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main 100a breaker fail

Yeah no that's fine you'll get away with it, until you don't.
???????

It’s fine, completely legal, because I gave AHJ and PG&E ample opportunities to review it in my SLD, and it is below 80% of 100A and complies with sum of breakers section in 705.12

I only mentioned 6kW limit in practice, because the code compliant system has not been exercised to the 20kW so I don’t really live fire test it
 
Pretty sure it was addressed above that SDGE hates that for emergency replacement

I vaguely recall seeing stuff 1-2 years back for similar fro PG&E — panels that can accept breakers bigger than the service

But they don't mind my 200A panel with 200A main breaker fed by their 2 awg aluminum service drop.
Probably because the neighborhood looks like it is fed from 25kVA Pole Pig, so its fuses protect their wire. (Unless I draw 200A @ 120V?)
They did confirm I have no extra loads, asked that I notify them if adding more.

I wonder about line-side taps used to feed hybrid. You could end up with 200A main + 200A bypass drawing 400A power from 200A utility drop.
 
But they don't mind my 200A panel with 200A main breaker fed by their 2 awg aluminum service drop.
Probably because the neighborhood looks like it is fed from 25kVA Pole Pig, so its fuses protect their wire. (Unless I draw 200A @ 120V?)
They did confirm I have no extra loads, asked that I notify them if adding more.

I wonder about line-side taps used to feed hybrid. You could end up with 200A main + 200A bypass drawing 400A power from 200A utility drop.
Hmm interesting. I vaguely remember I was looking for the specific case of non-compliant grandfathered gas/electric service distance. It's not considered like for like for grandfathering purposes to go from 100A main & bus to 100A main with 200A bus
 
Why is a panel/service upgrade needed? The home was doing fine with 125A panel/service.

I’m backfeeding 20kW to PG&E through my 100A panel/service (it never goes above 6kW in practice)
When you add in the 2 EVSE 60A breakers this wouldn't pass in a new 125a panel even though they are software configured to not exceed combined 48a. Did I mention te 50a spa? Definitely should have gotten a new panel back then.
 
When you add in the 2 EVSE 60A breakers this wouldn't pass in a new 125a panel even though they are software configured to not exceed combined 48a. Did I mention te 50a spa? Definitely should have gotten a new panel back then.
I see, did you exceed code already but now have to pull it down?

You can get Wallbox load shared + load managed to count as 6A or less IIRC, that works by gossiping the current drawn by each and also tracking the usage on the service.

You can load shed the spa (and three other things) with an LSC-04
 
When you add in the 2 EVSE 60A breakers this wouldn't pass in a new 125a panel even though they are software configured to not exceed combined 48a.
So why are you placing them on separate breakers? If they are software configured to limit to 48A then parallel them from each other. If software limiter fails then worst that will happen is the breaker will trip from overcurrent.
Did I mention te 50a spa?
Run it from your 60A EV circuit via 3rd limiter so 2 EVs and a spa share the same breaker. Not to code but no one needs to know. You probably won't get licensed electrician to do it for you for fear of losing his license (so look for unlicensed one 🤣).
 
So why are you placing them on separate breakers? If they are software configured to limit to 48A then parallel them from each other. If software limiter fails then worst that will happen is the breaker will trip from overcurrent.

Run it from your 60A EV circuit via 3rd limiter so 2 EVs and a spa share the same breaker. Not to code but no one needs to know. You probably won't get licensed electrician to do it for you for fear of losing his license (so look for unlicensed one 🤣).
The Spa is configured to turn off at 10pm and the evse's only run 10:30-5am so similar work around to what you described. Good point on the evse breakers, coulda saved myself $50. But yea the right solution here is a larger panel.
 
I see, did you exceed code already but now have to pull it down?

You can get Wallbox load shared + load managed to count as 6A or less IIRC, that works by gossiping the current drawn by each and also tracking the usage on the service.

