Lishen 272ah Cells Aluminum Case Positive?

Gazoo

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Regarding Lishen cells, it has been pointed out here that what is seen between the aluminum case and the negative terminal is considerable leakage current.. With EVE cells it was confirmed here when measuring between the cells negative and the aluminum case there was very little leakage current.

It would be helpful if anyone else can test one of their Lishen cells by applying some type of load between the negative terminal and the aluminum case. Please do it safely. The Lishen spec sheet does note to not connect the raw aluminum cases together but I am surprised they don't mention the aluminum case is positive, and they don't note it in their drawings. So if anyone can confirm that the case is tied to positive, and/or the amount of leakage current it would be appreciated.

It's very possible other manufacturers are designing their cells with the case positive. So this is a general warning that could apply to any manufacturer regardless if it's noted in the spec sheet or not.

For anyone planning to clamp their cells tight, especially in a mobile application, it is suggested to put an insulator between the cells and do not rely only on the PVC wrap for insulation.
 
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Dzl

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Interesting topic, I will be following along. (y)

I think your first link is broken
 

Gazoo

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Thanks for catching that. I fixed the link.
 
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Steve_S

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I happen to have 4 EVE-280LF's
2x PN 02YCB66110000H and 2x PN 02YCB66710000J
The aluminium casing is (+). Just checked with DMM, Neg probe in neg terminal, Pos probe touching metal under plastic covering.
I know that my 174AH cells are isolated, the casing is neutral.

It has always been good practice to line any metal casing that your installing batteries into with a non-conductive liner, bottom, sides and over the top in some instances. Better yet, ABS Platsic casings or even wood with these cells (never pressure treated or such though).
 
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Gazoo

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The aluminium casing is (+). Just checked with DMM, Neg probe in neg terminal, Pos probe touching metal under plastic covering.
We know. But is it leakage current as confirmed in the other thread I linked to, or something more severe. To know for sure you need to put a load on it and go from there.
 

JimJr

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LTO's have the same problem . When they fill with electrolyte they over fill to a point that there is electrolyte between the case and anode or
cathode to cause a current flow .
 

rhino

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It has always been good practice to line any metal casing that your installing batteries into with a non-conductive liner, bottom, sides and over the top in some instances. Better yet, ABS Platsic casings or even wood with these cells (never pressure treated or such though).
I think the main takeaway I got from the original post is that an insulating sheet should be placed between cells as well which I have only occasionally seen done.
 

michael d

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my second supplier of Lishen 272Ah cells also noted to me to put insulating sheets between the cells and under the. I have not done this yet, but have no real information on the leakage topic/potential problem. hope to read more actual detailed information if it is a real problem or not? :cool:
 

Gazoo

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my second supplier of Lishen 272Ah cells also noted to me to put insulating sheets between the cells and under the. I have not done this yet, but have no real information on the leakage topic/potential problem. hope to read more actual detailed information if it is a real problem or not? :cool:
From the Lishen spec. sheet:

6.9 Don’t contact cans directly or with other conductive materails during the using process.
 

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Metalophile

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Ha! So it is good that I built my battery inside a plastic ice chest and put plastic spacers between the cells! I always cringe a little when I see someone build their battery box inside a painted metal case. What happens after years of jostling about when some of the paint or insulation wear down in critical spots??
 

Gazoo

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Ha! So it is good that I built my battery inside a plastic ice chest and put plastic spacers between the cells! I always cringe a little when I see someone build their battery box inside a painted metal case. What happens after years of jostling about when some of the paint or insulation wear down in critical spots??
I hear you. I was actually surprised by the reports of EVE cells having positive voltage on the cells case. It was determined to be leakage current and nothing to be concerned about. But after reading and hearing about the Lishen cells, I am suggesting placing some kind of insulator between the cells, no matter who the manufacturer is. Especially if being used in a mobile environment. Better safe than sorry.
 

michael d

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I happen to have 4 EVE-280LF's
2x PN 02YCB66110000H and 2x PN 02YCB66710000J
The aluminium casing is (+). Just checked with DMM, Neg probe in neg terminal, Pos probe touching metal under plastic covering.
I know that my 174AH cells are isolated, the casing is neutral.

It has always been good practice to line any metal casing that your installing batteries into with a non-conductive liner, bottom, sides and over the top in some instances. Better yet, ABS Platsic casings or even wood with these cells (never pressure treated or such though).
yes, i wonder if some are trying to manufacture problems without any real data to back it up. I am putting plastic chopping mats between all of the cells and the base of the cells is on a melamine coated particleboard. for the compression jig. the chopping board mats are sold at the dollar store 2 for 1 dollar. they are 11 inches by 14 inches(28cmx36cm for the metric folks) each so each packet of 2 mats will make 4 spacers. all will be insulated between cells. and a good idea.
but again there has been no documentation of leakage that I have seen.
fake news?
I have 64 Lishen 272Ah cells in 4 16cell 2P8S 24-volt battery packs.
I am not from Missouri but please show me any real documentation of leakage on the Lishen 272Ah prismatic aluminum cased cells.
the vendor of my second batch of 32 cells also says the cells come to them without the terminals drilled and tapped and the vendor has that done.
my cells all arrived in new perfect condition. both batches of 32 cells.
 
