Low or high frequency inverter

[Daddy Tanuki]

Not sure about his magnums longer term output capabilities but here's the Schneider xw pro 6848:

View attachment 283793

this is a copy paste form the manual, sorry no graphs but you get the idea...

Continuous power output at 25°C 4400 VA (L-L)
Continuous AC output current L-N: 29.7 A/120 VAC, L-L: 18.3 A/240 VAC
1 msec surge current (AAC) L-N: 120, L-L 70
100 msec surge current (AAC) L-N: 75, L-L 40
5 sec surge power (real watts) 8500
30 sec surge power (real watts) 6000
5 min surge power (real watts) 5400
30 min surge power (real watts) 4800
Max. continuous input current 144A
Inverter efficiency (peak) 94%
Transfer time 16 mSecs
Search mode (typical) < 6 watts
No load (120 VAC output, typical) 25 watts

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

No, it's not a fixed overhead. Schneider sheet lists 5w or something not connected. Eg4 12kxp list 70w no load with 300v on the pv inputs. The only relevant metric is power in to power out. If I have 10kwh of battery, can I push 9kwh at my loads before it falls over? If pv is producing 1000w, can I push 900 of it too my loads/batteries? Thats the needed metric, other numbers are noise. I'd figure about 90% for most newer HF's. I've used two different flavors, seemed to be pretty close to that for both setups, the 5x5kw and the 2x12kw, with a nominal actual load. I can't speak to the LF/Schneider. My understanding was it was slightly less efficient due to xformer loss.

sorry magnum flat out says its idle draw, and when in search mode, IE not inverting. 5 watts vs 25 watts. huge difference in consumption.

edit: thats an additional 20 watts per hour or 500 W in one day. thats the output of one average panel for 24 hours... which means in reality it takes 3 panels to simply power what it consumes idling. so yes it is important and it makes a difference compare that to a 70 watt idle load for 24 hours... thats 1680 or the output of 6 average 300 watt panels for one 24 hour period. if you ignore this simple metric you are a fool.

that is 2 average 300 watt panels vs 6 average 300 watt panels... america needs to turn back to the basics in math and ignore the agenda they have been following for the last decade.

 

[Crowz]

and you want it dry if your consumables are going to last.

I bought one of these for wife's welding stuff and some painting I tinkered with trying to do.



That plus the dryer assembly worked pretty good. Inverters had no real issues with it. But during cold weather the grid would trip the 15amp breakers until I added a heating pad to the compressor. Never had a problem after that even at 20F.

 

[Crowz]

They had one of these when I bough it if you wanted a monster

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I bought one of these for wife's welding stuff and some painting I tinkered with trying to do.

View attachment 283988

That plus the dryer assembly worked pretty good. Inverters had no real issues with it. But during cold weather the grid would trip the 15amp breakers until I added a heating pad to the compressor. Never had a problem after that even at 20F.

they have this thing... called the rubbish bin... I think we have found a new home for this abortion.

Top 10 Industrial Air Compressor Manufacturers in World 2025

• ‌Atlas Copco.
• Ingersoll Rand.
• Sullair.
• FUSHENG.
• KAESER.
• Hitachi.
• BOGE.
• Gardner Denver.

actually I would put the hitachi as number one and the IR as number 2... but thats me. I have an IR and its bullet proof, but you need three phase or split phase depending upon model.

 

[jharrell]

sorry magnum flat out says its idle draw, and when in search mode, IE not inverting. 5 watts vs 25 watts. huge difference in consumption.

Does anyone actually use search mode? It could help if you're off grid and really trying to conserve but don't want to manually shut off inverter. Seems to be pretty annoying in real life, my Magnum in the RV would not see the microwave and other small parasitic idle loads and go into search which then just shuts the inverter off and on every few seconds to check for a load, everything blinking on and off reseting clocks, its like start stop in your car , I shut that off pretty quick.

LF inverters should have more transformer losses while the HF could have more switching losses but it does come down to good design and with the sun out the HF AIO will win in effciency. I would imagine the big hybrid AIO concern themselves less with idle losses since the intent is large batteries and grid interaction typically. Even the controller managing the whole with color screen and what not will take a a few more watts. They could probably optimize the idle draw more if they really payed attention to it. The older LF inverters that came from the mobile / off grid space seemed to have spent a lot of time trying to optimize their design to lower idle draw and left the solar to another device.

