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Lion Energy vs Battle Born

1ram

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Lion Energy UT1300 @ 0.79/KWh finally outpriced Battle Born 100Ah @ 0.73/KWh. Am I the only one who thinks that is a bit out of touch with reality, even if it weighs slightly less? That's a killer premium.

 
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Lifetime warranty vs 10 years. The idea that they're "guaranteed for life" speaks to a lot of people... "I'm already spending a crapload of money on these things, what's another $150 to get a lifetime warranty?"

150A discharge vs. 100A
23 lb vs. 31 lb
Smaller
Longer quoted cycle life.
 
Personally I think both are insanely priced. If I had something that my life depended on daily or weekly, I'd consider buying BB for a few seconds. Then I'd probably just buy 2 or 3 of something else.

BB is great for people with unlimited budgets who have zero technical ability. If you want someone to build a system for you and never touch it again (i.e. neglect it) then sure, probably a good option.

If you're not rich, there are other perfectly stable options for sealed batteries and WAY better options for DIY packs. My 105kWh bank cost me roughly $15k for everything. Batteries, BMS, wiring, safety switches. You'd be at $60k+ for a BB setup equal to mine.
 
I am amazed they can sell any with ampere time, chins, redodo and powerqueen offering 100ah for around $300.00 or so. You could buy these 3 times over and still come out ahead.
 
I am amazed they can sell any with ampere time, chins, redodo and powerqueen offering 100ah for around $300.00 or so. You could buy these 3 times over and still come out ahead.

When you have a $500,000 RV, what's $10K on batteries?

For many it's more important that they know they're going to get top notch service and support. If they call a phone number, someone in the U.S. is going to answer it, and they're going to get resolution with a minimum of effort.

For the bottom of the barrel options, the first step in support is often overcoming a language barrier.
 
That's true. Just understand if you own a $500kRV you live in the top 5% in America and in the top 1% globally. You're the exception not the rule.
 
That's true. Just understand if you own a $500kRV you live in the top 5% in America and in the top 1% globally. You're the exception not the rule.

Targeting the top 1% or 5% of the market is typically a very good business plan especially if you're charging a premium and offering exceptional service. Someone spending that kind of money isn't going to tolerate the hassle of a heated battery that terminates discharge when charging is removed, and the shops that support them don't want to waste several hours dealing with a company that can't speak English or says, "try cycling it several times."

Don't get me wrong. You'll never see me buying either, nor am I anywhere near the top 5%. I have worked in aviation my entire career and see how costs can be incredibly high. A single hour of operation of a light helicopter like a MD500 or B206 costs about what a battleborn battery does. I don't like it, but that doesn't change anything, and it doesn't make it stupid or insane.
 
I'm pretty sure the 1% is using stuff from companies like https://lithionicsbattery.com/ not battle born / lion energy. These batteries are UL certified with crash impact testing and other certifications.

They are not cheap, figure around $1700.00 for a 100AH lithium battery. But they have stuff that is insane like 1200 AH 12v banks that are integrated inside the winnebago, thor, and other stuff. Plus they integrate with the built in infotainment system of the RV.

I learned about this company a few months, and they are the top dog for OEMs. Also all of there tech is USA made and they appear to be using winston / sino-poly cells.

So yeah, the top 1% are going with OEM solutions, not after market like Battleborn / Lion Energy. I don't know what the future holds for these guys, it is getting ruthless and amazon is filled with direct Chinese manufactured products.
 
Lifetime warranty vs 10 years. The idea that they're "guaranteed for life" speaks to a lot of people... "I'm already spending a crapload of money on these things, what's another $150 to get a lifetime warranty?"

150A discharge vs. 100A
23 lb vs. 31 lb
Smaller
Longer quoted cycle life.

I do not believe that they have a lifetime warranty at all. Am I reading thes wrong?
 

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I do not believe that they have a lifetime warranty at all. Am I reading thes wrong?
Their advertising states "limited lifetime warranty". They also state "it can be drained and recharge over 3,500 times".

I suspect, like manufactures of many things, they mean the "lifetime" of the product, not _your_ lifetime. So once you get to 3,501 recharges it has reached its lifetime; though maybe @sunshine_eggo can clarify if he has some (wasn't clear from posting #2).
 
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I am sure that it does mean something like that. I recently saw a post about a certain State limiting "limited Lifetime Warranty" to 10 years. The consumers in that state get to subsidize the warranty to those in other States.

Ironically 3500 cycles is 9.59 years of daily cycling.
 
If these Enduro batteries are legit, they seem to offer a competitive alternative to Lion or BB at that 3000+ cycle quality. The price point of Renogy and Ampere, you can replace them at 5 years (warranty expiration) assuming that is the useful life and still come out ahead if the whole lot needed to be replaced. Not as strong of an argument if Lion/BB truly get you well over 10 years.

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Enduro looks to be an ampere time battery with a Big markup.
Do you have any info on this? If so that would be sad, Enduro appears to be claiming the cycle life >80% that is more consistent with Lion or BB than Ampere
 
No I do not I just looked at there case and its an E&J case, also there BMS is E&J

Ampere time also uses E&J BMS (sold as VIP BMS) and there case are similar.

Here is there battery: http://www.ejbattery.com/ they sell complete batteries, cases, and BMS units.
 
No I do not I just looked at there case and its an E&J case, also there BMS is E&J

Ampere time also uses E&J BMS (sold as VIP BMS) and there case are similar.

Here is there battery: http://www.ejbattery.com/ they sell complete batteries, cases, and BMS units.
Thanks for the link, if it's a copy, definitely not worth the premium over Ampere. 2x the cost for 2x the "warranty"
 
I don't know if its a clone.

What I said it looks like an amperetime/chins/redodo/china seller battery.

Here is there listing of products

 
I don't know if its a clone.

What I said it looks like an amperetime/chins/redodo/china seller battery.

Here is there listing of products

When you start to need a lot of batteries because Lion and BB have limited 24V options, its really difficult to justify that kind of differential.

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