix, and we'll all move on cheering for him.Your J Bolts need to be tied to a Rebar structure inside the concrete, the concrete just holds it all together. How are those pillars even tied to the original driveway, hopefully it was cut through and reinforced with a footing. Would of been a lot easier to have longer post
Wish I did the same with the spacing. My 1” rods are 21” long and embedded 18”. I had the room but no source for additional nuts.
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My main worry with this whole thing is that it's really not hard to go wrong anyway so it's not just a clerical necessity. Or conversely: you can save money if you figure out the cheapest way to do it safely (and that's not easy with just guessing).
If people want to still DIY the design of large structures: they should at least become good with something like SAP2000 and then find someone to submit it.
At worst you are covered legally and at best you did it correctly and found the lowest cost possible and still did it safely.
Though I would still caution against being too overconfident because mistakes can be made (eg missing wind loads).
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BigGun
Solar Enthusiast
In so many words I am an expert, considering I grew up in a construction company family and had my own company close to 40 yrs. Most engineers are taught and gain experience, I've lived it. In my opinion, once something structural is wrong, you need to go back to Step #1
Wills a big boy and admitted / showed us this debacle, Really I don't think he needs you to hold his hand.
Original contractor came out. The failed j hook was not a j hook. One of the workers cut this one so it would fit in that spot. All the others are at proper torque spec and should be fine he said.
He said if it was a j hook we would have to repour it. But it pulled out with the wrench in a few seconds:
So he's going to do a 18in epoxy bolt tomorrow morning. He said the rest of the bolts are just fine. He said the engineer had the other jhooks wrap around the rebar, and they had the proper distance from the edge for it to be to code.
But I am wondering who to trust. Chiko had two guys come out and check all of this before the pour.
But how did this bolt with the j hook cut off make it past all these people? He said the other bolts couldn't reach torque spec if they were cut like this, so he thinks it is only this bolt and not the others.
Again, I am no expert here. I think whoever cut this j hook caused the biggest issue.
Contractor said that all the concrete I added on the sides wont change anything, strength wise. He said the strength is the j hooks and the cage of rebar they attached it to that goes into the ground. He said that the engineer and company said it is more than enough to hold the structure down.
I just have a tough time trusting it if this one pulled out. But the others would pull out too if they were cut.
Now I am just repeating myself. What do you guys think?
He said once he epoxies a huge bolt that goes really deep and lets me torque it myself, it will be fine. He also said they use 3/8 anchors for most permitted shade structures and never had one fail. He said for the size of this shade and the uplift, this is more overengineered than anything hes installed before.
I just have a tough time knowing what to do.
He said if it was a j hook we would have to repour it. But it pulled out with the wrench in a few seconds:
So he's going to do a 18in epoxy bolt tomorrow morning. He said the rest of the bolts are just fine. He said the engineer had the other jhooks wrap around the rebar, and they had the proper distance from the edge for it to be to code.
But I am wondering who to trust. Chiko had two guys come out and check all of this before the pour.
But how did this bolt with the j hook cut off make it past all these people? He said the other bolts couldn't reach torque spec if they were cut like this, so he thinks it is only this bolt and not the others.
Again, I am no expert here. I think whoever cut this j hook caused the biggest issue.
Contractor said that all the concrete I added on the sides wont change anything, strength wise. He said the strength is the j hooks and the cage of rebar they attached it to that goes into the ground. He said that the engineer and company said it is more than enough to hold the structure down.
I just have a tough time trusting it if this one pulled out. But the others would pull out too if they were cut.
Now I am just repeating myself. What do you guys think?
He said once he epoxies a huge bolt that goes really deep and lets me torque it myself, it will be fine. He also said they use 3/8 anchors for most permitted shade structures and never had one fail. He said for the size of this shade and the uplift, this is more overengineered than anything hes installed before.
I just have a tough time knowing what to do.
fuzzmunky415
Solar Wizard
Post mortems aren't typically fulfilling...usually resolving to more questions than answers. How many other anchors are potentially at risk? How will sinking a new bolt in compromised concrete truly resolve a proper Anchorage? It's a good thing you aren't in any particular hurry, so you can gain as much info as possible before deciding on a course of action.
Because it's super long, reaching far below that concrete. And because it wasn't a hook, it shouldn't be that compromised. He said it needs to reach the concrete below regardless. Because yes, it is damaged, but not a failed j hook damaged. He was willing to repour it if it was a jhook
fuzzmunky415
Solar Wizard
WIll, was there any documentation high strength concrete (6000+ psi) was used? I know you were 'told', but does any work order or receipt divulge the concrete strength at delivery?
oh I'm always in a hurry
He's getting those papers and I'm looking up today what Chiko told them. I emailed and texted Chiko and no response.
I'm filming a video right now so this whole thing is driving me nuts.
I wish people did their job. I'm trying to build another system right now and going to home Depot. Also have guys working on my metal building roof.
I need to work now guys, will be back later.
outboard1196
I go victron victron victron, I'm a victron guy.
You have any pictures of construction?
Today's development leaves more questions then answers unfortunately.
fuzzmunky415
Solar Wizard
For a standard pergola or 'shade structure', 3 foot deep concrete encapsulated posts are typical. This is not a 'shade structure'...I'm surprised he would even bring this up, and is revealing to me he's in over is head. Sure at first blush it LOOKS over-engineered, but when 'you know', you know.
And yes I'm well aware the compromised cracked concrete is weak and useless. I understand.
That's what I'm working on today
BigGun
Solar Enthusiast
You definitely have some sort of shear/ stress going on at that joint. The problem is concrete doesn't flex, it cracks, where as the rest of the structure (steel ) is constantly flexing. This carport design doesn't have the possibility of this problem when mounted to a slab flat on the ground. For every inch you raised it on piers, you increase the shear/ stress points.
Hein sight , you would of been better off using extra post upside down 4ft in the ground sticking 2 ft up, then mount your carport post to them. The rule of thumb usually is 2 x the length stick out/ in / up. If this would of been a wood structure, I wouldn't even attempt that post splice
Hein sight , you would of been better off using extra post upside down 4ft in the ground sticking 2 ft up, then mount your carport post to them. The rule of thumb usually is 2 x the length stick out/ in / up. If this would of been a wood structure, I wouldn't even attempt that post splice