My Magnum 2800 always keeps the big iron transformer warm even when nothings going on, always has the hottest reading above the FETs, sitting at 90F right now vs 70F for FETs and 57F for battery and the whole thing is floating plugged in.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Does anyone actually use search mode? It could help if you're off grid and really trying to conserve but don't want to manually shut off inverter. Seems to be pretty annoying in real life, my Magnum in the RV would not see the microwave and other small parasitic idle loads and go into search which then just shuts the inverter off and on every few seconds to check for a load, everything blinking on and off reseting clocks, its like start stop in your car , I shut that off pretty quick.

LF inverters should have more transformer losses while the HF could have more switching losses but it does come down to good design and with the sun out the HF AIO will win in effciency. I would imagine the big hybrid AIO concern themselves less with idle losses since the intent is large batteries and grid interaction typically. Even the controller managing the whole with color screen and what not will take a a few more watts. They could probably optimize the idle draw more if they really payed attention to it. The older LF inverters that came from the mobile / off grid space seemed to have spent a lot of time trying to optimize their design to lower idle draw and left the solar to another device.

My Magnum 2800 always keeps the big iron transformer warm even when nothings going on, always has the hottest reading above the FETs, sitting at 90F right now vs 70F for FETs and 57F for battery and the whole thing is floating plugged in.

with two in parallel when loads are below the threshold for parallel ops, the slave inverter is in a modified search mode, IE it waits for the master inverter to turn it on. so yes it matters while off grid. the one inverter is doing its thing with an overhead of 25 watts + whatever it is powering. the second one is tooling along at 5 watts awaiting activation.

so I have a hotel load of 30/50 watts for 8.8kw of inverter 30 when under 3k of load and 50 when it goes over that and turns on the second inverter. that makes for some descent savings over the course of a day when I do not need the second inverter. (this could be weeks on end at a time).

 

[timselectric]

with two in parallel when loads are below the threshold for parallel ops, the slave inverter is in a modified search mode, IE it waits for the master inverter to turn it on. so yes it matters while off grid. the one inverter is doing its thing with an overhead of 25 watts + whatever it is powering. the second one is tooling along at 5 watts awaiting activation.

so I have a hotel load of 30/50 watts for 8.8kw of inverter 30 when under 3k of load and 50 when it goes over that and turns on the second inverter. that makes for some descent savings over the course of a day when I do not need the second inverter. (this could be weeks on end at a time).

That would be useful. Most are just all on or off.

 

[timselectric]

Duplicate post deleted

 

[jharrell]

with two in parallel when loads are below the threshold for parallel ops, the slave inverter is in a modified search mode, IE it waits for the master inverter to turn it on.

Not sure what "modified search mode" means, does one just have search mode on and the other off?

I know you can setup Victrons to use the relay in the master to turn on the slave when a power threshold is exceed and even have a smaller inverter runs things when power is low. This isn't what I would call search mode, it's better because one inverter is completely off until the other one tells its needed but the secondary is not searching, its being told by the master.

Would be nice if parallel inverters in closed loop would use a single master keeping things going and telling the slaves to engage as needed, not sure if any of the AIO do this, seems like an obvious feature, would still use a few watts for comms.

All of these solutions including search mode limit your start surge to a single inverters capability since it can't react fast enough to help, the inverters must be on synced which causes the idle losses.

 

[ksmithaz1]

that is 2 average 300 watt panels vs 6 average 300 watt panels... america needs to turn back to the basics in math and ignore the agenda they have been following for the last decade.

Your making the assumption you are comparing apples to apples to apples, which you are not. These are just numbers if you are not inverting. If you are not inverting what's the point? You cannot make the assumption that when you are inverting this is the total overhead, or gets absorbed as output ramps up as part of your overhead. What you need is the overhead. If I'm not inverting my overhead is 100%. It's not a math problem until you calculate what you put in vs what you are getting out. I'm pretty damn good at math, but looking at some typical number when a device is not performing it's intended function is not effing relevant, unless you routinely are 'leaving it plugged in and not using it', which is stoopid.

At the risk of being obtuse: What you need is the number of KWH of input vs the number of KWH of output when under a nominal load for your scenario. If you don't want to turn it on, then why did you install it in the first place?

