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Looking for an all-in-one Inverter With Two Programable Auto-Start Gen Relays

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bblackstock

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I am looking to upgrade my existing Outback inverters and charge controllers to a single all-in-one system. I have taken a close look at both Growatt and the LV6548, both very capable with similar features. My issue is I need two programmable trigger relays to auto-start my generator and from what I read neither of these units support this.

Reason for two relay's
1) Start generator when voltage is below a certain threshold (simple, both have this)
2) Start generator once a week to exercise generator. (Keep generator operational and lubed up)

During the summer time I could go for 6 months plus without ever having to start generator due to the fact that the solar keeps batteries charged. Issue is when I actually need the generator, things just get gummed up if I don't run it at least once a week. I do not live at this location, it is a vacation home, so I can't just start it manually. I looked at the Sol-Ark and they have this feature, but I can't see spending that kind of money for those units.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
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Is this full off-grid or with grid power charging as well? Do you have a separate ATS that can switch for you or do you need an all-in-one that can manage a grid AC input and a separate generator input?
 
I have a Raspberry Pi (with an 8-channel ADC tophat card on it), which I've used with voltage-divider circuits to get voltage sensing (within any range), and with that one could build some python code to watch multiple voltages on different channels, and add logic to start, hold, and stop a generator using output signaling.

I've used it to monitor my AC power status at home, and send me an email if the power went out (and another email when the power comes back on). It would be easy to make it start a generator based on a if, then, else condition. Also to set cron tasks to have it periodically start the generator for maintenance durations.

Or maybe you're looking for something a bit more turn-key, which is understandable, just putting out the idea in case it sounded interesting to someone.
 
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I believe Victron will do both - except I think the exercise the generator is monthly.
Multiplus or Quattro w/ Cerbo (the generator on/off relay is on the Cerbo.
(Edited).
I missed you wanted an all-in-one.
 
I am 100% off grid, so the AC Input would be from generator. The Raspberry Pi concept might be a bit much (super interesting however), yeah looking more for a turn-key all-in-one unit.
 
bblackstock said:
Reason for two relay's
1) Start generator when voltage is below a certain threshold (simple, both have this)
2) Start generator once a week to exercise generator. (Keep generator operational and lubed up)
Click to expand...
most of the all in ones will do 1)
I know of none that will do 2) as that is not a concern of the inverter. Most exercise programs I've seen are built into the generator monitoring software that runs the generator as the exercise program is a 100% generator health issue nothign to do with power management.
 
Samsonite801 said:
I have a Raspberry Pi (with an 8-channel ADC tophat card on it), which I've used with voltage-divider circuits to get voltage sensing (within any range), and with that one could build some python code to watch multiple voltages on different channels, and add logic to start, hold, and stop a generator using output signaling.

I've used it to monitor my AC power status at home, and send me an email if the power went out (and another email when the power comes back on). It would be easy to make it start a generator based on a if, then, else condition. Also to set cron tasks to have it periodically start the generator for maintenance durations.

Or maybe you're looking for something a bit more turn-key, which is understandable, just putting out the idea in case it sounded interesting to someone.
Click to expand...
Quick question Samsonite801 on your idea here. My existing Generator controller (Dynagen GCS300) has a 2-wire run connected to my inverter for generator auto-start based off of voltage. How do I splice/wire-in the second Raspberry Pi device? Essentially either of the devices should be able to trigger a generator start.

schmism said:
most of the all in ones will do 1)
I know of none that will do 2) as that is not a concern of the inverter. Most exercise programs I've seen are built into the generator monitoring software that runs the generator as the exercise program is a 100% generator health issue nothign to do with power management.
Click to expand...
The Sol-Ark does have a maintenance scheduler as well as a gen start on low voltage, just too damn expensive. But what you are saying makes sense, this should be the job of the generator monitoring software. Given that my existing Dynagen GCS300 controller does not have this feature, I suppose my options are 1) upgrade my Dynagen GCS300, or 2) add an additional device to trigger auto-start, and that leads to my question above, how would the wiring work for that?
 
many interesting techniques to solving the triggering issue, but no one addresses why does the generator “gum up” and need run weekly? This isn’t normal, a generator should be able to sit long periods and then start.
is it sitting in a sunny hot location and the fuel evaporates in the carb? Low quality fuel? Is the fuel tank above the gen causing it to be able to continue to get fuel to evap and build gum? Maybe this is the problem to address…

as far as all in one. I’ve been looking at midnite solars new diy units.
 
