diy solar

diy solar

Looking for an inverter with grid backup

mrrjm

New Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
9
I'm designing a small solar system. I want to use the panels to run the loads and charge lithium batteries. At night if the batteries run dead I want the inverter to switch over to the grid. Basically using the grind as a back up. And only have the PV panels charge the batteries. An all in one system with an mppt controller would be great. Is there something like this out there?


Thanks
Ray
 
It’s called an inverter/charger.
Sigineer makes them and many brands use the design, aims, etc...

I have the 1500 version. Works great.
 
The easy solar is 230v 50Hz output. Also I don't want a charger. It looks like the Samlex PSR-1200-24 might be what I need. No charger.
 
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Looks like some of the inverter/chargers let you set battery priority.
 
Samlex EVO inverter/Chargers have DUAL AC input (1 grid, 1 genset) with programmable ATS (Auto-Transfer-Swtch) built-in and an AGS (Auto-Gen-Start) signillaer to start a genset. This is all programmable. The EVO's in North America are limited to 120VAC output. I use a Samlex EVO 4024, 4000W Pure Sine Low Frequency (capable of 12,000W surge) that run off my 24V Battery Bank. Samlex also has a Solar Input port which you can connect your Solar Charge Controller to as well, it is limited to 50A Solar Input though but for smaller systems that is perfectly fine.

Some of the AIO's (All In Ones) have simiar capabilities but you really have to look at the specifics for each model. MPP Solar & Growatt are two of the more popular ones. Growatt has more / better warranty and are a higher quality (componentry etc) with a few more "standard options". Many are UL/ETL certified as well, the price points will reflect that.

See link in my Sgnature for links to Samles Info.
 
The MPP Solar & Growatt units may be easy to use and inexpensive but how long do they last?
I am looking into a off-grid solar system (6x320W panels) and tend towards buying more high quality, individual units (e.g. the Outback charge controller FM60 and e.g. the 2200W Samlex Evo plus an ATS).
However, reading the Samlex manual I wonder how to switch to grid power in case of overload. The MPP does that according to Will.
I plan to connect the off-grid power to the kitchen. Most of the time my power need is <2kW. But there could a few minutes per week where the toaster oven, the fridge, and a microwave run simultaneously. It feels like a waste to upgrade to a 3000W inverter when grid power could take over in rare cases of overload conditions. Any advice?
 
Let me put it another way. I started off with a 3Kw Inverter, it worked but just wasn't quite enough, ended up with a 4kw Samlex EVO-4024. Just normal average use (me sitting here typing on PC, Radiant heating is running atm I'm drawing 11.5A off my battery banks. Add coffee maker @ 80A, add 1200W Inverter Microwave, another 80A... All of a sudden the water pump kicks on whoops another 60A. Now add in more "life" as in kids, spouse using things and guess what... 3Kw isn't as much as one thought.

Keep in mind if you are faced with an Inverter Upgrade later, it will often mean changing wires, fuses/breakers and such which adds up. As a result I used to suggest that if you figure you "need" 3Kw you more than likely will want 4Kw and likely that should be the initial target, the Next Step up from what anyone thinks they need. Guess what, people would dump on me for that suggestion... I have BTDT myself and so have numerous others but folks don't want to hear it.

MPP Solar / Growatt and similar IAO's. They all do exactly what they are supposed to. Like everything else, there is lower end "Value" product to Tier-1 level Quality product. Q-Cells for example also has a full on AIO system even with Battery Storage, as do many other companies... These are NOT COVERED BY WILL OR THIS FORUM mostly because they are mostly sold in Europe or Asia (Not USA or Canada, which is a terrible loss IMO). They "May look identical" but these systems are not, the format (casing, displays etc) are similar in appearance but internally not so much. These units are actually Modular internally and the various sub-sections are replaceable / serviceable. Warranties reflect the quality of the products (first hint at better quality is the documentation to start with). The Internals are what matters and the higher quality products have better guts and better programming capabilities.

The key is to get the right one for your usage today & future usage that would allow for easy upgrades later if needed. Stackable is always a good thing as things do change down the road, regardless if we can see it coming or not. The devil is in the details and that really has to be looked at when comparing makes & models, for example a GroWatt will come with more standard features but does cost a bit more...