The assumption is if I have 70W of "idle draw", then if I'm pushing 1000W to my loads then my consumption is 1070W. This is not accurate, more like 1100W, roughly a 10% overall loss. The maths are not complicated, and the math you outline above is just fine if your objective is to (say) use your system as a backup only where it only comes on if the grid fails or something, though again, is not going to be indicative of how long your batteries are gonna last when you are actively using the inverter.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

For OP, I'd worry about how long the thing he buys is going to last ...

LF's tend to have longer lifespans & better reliability, HF's tend to have shorter lifespans & worse reliability. The warranties tend to back this up, as you'd never find a tier-1 LF with a crummy 1-year warranty, yet HF's had these short warranties in droves. The forum threads tend to back this up, as horror stories abound for HF AIO's. HF's, for the longest time, were just built with too much complexity, too few quality components, and died off left and right. This forum has many such threads showing this ...

So, OP needs to really do the homework ... there are plenty of LF's and HF's out there, still, but unfortunately, warranties and good vendor support for AIO's are all over the map. Your homework should be to sort out who has a minimum of a 3-year warranty, coupled with excellent support, and few support "nightmares" such as:
- can't get through to support
- support wants me to mail this heavy thing back (no FRU's, etc.) and be down for weeks/months
- and so on ..

After all the research I did, I came to the conclusion that you could have one LF on the wall, but you'd need two HF's on the wall, as one would be running while the other was being repaired. It's not about who can start what, it's about who can support the thing they sell, at the least inconvenience to you the buyer ...

Good research and design will handle every problem ... most of this forum's horror stories can be traced back to not doing the research or getting the design right.

 

[455dan]

they have this thing... called the rubbish bin... I think we have found a new home for this abortion.

Top 10 Industrial Air Compressor Manufacturers in World 2025

• ‌Atlas Copco.
• Ingersoll Rand.
• Sullair.
• FUSHENG.
• KAESER.
• Hitachi.
• BOGE.
• Gardner Denver.

actually I would put the hitachi as number one and the IR as number 2... but thats me. I have an IR and its bullet proof, but you need three phase or split phase depending upon model.

I would add

Saylor-Beall​

 

[seneysolar]

Your making the assumption you are comparing apples to apples to apples, which you are not. These are just numbers if you are not inverting. If you are not inverting what's the point? You cannot make the assumption that when you are inverting this is the total overhead, or gets absorbed as output ramps up as part of your overhead. What you need is the overhead. If I'm not inverting my overhead is 100%. It's not a math problem until you calculate what you put in vs what you are getting out. I'm pretty damn good at math, but looking at some typical number when a device is not performing it's intended function is not effing relevant, unless you routinely are 'leaving it plugged in and not using it', which is stoopid.

At the risk of being obtuse: What you need is the number of KWH of input vs the number of KWH of output when under a nominal load for your scenario. If you don't want to turn it on, then why did you install it in the first place?

The assumption is if I have 70W of "idle draw", then if I'm pushing 1000W to my loads then my consumption is 1070W. This is not accurate, more like 1100W, roughly a 10% overall loss. The maths are not complicated, and the math you outline above is just fine if your objective is to (say) use your system as a backup only where it only comes on if the grid fails or something, though again, is not going to be indicative of how long your batteries are gonna last when you are actively using the inverter.

You're missing the point. Off grid with no grid available want the lowest idle consumption for the most capable inverter. Most of the use is idle, maybe a light on. They aren't going to turn the inverter on/off every time they need power, they just want power available so you can flush the toilet and turn lights on anytime. Most are ran with a smaller solar array than you might be used to. 90% are less than 2000w of pv on a 4k inverter.
I have a 4000w LF inverter but only 700w of solar, off grid, obviously i cant run continuous 4000w loads but thats not the design. The inverter spends its life in standby waiting for the well to kick on or lights / tv for an hour or 2 per day. I can go 4 days like this in overcast clouds. If you double the idle consumption i lose a day and a half. Thats why its important for off grid.
Agreed if i had 4000w of solar panels i wouldn't care.

 

[ksmithaz1]

For OP, I'd worry about how long the thing he buys is going to last ...

LF's tend to have longer lifespans & better reliability, HF's tend to have shorter lifespans & worse reliability. a

I'm in. Show me the failure comparisons for Tier 1 LF vs HF.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I'm in. Show me the failure comparisons for Tier 1 LF vs HF.

