Looking for a Better Cold Weather LiP04 Battery

[Northern Maple]

I made the mistake buying a 24V 100A Renology battery in the belief that its built-in battery warmer would be more effective in keeping my battery running during Canadian winters when the temp drops to -20'C overnight. I figured that a built-in heater would be more efficient than installing an external heater and insulating my battery compartment (that also houses my solar converter, inverter, etc.).

Total mistake, the built-in heater somehow consumes so many amps that it drained a fully charged battery in under 9 hours. Worse, the BMS refused to allow my solar charger to recharge the drained battery when the sun came up.

It would have been better for the BMS to simply prevent the battery from discharging fully overnight and remain open to recharge in the AM. How it managed to eat 2400 AHR is beyond me.

So now am looking for a "dumber" battery that I can put in an insulated container and heat externally with a heating pad or lightbulb, (open for suggestions).
Still need cold weather protection, but not something that I have to jump start in the morning with an extension cord and a 24V battery charger like Renology requires.

The entire point of the system is to keep an off-grid, pair of low amp water and radiant heaters running in a chicken coop overnight.

If you live in a cold climate, what do you use for overnight electrical storage in an outdoor setting?

 

[time2roll]

OK maybe a few redundant questions that should be obvious.
Was the battery charged to 28.4 to 28.8 volts before the big discharge?
Any chance there were other loads? Hard to measure after the fact but maybe check while it is warm to verify. Water and radiant heaters sound like a substantial load ever if "low wattage". Of course these items will also run at higher duty cycle when very cold.

The battery will lose some capacity when cold. Actually the battery heater will consume substantially less if placed in an insulated box.

May actually need more battery.

 

[E. Cho]

As you have found out, heating (and cooling) uses a lot of electricity and can be expensive in terms of batteries and charging equipment.

Lead Acid or AGM Gel work in freezing conditions but at lower capacity. Lead Acid still has a 50% SoC limit to avoid reaching or running at or below.

Insulation is less expensive and maybe easier to add more and more of for the battery box and the chicken coop to keep heat in vs using electricity to generate heat. Solar only works for charging if there is bright sunshine and is limited anyway to a few mid day hours, so lots of solar panels could be needed. Is the cost worth it?

I would insulate the hell out of everything 360 degrees, add an outside vented diesel (cheaper) or propane (expensive) heater for the coldest nights, or add a small woodstove (pain to keep adding wood if too small a firebox .... search for a used BlazeKing Princess catalytic woodstove) whether you use LiFePO4 or Lead Acid.

Or, the least expensive and maybe easier is to buy chicken and eggs as needed vs trying to own, feed, water, care for, house, keep warm chickens that when cold seem more like a money pit than a savings account.

Personally, going vegan would make winter life even easier, healthier and less expensive in our cold Canadian winters. Or replace chicken and eggs with cheese, use powdered milk to make yogurt as needed, look for easier less expensive options than heating off grid chickens.

Heating with electricity is expensive.

To recommend a battery, you need to supply numbers, not guesses, as measured by a watt meter for the heating equipment being used and at temperatures and hours being used. Or guess and spend extra to buy extra. But then charging on cloudy days is a problem or is expensive.

I would go chicken free than battle winter and the costs.

 

[wpns]

heating off grid chickens

Now there’s a concept that’ll be stuck in my brain!

Yeah, put the self-heating battery in a cooler for insulation.

 

[Northern Maple]

OK maybe a few redundant questions that should be obvious.
Was the battery charged to 28.4 to 28.8 volts before the big discharge?
Any chance there were other loads? Hard to measure after the fact but maybe check while it is warm to verify. Water and radiant heaters sound like a substantial load ever if "low wattage". Of course these items will also run at higher duty cycle when very cold.

The battery will lose some capacity when cold. Actually the battery heater will consume substantially less if placed in an insulated box.

May actually need more battery.

Yes, the battery was fully charged and there were no loads.

Hard to believe I need a larger battery for a 4 W external load. I need a better battery!

 

[Northern Maple]

As you have found out, heating (and cooling) uses a lot of electricity and can be expensive in terms of batteries and charging equipment.

Lead Acid or AGM Gel work in freezing conditions but at lower capacity. Lead Acid still has a 50% SoC limit to avoid reaching or running at or below.

Insulation is less expensive and maybe easier to add more and more of for the battery box and the chicken coop to keep heat in vs using electricity to generate heat. Solar only works for charging if there is bright sunshine and is limited anyway to a few mid day hours, so lots of solar panels could be needed. Is the cost worth it?

I would insulate the hell out of everything 360 degrees, add an outside vented diesel (cheaper) or propane (expensive) heater for the coldest nights, or add a small woodstove (pain to keep adding wood if too small a firebox .... search for a used BlazeKing Princess catalytic woodstove) whether you use LiFePO4 or Lead Acid.