Lessons Learned:
When I got started Victron was not available to buy in Canada at the time... I am using a Midnite Classic-200 SCC & a Samlex EVO-4024, all good Tier-1 Quality gear and does what it is supposed to as it should. Had I been building TODAY, I'd go with an all out Victron System because of the quality, integration and manageability & capabilities in that regards. I would use this if I was going with a "composite system", second choice would be GroWatt (not MPP) as Growatt is a larger more established company and they have a HIgh Spec for the componentry within the box. Don't get me wrong, the Samlex & Midnite stuff is great but managing different hardware with different protocols / software and such is a "challenge" and therefore a PITA worthy of avoiding.

BUT IT'S VOLTRONIX... They are an OEM that makes components for many VARS (Value Added Resellers) who have their own specifications & requirements. Are they the Sub-Contracting OEM making the gear for GroWatt, it is quite possible but the only way to know for sure is to dissect the equipmet down to the boards and compare them down to the chips used. Schneider, EP-Ever, Yiyen, Sigineer, CyberPower, Solis and many more have AIO's... it all depends on what your wallet will allow for.

Hope it helps, Good Luck.
 
Thanks Steve, great info and very helpful!
A couple of comments:
1.) Buying GroWatt is a bit confusing. Looks like most units are sold directly or via ebay. They cost < $1000 for a 3000W unit, strangely inexpensive if they use quality components.
2.) Given my constraints (trees, size of house, overall electricity usage) only panels up to 3kW make sense given the 'usable' area of the roof. I determined that about 2kW is optimal to supplement grid power with an off-grid system. If I use a 2000W inverter, I want to make sure that overload does not turn off the device but switches over to the grid. It seems the AIO units do that. But I'm not sure how it's done with the Samlex or Victrons. Why do I want to do this? Yes things add up, but in the rooms I want to attach to the inverter, my average is load is
~1500W and only once a while I jump over 2000W. It makes more sense to bypass the inverter for those rare times. Overall these rare occations make no difference to the overall budget as my system is undersized and I will use grid power anyway. I'll ask this question in the inverter section of this forum to see what other people think.
 
Last edited:
That price is suspicious indeed. I'm sorry but I do not know vendors to refer you to for Growatt.
Their store on Alibaba is here... Boy there is LOTS listed and so many models...
I believe that Growatt is more oriented towards selling to installers and companies as opposed to the DIY sector which increases support requirements obviously.

Here is MPP Solar USA, as an alternative Known Good AIO
Many folks are using MPP and are happy with them.

I use a Samlex EVO-4024. It has a built-in ATS (Auto-Transfer Switch) that will enable Grid AC IN when it's programmed to via the software. You can pick how the Inverter operates by choosing the priorities between BATT-GRID-GEN. They have an AGS Port that when used with a GCSM can auto-start gensets.

The EVO-2024 2000W/24V battery, 2 AC Inputs Grid/Gen. https://samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=574
The EVO-2212 2200W/12V battery, same as above: https://samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=572
 
The MPP Solar & Growatt units may be easy to use and inexpensive but how long do they last?
I am looking into a off-grid solar system (6x320W panels) and tend towards buying more high quality, individual units (e.g. the Outback charge controller FM60 and e.g. the 2200W Samlex Evo plus an ATS).
However, reading the Samlex manual I wonder how to switch to grid power in case of overload. The MPP does that according to Will.
I plan to connect the off-grid power to the kitchen. Most of the time my power need is <2kW. But there could a few minutes per week where the toaster oven, the fridge, and a microwave run simultaneously. It feels like a waste to upgrade to a 3000W inverter when grid power could take over in rare cases of overload conditions. Any advice?


Sounds like you want a solark with the price being no object.

I would also suggest more panels.

I ran 12-335 watt panels for 4 years and just got 36-390 watt panels in addition to the 335s.

I also have 4- 5.5kw hybrid inverters which gives me 22kw in inverter power with a peak of 44kw.

I have around 43kwh in lithium but want more.

Why? When your off grid and have a week of rain your making very little power and using the grid. Grid goes down here a lot so im sitting in the dark.
 
You're in a different league! I wished I could add more panels but I don't have a lot of 'usable' area.
I just want to supplement my energy usage with some solar.
That's why I indicated I would like to use ~2kW (~8kWh) solar power and want to optimize the peak-to-average ratio of the power usage, so I don't oversize the inverter.
The Growatt and MPP AIOs seem to be able to switch over to grid when the load is too high for the inverter. I presume they just bypass. This is a solution I was looking into building with a dedicated high quality inverter. But I may just go with the AIO although I'm no fan of having all functionality in one box and I am afraid it won't last long...
 
Back
Top