ChangeMachine
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LTO "Grade A" Aliexpress Cells
- Thread starter Will Prowse
- Start date
Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
I orderd from Aliexpress store "oye Store" and at first I got grade B cells (2016), rated for 12Nm...and torquing them down with 12Nm, one stud came off the cell...then I got a replacement cell. The new cell (2019) is rated for 7Nm...seems like they figured, that 12Nm is too much. Also, everything is written in red color on the new cells positive pole. The new cell actually pulled 45Ah...very impressive. But it also has been used before (scratches on the terminals).
Do never buy LTO cells from Shenzhen Yidong Technology Co., Ltd. from Alibaba. They ship grade B cells and do not refund you and claim, that everything is alright. I bought 132 cells for USD 5570.60 and 7 cells had a high internal resistance / impedance of 1mΩ to 10mΩ. Half of the cells arrived with less then 0.5V. People of trade assurance do not understand the graphs and the tests...they require a 3d party inspection by TÜV Reinland in Shenzhen....and guess who pays for that.
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I have the same issue with my LTO cells i have 110 40ah grade b LTO cell in two strings of 55.
from 2.18v/cell to 2.50volt per cell I have 23.5 Ah from 40 rated, but it not lost capacity after 2Mwh of energy passed troug them (110 cells) i know from some time the story about used and re wrapped cells.
Perhaps new cells are too expansive.
Some how it make me turn my attention on a larger capacity LFP bank.
from 2.18v/cell to 2.50volt per cell I have 23.5 Ah from 40 rated, but it not lost capacity after 2Mwh of energy passed troug them (110 cells) i know from some time the story about used and re wrapped cells.
Perhaps new cells are too expansive.
Some how it make me turn my attention on a larger capacity LFP bank.
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Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
Quality controll
When purchasing those cells, it is good to have a meter to measure the impedance / internal resistance of those cells.
If the impedance is below 0.5mΩ or at least below 1mΩ, you should be good to go. You could get such a meter to measure the internal resistance:
de.aliexpress.com
Report: 40Ah grade B cells 66160H
I wrote a report about those LTO cells with high internal resistance (see attachment). And I also compare them with a grade A 40Ah LTO cell. Furthermore, you can find the Yinlong datasheets with all technical information of the 40Ah LTO cells.
Balancer
You could use such a programmable Active balancer, that you can set to balance above a voltage of 2.45V/cell:
de.aliexpress.com
They have a bug in the software...so it balances all the damn time...so you have to switch the B+ wire on at a voltage over 2.4/cell...that is annoying, but shunts like the Victron BMV-700 can do that. With the BMV-700, you can also switch active balancing on at a high SOC.
Battery pack
I also use 110 grade B 40Ah LTO cells in a 22S 5P configuration with 50.6V nominal pack voltage.
BMS
As Battery Management System I use the 250A version of the 22S LTO BMS:
de.aliexpress.com
Usable Voltage range
You can use those cells from 2.9V to 1.5V to get the maximum out of them. But you should not absorb at 2.9V...so for most applications, it is best to use 2.5V to 2.6V as a end of charge voltage.
And for end of discharge voltage, 1.6V to 1.8V should do the job and you can still get about 99% or 98% of the capacity at 1C discharge rate (40A).
When purchasing those cells, it is good to have a meter to measure the impedance / internal resistance of those cells.
If the impedance is below 0.5mΩ or at least below 1mΩ, you should be good to go. You could get such a meter to measure the internal resistance:
48.25US $ 10% OFF|Modell RC3563 Batterie Interne Widerstand Tester True Vier draht AC Interne Widerstand Sorter Blei säure Lithium UPS Test|Batterie-Tester| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
de.aliexpress.com
Report: 40Ah grade B cells 66160H
I wrote a report about those LTO cells with high internal resistance (see attachment). And I also compare them with a grade A 40Ah LTO cell. Furthermore, you can find the Yinlong datasheets with all technical information of the 40Ah LTO cells.
Balancer
You could use such a programmable Active balancer, that you can set to balance above a voltage of 2.45V/cell:
11.54US $ 25% OFF|1A 2A 5A 10A Balance Lithium Batterie Aktive Equalizer Bluetooth 2S ~ 24S BMS Li Ion Lifepo4 LTO JK balancer Schutz Bord 4S|Batteriezubehörteile| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
de.aliexpress.com
Battery pack
I also use 110 grade B 40Ah LTO cells in a 22S 5P configuration with 50.6V nominal pack voltage.