You can load shed the spa (and three other things) with an LSC-04
Yes with the evse's it exceeds code. No one to blame but myself. Shoulda upgraded panel when adding evse.
 
So why are you placing them on separate breakers? If they are software configured to limit to 48A then parallel them from each other. If software limiter fails then worst that will happen is the breaker will trip from overcurrent.

Run it from your 60A EV circuit via 3rd limiter so 2 EVs and a spa share the same breaker. Not to code but no one needs to know. You probably won't get licensed electrician to do it for you for fear of losing his license (so look for unlicensed one 🤣).

60A breaker feeding large sub-panel for feeder taps to several panels/fuses/OCP protected circuit.
 
Wow.
Anytime i arrive to a site with a damaged panel, i IMMEDIATELY replace the panel with one suited for the loads present, get it operational, and then have the AHJ permits pulled and schedule the inspections.
It would suck to need poco permission to buy anything before work is done. No WAY i would attempt repair of an existing panel...
Crazy.
 
But it's moot since utility won't let you do it. So you have to get creative with what you got. It pays to have some electrical knowledge or know an EE to help you.
Agree. I have both
Wow.
Anytime i arrive to a site with a damaged panel, i IMMEDIATELY replace the panel with one suited for the loads present, get it operational, and then have the AHJ permits pulled and schedule the inspections.
It would suck to need poco permission to buy anything before work is done. No WAY i would attempt repair of an existing panel...
Crazy.
I would have loved that solution. 3 electricians all told me the same: Sorry you're out of luck until sdge approves moving forward.
 
To everyone who isn't Supervstech (or a professional electrician) this looks like a combined service entrance meter combo. Are you really going to pull hot, basically unfused utilities feed out of the box, do the swap, and only afterwards tell the power company?

There's no great options here. It would be a different story (in my eyes) if there was some way to disconnect and power down to work on this job dead.

I've even got class 0 gloves (rated to 1000 volts) and it makes me nervous to work in stuff like this live. I DIY'd my service entrance and upgrade, but I didn't do it live.
 
Mine was overhead, so didn't have to pull wires out. Lineman was in plastic bucket of a cherry picker, besides using gloves. Wires were mechanically secured to house by messenger wire. He just did cut, swing, crimp.

Depending on load side connection of meter, it could be doable to unplug meter, replace those flat busbars with wires in lugs, run to a new disconnect. e.g. a main breaker mounted on box where busbar used to be. Unauthorized modification but nothing wrong from the physics/engineering of it.

Beyond that, it could be possible to change a meter box at the end of service entrance, but I wouldn't want to.

My underground service at another location, there is a quick disconnect by transformer for each wire he can pop off with an insulated pole.
 
The Spa is configured to turn off at 10pm and the evse's only run 10:30-5am so similar work around to what you described. Good point on the evse breakers, coulda saved myself $50. But yea the right solution here is a larger panel.
I politely disagree on what the right solution. Timing the EVSE from 10:30-5AM is not sanctioned by code as a solution (though perhaps you can convince your AHJ that your interlock scheme is sufficient. POCO does not need to be involved). Load management and load shedding (aka EVEMS) are sanctioned by code, and are a pre-engineered and listed product so you don't have to convince your AHJ, to address your problem.

That is my last note on this; I will dip out of the thread since you're not into my feedback after 3 notes about it.

Here is the code citation for the above claim that this is a pre-code sanctioned, pre-engineered way of doing service & feeder engineering.

625.42 Rating
The EVSE shall have sufficient rating to supply the load served. Electric vehicle charging loads shall be considered to be continuous loads for the purposes of this article. Service and feeder shall be sized in accordance with the product ratings, unless the overall rating of the installation can be limited through controls as permitted by 625.42(A) or (B).
(A) Energy Management System (EMS)
Where an EMS in accordance with 750.30 provides load management of EVSE, the maximum equipment load on a service and feeder shall be the maximum load permitted by the EMS. The EMS shall be permitted to be integral to one piece of equipment or integral to a listed system consisting of more than one piece of equipment. When one or more pieces of equipment are provided with an integral load management control, the system shall be marked to indicate this control is provided.
 
