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Luxpower 18kpv - service disconnect

petee_c

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
76
Location
just outside Waterloo, ON Canada
Feeling a little overwhelmed, but will get through it.

Had our electrician drop by today to look at our panel. We had a panel upgrade booked for Wednesday, but have since put it on hold....

I bought a Luxpower made "Maple Leafs" system (rebranded 18Kpv) and 2 x 14kWh wall mount batteries to be the heart of my residential solar / peak shaving system.

I did a bunch of research, but did not realize that I will need a service rated disconnect between the meter and the hybrid inverter. That's an extra $1000 that I didnt see coming.

Also, looks like I will need a manual transfer switch as well - just in case the inverter breaks down, so I can get power directly from the grid.

Is there one item that does both?

---
feeling a bit sad, cause the vendor did not mention these 2 items in any of the quotes they gave me....

I have a 200 amp service to the house.

I screenshotted. the relevant page from the manual, highlighted the items in question in green....Screenshot 2024-11-26 002042.jpg
 
I have a 200 amp service to the house.
How much of that do you actually need or use? I ‘downgraded’ my 200A service to 100A as I never use more than 80-ish, saved a ton of money, and was able to use 100A breakers with an InterlockKit.com slider to make my own transfer switch. <Being on a 25KVA grid transformer with 200A service was arguably a bit silly>
 
1) How tied are you to whole house backup? You can switch to 100A CLP and avoid this. At the risk of being annoying, with a single inverter only whole house backup config, with the added cost of $1k, feels a little dumb.
2) Which refactoring options did you crowdsource here? Was this the best option offered by the forum?
3) How willing and capable are you to do manual bypass? IE reconnect the electrical connections on failure
4) Do you have the time and wherewithal to shop for used disconnects on eBay?
5) if $1000 is unavoidable, is Flexboss compatible with this inverter, and is it service rated in Canada
6) Any 200A main or combo main in the US with a feed through lug kit can service as a 200A disconnect (albeit without service bypass). They don’t cost $1000 USD here. HOWEVER. If poco requires a lockable disconnect switch you cannot do this
 
How much of that do you actually need or use? I ‘downgraded’ my 200A service to 100A as I never use more than 80-ish, saved a ton of money, and was able to use 100A breakers with an InterlockKit.com slider to make my own transfer switch. <Being on a 25KVA grid transformer with 200A service was arguably a bit silly>

100amps would be cutting it close....

- we have 2 EV's sharing a 40 amp circuit (wired for 50amp) - but I got a used 40amp breaker for free.... We charge about 16-20 hrs/ week between the 2 cars.
- electric range/stove
- 2.5ton AC
- electric conventional (resistive heating) dryer.

- interlock transfer switch (the plate cover things) not legal in Canada...
 
100amps would be cutting it close....

- we have 2 EV's sharing a 40 amp circuit (wired for 50amp) - but I got a used 40amp breaker for free.... We charge about 16-20 hrs/ week between the 2 cars.
- electric range/stove
- 2.5ton AC
- electric conventional (resistive heating) dryer.

- interlock transfer switch (the plate cover things) not legal in Canada...
But those don’t all need to be southbound of your inverter, which is what is driving the 200A situation. Again, at the risk of sounding asshole, you don’t have much EV charging runtime with 2x wall batteries.

EDIT: and you can still self consume with the EV charger northbound of your inverter but southbound of the CTs

Even in the worst case where you have a visibly lockable disconnect requirement, going down to 125 or 100A likely simplifies shopping / costs due to the reduced performance target

Scope management is the best way to save cost 😆
 
Have you looked at an auto transfer switch? That would eliminate the need for the manual switch, breakers and the generator disconnect. Price would be approximately $ the same.
 
1) How tied are you to whole house backup? You can switch to 100A CLP and avoid this. At the risk of being annoying, with a single inverter only whole house backup config, with the added cost of $1k, feels a little dumb.
2) Which refactoring options did you crowdsource here? Was this the best option offered by the forum?
3) How willing and capable are you to do manual bypass? IE reconnect the electrical connections on failure
4) Do you have the time and wherewithal to shop for used disconnects on eBay?
5) if $1000 is unavoidable, is Flexboss compatible with this inverter, and is it service rated in Canada
6) Any 200A main or combo main in the US with a feed through lug kit can service as a 200A disconnect (albeit without service bypass). They don’t cost $1000 USD here. HOWEVER. If poco requires a lockable disconnect switch you cannot do this

The initial project was to do peak shaving ( we can get 2.8¢/kWh electricity from 11pm to 7am) here in Ontario, however they jack up the price to 28¢/kWh when people are home from 4pm to 9pm. Just bummed that the extra $1-2K will put a damper on my payback which was already at 12-13 yrs.