BMS
As Battery Management System I use the 250A version of the 22S LTO BMS:
50.0US $ |Smart BMS LTO Bluetooth 2,3 V 200A250A RS485 UART 5S 6S 10S 11S 12S 15S 16S 20S 24S 25S 27S 30S 32S für Lithium Titante batterien|Batteriezubehörteile| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
de.aliexpress.com
Usable Voltage range
You can use those cells from 2.9V to 1.5V to get the maximum out of them. But you should not absorb at 2.9V...so for most applications, it is best to use 2.5V to 2.6V as a end of charge voltage.
And for end of discharge voltage, 1.6V to 1.8V should do the job and you can still get about 99% or 98% of the capacity at 1C discharge rate (40A).
Attachments
Last edited:
Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
Don't worry, Insulation is being added.
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Bob B
Emperor Of Solar
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The only person I know who had found a reliable source of good LTO cells was Craig .... and he seems to have abandoned this forum for some reason. His name is no longer available to tag.
He sells LTO cells on Ebay, but I don't know what his name is on there.
He sells LTO cells on Ebay, but I don't know what his name is on there.
A word of warning about your question, there are many smart and informed people on this forum, but at the same time there is a ton of misinfo on this forum about grade A cells, many people accept what sellers or other forum members say uncritically, and many people are predisposed to wanting to believe that the cells they bought are grade A. Beyond that, its a hard thing for consumers to know with any certainty when buying off the grey market. So if you do get recommendations, still do your own due diligence, and remember that price is one of the best indicators. That said,Hello,
I searched through the forum for the AliExpress / Alibaba sellers that most probably sells true grade A and new (not re-labelled) YinLong 45Ah 66160 cells... and I found this thread.
Can we trust OSN Power and/or KOK Power (KOK's Alibaba)?
Do you know other AliExpress / Alibaba sellers that truly sells 45Ah YL cells with internal impedance <= 0.5mΩ or <= 1mΩ?
I've heard GWL, which is an EU based company I believe, sells grade A, LTO cells, but I'm not sure if they ship outside of the EU and if they do what the cost would be. I believe this company has a good reputation and has been around for a while, but I don't have personal experience or any depth of knowledge about them. Here is the link
Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
Yes, in Europe, GWL delivers good quality...I have good experiences with them. But the prices are high.Hello,
I searched through the forum for the AliExpress / Alibaba sellers that most probably sells true grade A and new (not re-labelled) YinLong 45Ah 66160 cells... and I found this thread
Can we trust OSN Power and/or KOK Power (KOK's Alibaba)?
Do you know other AliExpress / Alibaba sellers that truly sells 45Ah YL cells with internal impedance <= 0.5mΩ or <= 1mΩ?
I am in contact with Mrs. Luz Zhang from Yinlong Energy Co., Ltd.:
Alibaba Manufacturer Directory - Suppliers, Manufacturers, Exporters & Importers
zhyle.en.alibaba.com
Right now they offer 40Ah and 45.5Ah LTO cells with the 66160 form factor.
She also told me, that they intend to produce 50Ah cells in future.
For solar system pouch LTO is enough or even prismatic, LTO is far more better than other lithium but is expansive.
I am interested what capacity is between 2.18 to 2.50 for a 40 ah 66160 LTO Yinlong cell, I found 23ah for my grade b cells.
I am interested what capacity is between 2.18 to 2.50 for a 40 ah 66160 LTO Yinlong cell, I found 23ah for my grade b cells.
Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
With a 5A discharge per cell, you should get about 65% of the capacity.
[5A discharge is 0.125C or C/8]
With a 40A discharge per cell, you should get about 50% of the capacity.
[40A discharge is 1C or C/1]
But be aware, that the result is highly dependent on your internal resistance. If the internal resistance is high, you get less out of the cells.
Why do you only want to go down to 2.18V/cell?
So yes...I can absolutely reproduce your 23Ah result from 2.5V to 2.18V discharge.
I have an order with Yinlong on Alibaba. I'll let you guys know how it goes. It's not cheap compared to lfp, but the temp and c ratings are crazy.