Frick said:
many interesting techniques to solving the triggering issue, but no one addresses why does the generator “gum up” and need run weekly? This isn’t normal, a generator should be able to sit long periods and then start.
is it sitting in a sunny hot location and the fuel evaporates in the carb? Low quality fuel? Is the fuel tank above the gen causing it to be able to continue to get fuel to evap and build gum? Maybe this is the problem to address…

as far as all in one. I’ve been looking at midnite solars new diy units.
Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part (as far as the engine goes). However, I know another possible reason.

Many generators will lose their residual magnetism (sufficient to get the juice going enough to produce its own field current again) if they sit too long without starting, and will require manually exciting the electromagnet on the rotor (called 'flashing' the generator)...

I have had to flash a couple generators to get them to produce power again. Some more industrial-quality generators (higher than consumer-grade) like for example my Onan 6.3kW RV generator has its own self-excitation circuit in them to automatically flash itself (using power from the start battery to excite the field circuit) each time it starts.

My Onan runs on propane, so no carb to get gummed up. I would also add that on any gasoline-powered generator with a carb, use only ethanol-free gasoline, as it has a longer shelf-life and doesn't separate as easily, and no ethanol to wreak havoc on carbs.

But not all generators have this feature (to auto-excite themselves), and can lose their ability to get themselves going again after an extended sit period.
 
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Frick said:
many interesting techniques to solving the triggering issue, but no one addresses why does the generator “gum up” and need run weekly? This isn’t normal, a generator should be able to sit long periods and then start.
is it sitting in a sunny hot location and the fuel evaporates in the carb? Low quality fuel? Is the fuel tank above the gen causing it to be able to continue to get fuel to evap and build gum? Maybe this is the problem to address…

as far as all in one. I’ve been looking at midnite solars new diy units.
Click to expand...
My generator is a 10KW Kubota diesel generator with about 5K hours, has had recent service, and runs great. However, I have noticed when I do not run it for several months, it does not startup on first run. I have to manually start it, than it typically runs fine.
 
bblackstock said:
Quick question Samsonite801 on your idea here. My existing Generator controller (Dynagen GCS300) has a 2-wire run connected to my inverter for generator auto-start based off of voltage. How do I splice/wire-in the second Raspberry Pi device? Essentially either of the devices should be able to trigger a generator start.
Click to expand...


One thing we need to know is, does it simply start when you close the 2 wires (short them), and stays running, then when you open the 2 wires, it shuts off? If so, this makes it easier, you just need one relay, that can close and open, no other fancy stuff.

You would need a Raspberry Pi hardware, and a relay module for it (just parallel-in the RPi relay with the existing auto-start dry contacts terminals).

Well, there are several ways to do this in the software side. Different OS's you could run to get the same job done.

The way I did mine was using Raspbian OS which is more generic OS for RPi projects, and I had to fuss around with figuring out how to switch relays and read voltages, and then build my own Python scripts to control it. There are lots of You Tube videos on how to switch a relay using RPi, and Python, and even sample scripts you can start from.

Then once you get an 'on' script and an 'off' script, or an 'on' command and an 'off' command, you can use crontab to create a scheduled task that can run your scripts (with some sleep time in between)... Or something to that effect. Can also just have it all in one script with the timer built-in, and just run the whole script (on, wait timer, off) on the scheduled task.

I did happen to just find out (from Googling) that Victron has an OS for use on an RPi that can work with their shunts and other VE.Direct connected devices they make, but it could potentially be simply used to exercise generator (since they offer the function in their OS application).


Check out these videos:

You wouldn't need all the fancy Arduino stuff he had to use (for momentary press, on 2 different relays), as long as your relay would just be 'on' for run, and 'off' for stop.


I don't know if you have to buy a Victron shunt or some other Victron product in order to use their Venus OS, or if it is free to use just the generator exercise function by itself, but if you could, it might make it easier for a beginner to get something going faster...
 
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Only one generator? Then you only need on relay to start it. Multiple logic statements controlling the relay.

Sunny Island has several generator functions. Start when battery below a certain point, of course. Allow warm-up and cool-down time before connecting and after disconnecting. Start periodically to exercise it. To avoid noise at night, can let battery SoC get a bit lower, hopefully make it to morning before having to start.

It checks all your boxes except [ ] Price, and [ ] All in One

Depending on bargains you can find, cost of entry probably at least $4k once some sort of PV capability (AC or DC coupled) is added.
 
Samsonite801 said:
One thing we need to know is, does it simply start when you close the 2 wires (short them), and stays running, then when you open the 2 wires, it shuts off? If so, this makes it easier, you just need one relay, that can close and open, no other fancy stuff.