Or, the least expensive and maybe easier is to buy chicken and eggs as needed vs trying to own, feed, water, care for, house, keep warm chickens that when cold seem more like a money pit than a savings account.

Personally, going vegan would make winter life even easier, healthier and less expensive in our cold Canadian winters. Or replace chicken and eggs with cheese, use powdered milk to make yogurt as needed, look for easier less expensive options than heating off grid chickens.

Heating with electricity is expensive.

To recommend a battery, you need to supply numbers, not guesses, as measured by a watt meter for the heating equipment being used and at temperatures and hours being used. Or guess and spend extra to buy extra. But then charging on cloudy days is a problem or is expensive.

I would go chicken free than battle winter and the costs.

Thanks, but I have several other outdoor applications once I solve the riddle of maintaining battery performance in the cold. E.G. running a pump for my maple syrup operation.

 

[doing it different]

So for my work trailer. Made adiy a 314ah 12v case.
Has a heat mat on the bottom, heater only runs while vehicle is trying to charge the battery... BMS cuts out the battery at 3C* pads warm up the batteries from the bottom up.
takes alot of time to warm those mb31 batt up. I have 50watt pad in there.

Only heat if your charging makes the most sense to me..

 

[E. Cho]

The answer to the riddle is to use a different heat source than battery power. Otherwise you will spend many many thousands of dollars on batteries, BMS's, cables, tools, chargers, solar panels, solar panel racks and mounts or fossil fuels and generators, plus maintenance, building supplies, insulation and taxes.

Seems like you are in a horrid challenge of extreme energy wasting and have another huge wasteful energy carbon footprint with making maple syrup. Ah well, with climate change your problems of trying to create waste heat will solve itself.

 

[time2roll]

Yes, the battery was fully charged and there were no loads.

Hard to believe I need a larger battery for a 4 W external load. I need a better battery!

4 watts? What heater is 4 watts?

 

[FishHog]

Something isn’t right. Renogy heated batteries only use incoming power to warm the batteries. As in if it’s not charging the heaters shouldn’t be on.
On mine when the sun comes up and solar panels start charging that charging power turns the heaters on and until the battery is warm enough nothing goes into the battery

I’d be running another test and then returning the battery if yours constantly warms. Unless it’s older technology than their current batteries

 

[mikefitz]

I need a better battery!

Winston cells, charge and discharge down to -45deg C. No heaters needed.

 

[time2roll]

Something isn’t right. Renogy heated batteries only use incoming power to warm the batteries. As in if it’s not charging the heaters shouldn’t be on.
On mine when the sun comes up and solar panels start charging that charging power turns the heaters on and until the battery is warm enough nothing goes into the battery

I’d be running another test and then returning the battery if yours constantly warms. Unless it’s older technology than their current batteries

Maybe that is it. Batteries get cold and shut off. Batteries seem dead prematurely.

Train one of the chickens to sit on the renogy and keep it warm

 

[doing it different]

Winston cells, charge and discharge down to -45deg C. No heaters needed.

You have these?
I find some specs are way out to lunch.
Especially BMS charge settings.

 

[wpns]

You have these?
I find some specs are way out to lunch.
Especially BMS charge settings.

@Daddy Tanuki maybe? Someone has them….

 

[GreenMountains]

Chickens don’t need heat. They’re wearing down coats.

I use a small lamp oil heater to keep water from freezing. It’s made by Run Chicken.

 

[doing it different]

They’re wearing down coats.

Really?
Ducks and geese have down.

Chicken get bad feet if they get to cold.

 

[saggys]

You mentioned an inverter, if it operates off this battery the idle current alone could be a factor in depleting your battery.
Insulate your battery it will help retain the heat. I am using a SOK heated battery with insulated battery box in northern Wisconsin without much problem.

 

[wpns]

Really?
Ducks and geese have down.

Chicken get bad feet if they get to cold.

How do you get down off an elephant?

You don’t, you get down off a goose.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

@Daddy Tanuki maybe? Someone has them….

i have them but the specs they list are for professionally built systems that have all the bells and whistles, they told me flat out the way that I would be using them and the commercially available BMS's to us DIY'ers they told me to treat it like any of the other LiFePo4 battereis 3.65 top balance / 3.55 bulk / 3.45 float.

also they said to increase cycle life keep the charging temps at a max value of -5c preferably 0c was best. its not that they cannot charge and discharge at below freezing but it will shorten their life span, just not as dramatically as normal LiFePo4 where one time charging below zero can ruin the cell.

i run a home made heater system for all of my cells because i am kind of anally retentive about some things

the OP is attempting to do something I consider pretty much impossible with a premade battery in that size of a system. since he is not putting them into an insulated sealed box... he needs about four of those things....three providing power to heat themselves, and one to power his load... if he put them into an igloo with extra insulation stuffed into the voids it would not use nearly as much energy to keep itself warm.