Well every single issue I have heard of with magnums are one of two… bad thermistor on the board reading over temp when actual fine, or bad ac input board. In both case the parts are cheaper then the time it takes you to unsolder and then replace. While not a happy thing at least it is owner serviceable

 

[ksmithaz1]

There are plenty of old inverters of all flavors. I dont think there is a whole lot to go wrong with any of these things. There were some poorly designed units, but I think most if the stuff out there now has gotten pretty solid. Just wander this forum for problems, and you see they've tapered off to pretty esoteric items at this point.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Well every single issue I have heard of with magnums are one of two… bad thermistor on the board reading over temp when actual fine, or bad ac input board. In both case the parts are cheaper then the time it takes you to unsolder and then replace. While not a happy thing at least it is owner serviceable

In there defense the HF have given me zero issues, but I don’t use them for heavy lifting either,…. Just the water heater in the boiler and only tested once so far to ensure the controls would work the way I envisioned… once the oil burner is complete

There are plenty of old inverters of all flavors. I dont think there is a whole lot to go wrong with any of these things. There were some poorly designed units, but I think most if the stuff out there now has gotten pretty solid. Just wander this forum for problems, and you see they've tapered off to pretty esoteric items at this point.

yeah Esoteric… like the maker shutting then down on you via remote control?

 

[ksmithaz1]

yeah Esoteric… like the maker shutting then down on you via remote control?

No poopy, THAT is about as unexpected as it gets. Then again, maybe a wake up call as well.

 

[Norwasian]

On balance an inverter 'box' is going to use some of the power you get in order to operate. If you are off-grid that power amount should not be relevant, since as a percentage of your total use it's very small. If your engineering a system with tolerances that tight you made a huge mistake. If you only need 3KW to run your load, you buy a single 3KW box, likely with ~30-40W of idle power draw, and it has a linear effect on battery consumption. If you want to last your mythical '7-days' you still need 6720WH. You act like two boxes takes 15000WH but one box takes ZERO. Doesn't work that way. To SparkyJJO's point, it's not cut and dry either. You take loss every single time you convert power from A to B.

This is well said, and I agree.

Off-grid/On-grid/Looking at the grid . . . Equipment overhead is mostly irrelevant because any differences are nominal, you need enough inverter to meet the total demand of the system, or you may as well take your ball and go home.

And I agree here, too....but there's a caveat. I've seen folk posting here who have a 12000-watt inverter that fails to start a 4000-watt motor. Why? Because of the way the inverter was engineered, and the fact that it does not handle inductive loads very well due to power factor (pF) issues, even the wattage of the inverter became irrelevant to the load's wattage requirement. This is one realm where LF is superior to HF.

Who said there was a LF inverter with no idle draw?
I also never saw anyone here claim to have a off grid system with no generator.

I have an off-grid system with no generator running perfectly fine in the neighboring province. It lasted over four days on zero PV production (because the panels had been disconnected during the process of moving the system to a separate building) with the 15 kwh battery that had been intended to cover for 2-3 days of cloudy weather.

Air compressor? 6HP is a LOT of air compressor. 6HP motor is going to be borderline on that 18K. I'd put a soft-start on it.

Was recently looking at WARN winches--some of them take 6HP to run as well. Hmm....good thing they run on standard 12V batteries with no need of a soft start device.

That's a really low LRA. I'm surprised the 18Kpv won't handle it. My 4T lists 120 ish if memory serves, but I would think an air compressor should not be as severe as an HVAC, in particular when it's 120F outside.

Methinks you are unacquainted with the modern inverter HVAC systems. We actually reduced our power bill by installing an inverter A/C unit because it consumed less power than the fans we had been running previously to try to dry the sweat off our faces.

My system has zero idle draw, because it's never idle. lol

Some manufacturers have two separate categories: one for overhead, one for standby.

Yes, 'idle' is inverter overhead present all the time.

Then what do you call the <2 watts "idle" that my on-grid inverter has? It literally shuts down when the sun "turns off," only checking to see if PV voltage returns.

There is the power it takes to have the inverter on then there is the efficiency at which the inverter can change dc to ac.
They are 2 different things.
Where HF inverters win is the ability to pull loads directly off the high voltage bus bars, so you have 400v DC to 120v ac directly. If you are charging the batteries it still is 400vdc to 48vdc to 120v ac same as a LF inverter.