I do not understand all the lingo in your questions but:

3) I have been in the electrical panel many times before. I could hook up L1/L2 grid to L1/L2 Load if the need arised. I guess if it fails and I'm not home; wife will have to wait til I get home to get the house back on line..... $90cdn for 4.

1732603789486.png


Home Depot (USA) has this for $640USD
1732603885086.png

still perusing the web for prices on a 200amp service disconnect.....

-----

My electrician (wife's cousin) is trying to reach the vendor to see what they have to say about the service disconnect.... (I believe this is what you are asking in question 6).
 
But those don’t all need to be southbound of your inverter, which is what is driving the 200A situation. Again, at the risk of sounding asshole, you don’t have much EV charging runtime with 2x wall batteries.

EDIT: and you can still self consume with the EV charger northbound of your inverter but southbound of the CTs

Even in the worst case where you have a visibly lockable disconnect requirement, going down to 125 or 100A likely simplifies shopping / costs due to the reduced performance target

Scope management is the best way to save cost 😆

Yeah, the system will be set to what Luxpower calls "AC Charge Mode" from 11pm to 7am, so I assume the cars will charge directly from the grid. (we have been getting in the habit of charging in the ultra cheap time anyways to prepare for the battery system.) The cars are usually programmed to charge between 11pm-7am - don't worry, u didnt sound like an a$$hole.

..."southbound of the CT's " - not familiar with CT acronym.

.... will investigate going down to 125 or 100 amp service....
 
..."southbound of the CT's " - not familiar with CT acronym.
CT = Current Transformer. It's in your diagram in post 1, circled in yellow even :laugh: It's the sensor that the inverter uses to detect current flow, and then multiply/integrate with voltage to detect the net power. It's the core sensing element in implementing self-consumption.

Northbound / Southbound = not electrician/solar talk, I decided to get spicy and import language from networking/computer science.

Yeah, the system will be set to what Luxpower calls "AC Charge Mode" from 11pm to 7am, so I assume the cars will charge directly from the grid. (we have been getting in the habit of charging in the ultra cheap time anyways to prepare for the battery system.) The cars are usually programmed to charge between 11pm-7am
Right, so I think you're half-way to accepting that the EVs do not have to be able to charge when you are on emergency power. If you both EVs off the output of the inverter, you immediately relieve 100A of load calc on the feeder going into the inverter. If you move one, you relieve 50A, which might be enough.

If you want the ability to emergency charge when on Emergency Power, maybe DIY a receptacle or something on your Critical Loads Panel, that you move your EV chargers to. Maybe use a portable EVSE for this, if you already have one for use while traveling or something. The portable EVSE is nice because they're plug in and lower power than fixed EVSE, and easier to move around.

You can also hook up a minor circuit like this when no one from the city or POCO is looking. LOL.

3) I have been in the electrical panel many times before. I could hook up L1/L2 grid to L1/L2 Load if the need arised. I guess if it fails and I'm not home; wife will have to wait til I get home to get the house back on line..... $90cdn for 4.
Yup, those are the right style, but that's a scary chinese brand for carrying 200A, and selling on Amazon. Dunno if Amazon.ca is better policed than US wrt garbage.

You might want a 3 port instead of a 2 port.

There are probably some threads here that cover cheap three way bypass switch options, it's a popular topic. Dunno if it's easier or harder to split it from fusible service disconnect (it's prettier to have it in one box. I don't know how easy it is to change fuses yourself, etc).

Home Depot (USA) has this for $640USD

I think service disconnects tend to be fused.

You also want to figure out what the disconnect rule is from the POCO, AHJ, fire department, etc. Some places force you to install kind of a silly amount of extra stuff like $1000 disconnects.

CSED is just a regular combo main. Don't know if they use those where you are. combination service entrance device. I bring them up because you are upgrading service already, and another way to save (and an easier way than eBay) is to go with the least specialized/widely used equipment. Every mass-produced house in California gets one so they are easy for me to find.


Then you can find one of these rated for 200A (make sure the CSED or main panel you find has it in accessory kit)


It's basically a lug in a plug-on breaker form factor. Sometimes it takes 4 spaces to pass 200A.
 
You don’t “need” any of the inverter bypass parts. The inverter bypasses itself to grid if it has internal issues. I agree with the idea of choking your service down to 125 amps.

Max out your solar panels - find a way to feed the inverter all the solar power it will take.
 
solar panels for me won't pay off. Probably only going to do a 5-7kW array. Too many tall trees which shade our southern roof. which is triangular.

plus I can charge the batteries at night for ~3¢/kWh


House faces east.
1732647147643.png

1732647226587.png
 

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