BTW I got like 4 different versions of the spec sheet with different pulse/10 second ratings for the 66160h 40ah cells. Anywhere from 400 to 800.
Also, battery hookup has some lto cells right now.
BTW I got like 4 different versions of the spec sheet with different pulse/10 second ratings for the 66160h 40ah cells. Anywhere from 400 to 800.
Also, battery hookup has some lto cells right now.
BuffaloTrace
Solar Enthusiast
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- Dec 3, 2020
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Has Yinlong 35ah cylindrical
And Toshiba 20ah prismatic
Not sure how many in stock, but selling packs of 6 cells
I have no experience with these guys.
BuffaloTrace
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2020
- Messages
- 510
Batteryhookup seems to be a reliable source of cells stateside with fair pricing inc shipping.
Got some suggestions on better priced LTO cells from a reliable source? Low cost shipping? Fast shipping?
As Will has stated before in his videos, the LTOs voltage spread is concerning, but for special application use I can see these cells being beneficial.
While I dont live in an extreme climate, my future plans for a large Lifepo4 pack will be backed by small solar heat pads for the lifepo4, powered by a small LTO 6s battery for a more modular system. This idea is not new and I've read about people attempting this before.
Got some suggestions on better priced LTO cells from a reliable source? Low cost shipping? Fast shipping?
As Will has stated before in his videos, the LTOs voltage spread is concerning, but for special application use I can see these cells being beneficial.
While I dont live in an extreme climate, my future plans for a large Lifepo4 pack will be backed by small solar heat pads for the lifepo4, powered by a small LTO 6s battery for a more modular system. This idea is not new and I've read about people attempting this before.
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Brandon8792
New Member
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- Nov 20, 2019
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For companies that do not want to do a customer right, such as when I got screwed, I don’t see why you couldn’t say you didn’t receive cells etc.
Or purchase, have them shipped and then say you didn’t receive them. In my eyes if it’s ok for them to commit fraud etc, you should be able to do it. Their thieves. I am still owed a refund on some cells from a supplier in China. And I intend to order from them and say it wasn’t shipped after they arrived, because having to pay for the 3rd party bs doesn’t work.
Not only that technically you’re not lying, you didn’t receive what you was told, so ?
It’s just like how they pull technicalities. Fight fire with fire, being the victim is bullshit.
And for your Time being wasted (which mine is very valuable), I see the little bit extra you gain as payment for your trouble.
Or purchase, have them shipped and then say you didn’t receive them. In my eyes if it’s ok for them to commit fraud etc, you should be able to do it. Their thieves. I am still owed a refund on some cells from a supplier in China. And I intend to order from them and say it wasn’t shipped after they arrived, because having to pay for the 3rd party bs doesn’t work.
Not only that technically you’re not lying, you didn’t receive what you was told, so ?
It’s just like how they pull technicalities. Fight fire with fire, being the victim is bullshit. And for your Time being wasted (which mine is very valuable), I see the little bit extra you gain as payment for your trouble.
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Raphael Hofmann
OFF-GRID-SYSTEM
Well...they have tracking and when UPS confirms the drop of the cells...there is not much you can do I guess.For companies that do not want to do a customer right, such as when I got screwed, I don’t see why you couldn’t say you didn’t receive cells etc.
Or purchase, have them shipped and then say you didn’t receive them. In my eyes if it’s ok for them to commit fraud etc, you should be able to do it. Their thieves. I am still owed a refund on some cells from a supplier in China. And I intend to order from them and say it wasn’t shipped after they arrived, because having to pay for the 3rd party bs doesn’t work.
Not only that technically you’re not lying, you didn’t receive what you was told, so ?
And for your Time being wasted (which mine is very valuable), I see the little bit extra you gain as payment for your trouble.
Also UPS has cameras on their vans, that record everything. You would get problems with UPS in Germany.
And on the other hand side...well, I try to be honest and accurate. Yes, I got screwed and that sucks and I am mad.
But hopefully other people can learn from my mistakes and don't buy from this dealer.
If I had more details written into the contract, the outcome was probably better.
From now on, I will always insist on making a contract, that states the quality and also in advance a 100% refund, if a cell does not keep up to the promises of the datasheet. Also, I will make sure, that they accept my testing methods and testing device as evidence.
Therefore, trade assurance will have more leverage on deciding in my favor.
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