Any inverter converting 400 volts to 120 volts will be much more efficient than inverters accepting nearly a tenth or less that voltage with the same output.

For OP, I'd worry about how long the thing he buys is going to last ...

LF's tend to have longer lifespans & better reliability, HF's tend to have shorter lifespans & worse reliability. The warranties tend to back this up, as you'd never find a tier-1 LF with a crummy 1-year warranty, yet HF's had these short warranties in droves. The forum threads tend to back this up, as horror stories abound for HF AIO's. HF's, for the longest time, were just built with too much complexity, too few quality components, and died off left and right. This forum has many such threads showing this ...

This.

I do not even recall seeing any threads on here where LF owners were complaining about having issues with their LF inverters. I'm sure there must be one or two of them around, but everything I've been seeing is all HF related. One might say that HF inverters are more common, but I'm not so sure. Even in this thread I see multiple posters mentioning their LF inverters. I, myself, chose an LF inverter for the system I engineered, and have an HF inverter than another company installed for my on-grid needs.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

You're missing the point. Off grid with no grid available want the lowest idle consumption for the most capable inverter. Most of the use is idle, maybe a light on. They aren't going to turn the inverter on/off every time they need power, they just want power available so you can flush the toilet and turn lights on anytime. Most are ran with a smaller solar array than you might be used to. 90% are less than 2000w of pv on a 4k inverter.
I have a 4000w LF inverter but only 700w of solar, off grid, obviously i cant run continuous 4000w loads but thats not the design. The inverter spends its life in standby waiting for the well to kick on or lights / tv for an hour or 2 per day. I can go 4 days like this in overcast clouds. If you double the idle consumption i lose a day and a half. Thats why its important for off grid.
Agreed if i had 4000w of solar panels i wouldn't care.

exactly. like I mentioned one inverter is on and running 24-7. it never shuts down unless I shut it down. it has a tare consumption of 25 watts. this is regardless of load. the second inverter stay in an idle state not inverting, but simply waiting for the signal to turn on. this takes 5 watts for comms, once it fires up it is the same 25 watts. now the differance is I do not need to buy an additional soft start to start my A/C, nor my small compressor (3 HP single phase 220) but the big compressor 7.5hp IR is three phase so it runs on the genset same as all three welders, lift and a few other big ticket items.

my system is not on the bleeding edge of anything. I need 10-15kWh per evening to tide me over to the next day. I need 2-3 days to tide me over in a heavy snowstorm. I have a 72kw battery bank. do I need to worry? Yes even though I have what amounts to a battery bank large enough to run my A/C and all normal house loads with no sun for 5-7 days every drop counts towards not needing to fire up the genset except when I need to weld... or use the lift, or paint a panel on a car (or the whole dang car if I decided to). simply put the HF inverters (5kw) will not start my small compressor tried it they through an overcurrent fault. the 4kW Magnum LF says hold ma beer and does not even turn on the 2nd inverter unless I set it into pansy mode. there is a difference and the HF crowd bought into it due to cost considerations. I bought into the component and LF inverter plan due to long term considerations. just how much does a 2kw soft start cost? (i honestly have no clue as i had no need to buy one). if one of my multiple SCC goes out, I do nto need to shut down my system while I ship the entire inverter back to china...

gonna get blunt here... but it boils down to i took the it must absolutely work concept and worked it. Most of the HF people took the what can i get for pennies concept I will not convince them, and they will never convince me. it is just two totally separate mind sets. it is like buying a honda ridgeline to haul wood back to my cabin with vice buying an F350 diesel.... you can only cheat physics/mechanical longevity (or electrical) so much before it bites you in the backside

 

[ksmithaz1]

That's a really low LRA. I'm surprised the 18Kpv won't handle it. My 4T lists 120 ish if memory serves, but I would think an air compressor should not be as severe as an HVAC, in particular when it's 120F outside.

Methinks you are unacquainted with the modern inverter HVAC systems. We actually reduced our power bill by installing an inverter A/C unit because it consumed less power than the fans we had been running previously to try to dry the sweat off our faces.

Not sure why you would say this, nor what an inverter HVAC has to do with starting my Goodman 4T package unit. The unit lists around 120-130 LRA on the compressor compared to the 96 LRA for which I was responding to start the air compressor. I am a little surprised a 12000XP would not start it, but if not, it is what it is. I would tend to lean to the batteries as a problem, not the inverter, I could be full of it. I think an LF may put less stress on your batteries, but I have no facts to back that up. Anecdotally I saw a lot less stress starting my HVAC when I added the additional 30KWH of batteries, particularly as they fell below 20%.

