LFP Safety

[sunshine_eggo]

LFP is touted as "safe" and "non-toxic." While certainly among the safest of Lithium options, it is not non-toxic by any measure. The electrolyte is very nasty stuff.

Here is an MSDS:

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC191260050&productDescription=LITHIUM+HEXAFLUOROPHOSPH+5GR&vendorId=VN00032119&countryCode=US&language=en

"This chemical is considered hazardous by the 2012 OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200)"

"Acute oral toxicity: Category 3
Skin Corrosion/Irritation: Category 1 A
Serious Eye Damage/Eye Irritation: Category 1
Specific target organ toxicity (single exposure): Category 3
Target Organs - Respiratory system.

Specific target organ toxicity - (repeated exposure) Category 1
Target Organs - Bone, Teeth."

Category 1 is the most severe.

So while I think many of the "old folks" on here get this, and it's not news to them, for all the new members, do not believe for a second that these things are "non-toxic" as many marketing materials and information sites indicate.

Much like you would not inhale the fumes, rinse your hands in it or rub it in your eyes - the sulfuric acid from FLA batteries, you would not do the same with the LFP electrolyte.

LFP electrolyte is hazardous, and it should be treated accordingly. Describing LFP as "non-toxic" is an outright lie.

 

[Substrate]

That's great information. I might add that if you smell a "strange-perfume", that may indicate a leak. Once smelled, you'll never forget it. Just note that there's a difference between putting your nostril directly on the case, as compared to wondering why your garage smells like the perfume-counter in the mall.

Not all LFP electrolyte is the same however. For instance, the GBS prismatic cells (blue cases with purple top covers), purposely tones down their electrolyte to be a bit less toxic in case of a crash with ruptures in EV's.

In their case, their electrolyte additives purposely sacrificed some performance for less toxicity in case of catastrophic failure.

 

[curiouscarbon]

That's great information. I might add that if you smell a "strange-perfume", that may indicate a leak. Once smelled, you'll never forget it.

The 100Ah CALB LiFePO4 cells that I received were packaged in sealed pouches

Upon opening the pouch, there was a faint "strange-perfume" scent that kind of reminded me of dr. pepper soda.

It went away after one day. But I do remember it. Seemingly no leak. Concluded it was residual from manufacture.

Not all LFP electrolyte is the same however. For instance, the GBS prismatic cells (blue cases with purple top covers), purposely tones down their electrolyte to be a bit less toxic in case of a crash with ruptures in EV's. In their case, their electrolyte additives purposely sacrificed some performance for less toxicity in case of catastrophic failure.

Wow, Neat!


If it ever became "strong" smell then I would have removed them from the enclosed space and maybe permanent decommission.

thanks for the reminder that these cells are still to be respected for safety.

 

[Substrate]

Oh you'll know when you smell it. Sometimes a very very faint smell when you put the nostril to the case is actually more the smell of the plastic prismatic itself.

But yeah, it *IS* electrolyte and not to be fooled with. If you smell perfume in any significant way, SHUT DOWN and GET OUT. Do not breathe it in. Or get some fans going (without blowing it on someone else!) for sure.

Most responsible manufacturers have the data-sheet warnings about what to do if you get it in your eye, skin, or mouth.

That being said, consider consumer-level LiFePO4 solar garden lights. They are not designed for performance, hence their electrolyte *can be* less toxic, but still, it would be wise to warn children that if they smell perfume from a light, notify the adult in charge.

 

[Ampster]

The smell reminded me of Ether, the two times I had some leak out of cells. I was a "sweet" smell.

 

[RCinFLA]

You did pick the correct component. LiPF6 is the lithium salt dissolved into solvent to create Li+ and PF6- free floating ions. Electrolyte is a transfer ‘conveyor belt’ for Li ion movement between cathode and anode of cell. It is fluorine that is the nasty part. Fluorine is a uni-valent poisonous gaseous halogen, it is pale yellow-green and it is the most chemically reactive and electronegative of all the elements.

Fluorine is normally bound in the salt compound ion PF6- so relatively safe if not broken down (like from overcharging). It is also fairly low concentration in the electrolyte. This makes it relatively safe.

The solvent for the electrolyte is the greatest volume of material in electrolyte. They call it an organic solvent, which environmentally nice way of saying it is hydrocarbon, like petroleum products. Ethylene Carbonate C3H4O3 (EC), Dimethyl Carbonate C3H6O3 (DC), are some of the typical solvents used in electrolyte. Flash point of EC is 150 degs C. Dimethyl Carbonate (DC) is much more flammable with a flash point of 17 degs C and low vapor pressure. DC is used in very low concentration to improve low temp performance. EC is the most common used and greatest volume. It is fairly safe. Most all lithium ion battery types use similar electrolyte mix.

It is the electrolyte solvent that catches fire but it does not ignite easy. More like fuel oil. When it gets supplemented by oxygen from cathode lithium ion battery chemistries things get more exciting. LFP does not produce too much oxygen like other lithium cathode chemistries which is primary reason LFP is considered safer. LFP cathode is more rugged and stable than other lithium ion battery types.