Wow.
Anytime i arrive to a site with a damaged panel, i IMMEDIATELY replace the panel with one suited for the loads present, get it operational, and then have the AHJ permits pulled and schedule the inspections.
It would suck to need poco permission to buy anything before work is done. No WAY i would attempt repair of an existing panel...
Crazy.
This is what I don't understand -- a clear safety issue and the poco needs to get involved? Mine gives two craps what I do behind the meter if I'm not backfeeding. And if I ever want the meter base pulled to change my main feeders around (which I initially considered when I installed), they'll happily do it at no cost. Give them times, they'll show up around then within reason.

No offense to the OP, but boy am I glad I live where I do. I had my main panel (200A) replaced 4-5 years ago by a licensed electrician. The old one was stuffed with tandem breakers, you could hear arcing/buzzing, and when we took them out, we found evidence they were slowly burning/melting from the inside out.

I didn't have to file a single permit. He called the poco, they pulled the meter for the day, and he taught me a few things along the way, and we got it replaced in 4-5 hours. Called the poco back out to let them know we were done and they were out in less than an hour to put the meter back in and tag it.

New service is different: I had a new run put into my pole barn and that required a permit. Had to buy an approved meter base, but otherwise, same electrician did it for me. Installed the panel, ran the circuits/wiring I wanted in the barn, and they came out, did the inspection, tagged it and fired up the service.

Just at a loss -- if there was another problem, between the electrician trying to help you get by with the bull$hit rules and your poco dragging their feet on approval, I can't imagine the $hitshow game of 'who is liable for this problem' your insurance company would play, especially if the poco signed off on your original changes.
 
This is what I don't understand -- a clear safety issue and the poco needs to get involved?
What if the power company can't support the increase from 100 to 200 amp service at their location?
They can do 1 for 1 emergency replacement, but not an upgrade.

I guess they don't have a path for emergency upgrade
 
What if the power company can't support the increase from 100 to 200 amp service at their location?
They can do 1 for 1 emergency replacement, but not an upgrade.

I guess they don't have a path for emergency upgrade
That's fair.

My thought would be a quick approval to allow a new 200A rated panel and derate with a 100A main breaker or service disconnect to allow the customer to have a new panel and breakers installed purely on the basis of safety. I wouldn't trust a single thing left in that panel personally. Electrician / poco provide customer guidelines on avoiding the same situation for the time being, and then start the process to do a 200A upgrade. At that point, while there's the expense of a new main breaker and electrician call, I'd say it's well worth the cost from a safety perspective, both property and people.
 
That's fair.

My thought would be a quick approval to allow a new 200A rated panel and derate with a 100A main breaker
Yup, I'm baffled that they won't even fast track the upgrade needed with the same size main breaker, but they are probably concerned about someone dropping back in the 200a breaker (without poco approval) that shipped with the panel and overloading the service entrance/something else local.
 
All the homes I ever saw there in Southern California were all-in-one mains with the meter built into the main breaker panel here also in Arizona. I suppose not as easy to swap the main out without cutting the utilities security tamper tags on the meter. Seems like Midwest, Eastern, and Southern US meter and mains are split two separate boxes meter outside the main panel inside the home.

Probably won't find a licensed contractor who is willing to cut those tags and pull the meter utility will call the register of contractors that will be the end of his contractor license.

Beach cities there 100 amp panel was the standard homes had gas heating, stove, and water heating. Builders got away with low amp panels. Here both my homes had 150's. I upgraded both to 200 amps wiring was big enough didn't have to pay for larger wire to the transformer. With the heat here AC units are big 4 ton is common builders had to upgrade some. Newer homes here built after 2000 probably have 200 amp.

11 weeks seems excessive although I never needed new wire pulled from the transformer.
 
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Oh and that is just what fit in the frame for the picture. There are more boxes higher up.
 

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