If you are trying to squeak by with the most minimal quantity of gear to run large inductive loads, more power to you. I think if you have a cabin in the woods that only has a 6HP well pump, a refrigerator and a light bulb, then, I would agree a 7KW LF might be where you want to be. Then again talk is cheap, and systems vary. If you need to pull 120A@240V that is 28800 watts, albeit very briefly. That means your batteries need to be able to put out 50V @ 576A, albeit very briefly. That is pretty much the limit of one of my 30KWH stacks, they are rated at MAX 100A each, so 600A total, for which I engineered my system. If you have a 15KWH battery, it's going to max out around 300A, which means your inverter is likely to fall over when the unit tries to start something that fat.

This gets back to engineering the system to meet the demand you need to service. So if you tell me your "12000XP "will not start your 6HP compressor without having a complete system spec, I can only shrug my shoulders, and nod my head, and you can say it's because its not an LF and an LF would work, and it may be true that an LF will not make the batteries fall over taking out the inverter at the same time, but I'm not going to buy it unless I see a demo, apples to apples, everything else being equal.

 

[seneysolar]

If you are trying to squeak by with the most minimal quantity of gear to run large inductive loads, more power to you. I think if you have a cabin in the woods that only has a 6HP well pump, a refrigerator and a light bulb, then, I would agree a 7KW LF might be where you want to be.

I am!
My well is only 3/4 hp@120V. I have a 4k LF because I want to have the option of using my skill saw, miter saw and table saw without the generator. I dont really own anything that can bring it to its knees. It will surge 12k for 20 seconds.

I think if i was designing a system that had to run a 6hp air compressor, it would end up on its own inverter that could be off until needed. Or invest in a different air compressor.

I took the easy way out. When i needed air at camp i chose the gas powered unit, i love it. Was cheaper than oversizing my electrical and its portable. Obviously its not going to do high volume but i just needed to be able to service tires and run a framing gun. Choosing the right compressor is as important as choosing the right inverter. The wrong choice and you spend alot of money and are still disappointed.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Here is the whole thing… if it works for you Kudos! Just realize that it does not for all. All of our systems are different. I admit to being g an asshole in regards to this. It’s a built bias towards absolute lethality with me…. It has to work regardless. No excuses I am sure this pigheadedness piss some of you off. But my system has to work regardless no excuses so I tend to be an ass about this and when my lose sight of the forest for trees, I tend to be defensive. We all need to grow up, I am working o it you all should as well

 

[ksmithaz1]

There is sumthin to be said about any product that just works as intended. And you must engineer your system to meet your needs.

The thread is about engineering a system using LF vs HF.

For handling a heavy inductive start/load, we see Will's (and other) video's of HF EG4 inverters starting massive inductive loads, and owning the same equipment I have the same experience. Then someone simply states that some HF product won't start load "X", without specing the system and everyone says: "See HF won't start a large inductive load". I gotta balk on that, I'm simply not buying, because what matters is the whole system, not a specific component.

Then people claim some dubious overhead about HF inverters, based on published "idle" numbers. The problem is idle draw is not the same as active draw, and idle draw tests for the AIO's are generally measured with "solar" input on all the MPPT's and a connected battery bank in standby. The assumption then becomes that whatever that draw is it's pure overhead. It's not. I have two units that would theoretically draw 140W. That means if my load is ~500W overnight I should be chewing up 640W, except I'm not, it's more like 550W. This indicates to me much of the standby load is around activating a bunch of components in anticipation of a load, which is then absorbed into the load once it exists. Thus I would say that what matters when engineering your system is what your efficiency is at your lowest draw, not how much it uses when you are drawing nothing.

However, if you've engineered a system like Tanuki, where you are actually dropping equipment into standby bringing components online and offline to meed your needs/demand YMMV. I think most people just want to stick up a few panels, an inverter and some batteries and pretty much have it run the whole time. In that case it just needs to meet your demand.

It would be interesting to get a side-by-side of similar sized LF and HF inverters with the same batteries starting an increasingly larger and larger series of inductive motors until they fall over. @Will Prowse ?