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Steve_S

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Well, I think some folks get hung up on Minutia or the extreme edges and blow them out of proportion.
The casings can be "hot", I have seen this myself, but that's what the wrap is about. If properly secured and no friction/rubbing occurs and the "sleeving" is intact, no issues. In fact, that further asserts the need for "Binding the Cells in the Pack".
I don't get the Missouri reference... is that supposed to mean something ?

Factories have always shipped out cells with un-tapped cells (they don't know the end-use), unless some large corporation buys a few thousand and that is specified in the purchase contract. Battery Cell "brokers" will often do it prior to reselling to end retailers. Vendors can also opt to do their own and save a few bucks by doing so in-house, and we HAVE seen some pretty bodged up cells done by someone with a hand drill (sarcasm).
 

Sky-HHI

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I am in the process of top balancing my new Lishen cells and thought I would check the leakage from the negative terminal and the cells outer case. I took my meter and measured voltage between the neg terminal and the QR code metal plate , found 3.40 volts. then I took 12 volt landscape light bulbs to see if I could light them with the leakage voltage. The 12 v incandescent bulb would not light, the larger 12 v led bulb would not light, but the small 12 v bulb would light up with it's leads between the neg terminal and the QR code metal plate. Very interesting ????
 

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michael d

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Well, I think some folks get hung up on Minutia or the extreme edges and blow them out of proportion.
The casings can be "hot", I have seen this myself, but that's what the wrap is about. If properly secured and no friction/rubbing occurs and the "sleeving" is intact, no issues. In fact, that further asserts the need for "Binding the Cells in the Pack".
I don't get the Missouri reference... is that supposed to mean something ?

Factories have always shipped out cells with un-tapped cells (they don't know the end-use), unless some large corporation buys a few thousand and that is specified in the purchase contract. Battery Cell "brokers" will often do it prior to reselling to end retailers. Vendors can also opt to do their own and save a few bucks by doing so in-house, and we HAVE seen some pretty bodged up cells done by someone with a hand drill (sarcasm).
Missouri is known as "the show me State".

yes, quality control may be lacking in the hand drillers.🤣🤣
I am waiting on a drill press to do some precision drilling I need to do.

thanks for your reply.
 

Steve_S

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If you are drilling your own with a Drill Press, be certain to set the depth gauge to 6MM, past 8mm your inside.
If you make a little jig with wood in the base, to set the cell into that centers it to the bit, it will make life MUCH easier and less stressful, especially if you have several to do.
 

michael d

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If you are drilling your own with a Drill Press, be certain to set the depth gauge to 6MM, past 8mm your inside.
If you make a little jig with wood in the base, to set the cell into that centers it to the bit, it will make life MUCH easier and less stressful, especially if you have several to do.
no thank goodness I do not have to drill the terminal and tap them (the battery cells) myself. they all came pre-drilled and tapped with 6mm studs or bolts. I changed out all the provided bolts for studs. no, I need to drill more accurate holes for my compression jig for compressing the battery cells.
all mine (272Ah Lishen cells) are for a stationary off-grid power on the farm in South Dakota.
20mm long x 6mm studs worked better than the bolts for me --- safer for me installing the interconnecting bus bars and cable lugs.
slow but sure.
yes, I measured the depth with the digital micrometer and the holes are not very deep. I bought some Permatex high strength threadlocker for the studs but have not utilized it yet.
I think that is super info in case I had to re-tap one though. thanks😎
 

Gazoo

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but again there has been no documentation of leakage that I have seen.
fake news?
If I thought it was fake news I would not have started this thread and posted the information from the Lishen data sheet. 🙄

There have been two people that have found leakage current with EVE cells. Steve and upnorthandpersonal. And there have been two people that have found leakage current with their Lishen cells. DouglasHHI and Bud Martin as reported in this thread. This is not fake news :)

The reason I started this thread was because when leakage current was first reported with the EVE cells I didn't think it was a big deal. When I read what Bud Martin posted I changed my mind and I felt it appropriate to start this thread since I had also been posting leakage current wasn't a big deal. It was the only way I knew to admit my lack of concern was wrong, and to warn others out of an abundance of caution.
 

michael d

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If I thought it was fake news I would not have started this thread and posted the information from the Lishen data sheet. 🙄

There have been two people that have found leakage current with EVE cells. Steve and upnorthandpersonal. And there have been two people that have found leakage current with their Lishen cells. DouglasHHI and Bud Martin as reported in this thread. This is not fake news :)

The reason I started this thread was because when leakage current was first reported with the EVE cells I didn't think it was a big deal. When I read what Bud Martin posted I changed my mind and I felt it appropriate to start this thread since I had also been posting leakage current wasn't a big deal. It was the only way I knew to admit my lack of concern was wrong, and to warn others out of an abundance of caution.
ok I will insulate between cells as I was doing anyways; at the suggestion of the vendor and the NEC guide. I misread some and some were not yet posted. is there any quantitative measurement of the amount of leakage?
sec 6.9 in the Lishen spec sheet does not say anything about leakage voltage. or the case being connected to the positive or negative electrode. or what am I missing? i may be wrong on the reading of the spec sheet .. i will read it again.
yes someone is reading something into Lishen specification sec 6.9 that is not there.
but the NEC does require an insulator between the metal battery case.
I guess that is why the cells with plastic cases cost more. they have added the required layer of insulation for NEC requirements.
please don't get me wrong safety is paramount when working with high voltage dc batteries. I in no way intend to offend anyone.
but I want to see documentation so I can address the issue on my 64 Lishen 272Ah cells correctly.
I will do my best to make it all safe. :cool:
 
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