When a cell bloats it is mostly carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide gas but there can be some small amount of fluorine compound gases also.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I don't know... I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Under my sink I have an assortment of chemicals that are pretty much as toxic, like bleach and ammonia, and quite a few that really catch fire, like cleaning alcohol and acetone.
Safety data sheets for bleach state that you must use gloves to handle it. I soak my fingers in it if my fingernails get really grimy :·)

So, I'm not saying it's not toxic, just not in ways that worry me.
It's a bit like the old shed on the land I recently bought. It has an asbestos roof. I'm not going to change it until the Council makes me.
-

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I don't know... I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Under my sink I have an assortment of chemicals that are pretty much as toxic, like bleach and ammonia, and quite a few that really catch fire, like cleaning alcohol and acetone.
Safety data sheets for bleach state that you must use gloves to handle it. I soak my fingers in it if my fingernails get really grimy :·)

So, I'm not saying it's not toxic, just not in ways that worry me.
It's a bit like the old shed on the land I recently bought. It has an asbestos roof. I'm not going to change it until the Council makes me.
-

When product labels tell you how toxic/poisonous/flammable they are, that's one thing.

It's entirely another matter when a product is portrayed as "green", "non-toxic," "safe for the environment," etc., but it isn't.

 

[time2roll]

Is there any type of detector to sense the electrolyte fumes early? Something like a CO/smoke detector?

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I wasn't aware LFP was touted as such. All claims I've seen were in the order of it being less toxic than Li-ion.
_

 

[Don B. Cilly]

Is there any type of detector to sense the electrolyte fumes early? Something like a CO/smoke detector?

Yes, it's called a nose :·)
According to my son (who keeps patiently explaining to me why it's almost impossible to develop an "electronic nose") humans have 6 million olfactory receptors, dogs 300 million :·)
-

 

[curiouscarbon]

Is there any type of detector to sense the electrolyte fumes early? Something like a CO/smoke detector?

not sure about detecting electrolyte, but a particle sensor like this one would notice early signs of a fire https://www.adafruit.com/product/4632

inside is a light sensor and a laser, it counts air particles like being in a dark room with dust illuminated in a sunbeam

 

[RCinFLA]

Probably the cheapest and most common monitor you can buy is a fire alarm detector with carbon monoxide detector.

The carbon monoxide detector will go off. Carbon monoxide detectors will also alarm from hydrogen gas given off from overcharging a lead-acid battery.

 

[Coydon]

I don't know about the 'green' advertising (though I have picked up the inferred sense of safety somehow), but it took me a few hours of poking around the net and this website to stumble across this info. All 'safety' text I've seen is about fire potential, nothing helpful about toxicity. The Wikipedia article has nothing explicit as of Feb '24 on electrolyte or toxic elements. The first random MSDS I scanned over looked like the 50 page booklet you get when you order a peanut butter sandwich in California- tons of alarmist warnings, nothing to help with practical understanding. I came here looking for MSDS sheets specific to Ganfeng and followed a few intuitive links to get here. Am I missing something in the FAQ here that this isn't somehow prioritized?

 

[stromy]

I came here looking for MSDS sheets specific to Ganfeng and followed a few intuitive links to get here. Am I missing something in the FAQ here that this isn't somehow prioritized?

a quick google search gave me this:

https://files.bbystatic.com/CtaqKPPoReFtFnPvhwZtYQ%3D%3D/MSDS

The different manufacturers more or less all use the same materials. So any safety datasheet from any manufacturer should do, e.g.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Material-Safety-Data-Sheet-Lithium-ion-batteries-EN.pdf

 

[SparkyJJO]

The first random MSDS I scanned over looked like the 50 page booklet you get when you order a peanut butter sandwich in California- tons of alarmist warnings, nothing to help with practical understanding.

 

[Coydon]

a quick google search gave me this:

https://files.bbystatic.com/CtaqKPPoReFtFnPvhwZtYQ%3D%3D/MSDS

The different manufacturers more or less all use the same materials. So any safety datasheet from any manufacturer should do, e.g.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Material-Safety-Data-Sheet-Lithium-ion-batteries-EN.pdf

Thanks, that actually helps a lot. The one I came up with before remembering the brand name of mine was https://www.continentalbattery.com/assets/Lithium_Safety_Data_Sheet.pdf. Seems to me written like more of a narrative- I didn't see the paragraph at the beginning of section 2 at first and the rest of it read like random data to me. Or maybe I'm just reading too much to fast lately...

The Ganfeng MSDS reads like actual reference material. They make it clear in each section when they are talking about the battery as a whole and when it is in the case of a leak/puncture.

Is there guide for safe handling/disposal of an actively leaking cell? Ganfeng lists (proprietary) for the electrolyte so I'll have to assume it is the hexafluronasty shit, though I've read there are three common options of varying safety levels, can't find that resource ATM. I'm guessing certain metals will react. Are certain types of plastic safe/hazardous in contact with the electrolytes? Do I need some sort of towel to soak everything up?

Where the electrolyte leaked onto the unfinished wood floor, is it likely to continue to be a hazard? Anything to be done to clean it short of ripping out the whole board(s)?

 

[stromy]

i am not a hazmat guy, so i can not give you definite advice. For what i know, most countries have slightly different procedures and standards on how to handle hazmat materials. So it is probably best, if you ask some local firefighters or chemists/pharmacists for local details.

You can look up some procedures here: https://www.hazmattool.com/info.php . Search for the CAS numbers and click to the "Emergency Response Guide"

In general, if the battery overheats/burns, you have all the risks of burning plastic, PVC, aluminium, lithium, etc.
If the battery only leaks, your main problem is the hexafluorphosphate. This will form hydrofluoric acid when it gets in contact with any water (even humidity in air). So using water is a NO-NO-NO.
If you have to remove this stuff, first vent the location with an industrial size blower (like firefighters use them), then soak the liquid in dry paper towels, Clean up using 100% isopropanol. You also will need special chemistry gloves, eye/face protection.
Let the soaked towels dry outside, then dispose them according to your local rules.
Instead of the paper towels, you can also use cat litter materials.
If the liquid has soaked into other nearby materials, you have to remove that materials.