You would need a Raspberry Pi hardware, and a relay module for it (just parallel-in the RPi relay with the existing auto-start dry contacts terminals).

Well, there are several ways to do this in the software side. Different OS's you could run to get the same job done.

The way I did mine was using Raspbian OS which is more generic OS for RPi projects, and I had to fuss around with figuring out how to switch relays and read voltages, and then build my own Python scripts to control it. There are lots of You Tube videos on how to switch a relay using RPi, and Python, and even sample scripts you can start from.

Then once you get an 'on' script and an 'off' script, or an 'on' command and an 'off' command, you can use crontab to create a scheduled task that can run your scripts (with some sleep time in between)... Or something to that effect. Can also just have it all in one script with the timer built-in, and just run the whole script (on, wait timer, off) on the scheduled task.

I did happen to just find out (from Googling) that Victron has an OS for use on an RPi that can work with their shunts and other VE.Direct connected devices they make, but it could potentially be simply used to exercise generator (since they offer the function in their OS application).


Check out these videos:

You wouldn't need all the fancy Arduino stuff he had to use (for momentary press, on 2 different relays), as long as your relay would just be on for run, and off for stop.


I don't know if you have to buy a shunt or something in order to use their Venus OS, or if it is free to use just the generator exercise function by itself, but it might make it easier for a beginner to get something going faster...
Click to expand...

"does it simply start when you close the 2 wires (short them), and stays running, then when you open the 2 wires, it shuts off? If so, this makes it easier, you just need one relay, that can close and open, no other fancy stuff."

Yes, that is exactly how it works.

When you say "just parallel-in the RPi relay with the existing auto-start dry contacts terminals", you kinda of lost me there. Are you essentially saying I would have 2 wires feeding each contact terminal (one coming from inverter, one coming from RPi relay)?
 
Hedges said:
Only one generator? Then you only need on relay to start it. Multiple logic statements controlling the relay.

Sunny Island has several generator functions. Start when battery below a certain point, of course. Allow warm-up and cool-down time before connecting and after disconnecting. Start periodically to exercise it. To avoid noise at night, can let battery SoC get a bit lower, hopefully make it to morning before having to start.

It checks all your boxes except [ ] Price, and [ ] All in One

Depending on bargains you can find, cost of entry probably at least $4k once some sort of PV capability (AC or DC coupled) is added.
Click to expand...
Yep, just one generator. I will check out the Sunny Island Inverter. I currently am running an Outback FM60 MPPT controller, so I could likely just keep using that if the price is right on the Sunny Island.
 
bblackstock said:
"does it simply start when you close the 2 wires (short them), and stays running, then when you open the 2 wires, it shuts off? If so, this makes it easier, you just need one relay, that can close and open, no other fancy stuff."

Yes, that is exactly how it works.

When you say "just parallel-in the RPi relay with the existing auto-start dry contacts terminals", you kinda of lost me there. Are you essentially saying I would have 2 wires feeding each contact terminal (one coming from inverter, one coming from RPi relay)?
Click to expand...

Well, you had mentioned you had those 2 wires from the generator connected to the 2 'dry contact' terminals on your inverter, well, just also connect those same 2 over to the RPi relay so both the inverter or the RPi can operate (close the 2 wires) to the generator wires...
 
bblackstock said:
Yep, just one generator. I will check out the Sunny Island Inverter. I currently am running an Outback FM60 MPPT controller, so I could likely just keep using that if the price is right on the Sunny Island.
Click to expand...

Most recently saw some new on eBay for $3000.

With that (or most) SCC, you'll want a battery shunt so Sunny Island knows SoC of the battery, since it will also be charging from generator input.
A single SI has 2 relays; one controls generator, and other can do something like shed discretionary (or all) loads to help avoid running battery down so low it shuts off.
 
bblackstock said:
"does it simply start when you close the 2 wires (short them), and stays running, then when you open the 2 wires, it shuts off? If so, this makes it easier, you just need one relay, that can close and open, no other fancy stuff."

Yes, that is exactly how it works.

When you say "just parallel-in the RPi relay with the existing auto-start dry contacts terminals", you kinda of lost me there. Are you essentially saying I would have 2 wires feeding each contact terminal (one coming from inverter, one coming from RPi relay)?
Click to expand...

Just got to thinking, why the need to over complicate things, why not just use a programmable timer to close a circuit and open it, like this:


Simpler than using an RPi to just close a relay. Check out the Amazon reviews and look at the customer pictures on there.

1643693154530.png

1643693177788.png
 
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