Main service panel upgrade - SCE

[zanydroid]

It might be easier to fit a top/bottom style again. Matching the width and height of the existing.

Or, a side by side where the meter is on the right instead of the left. Since you have more left clearance to grow.

 

[Solarisium]

Just talked to my SoCal Edison planner:
To sum it up:

• Talk to city for new mast/ conduits/ type of panel/ separate or combination etc!
• And this: “separate meter sockets are old school!” (Are they?! I lost trust at this point )
• Edison doesn’t have a list of approved panels.
• You can cut the meter seal yourself, pull it and install it yourself to the new panel!
• You can work on the Hot wires! Or you can also call the customer service so they come and disconnect the service! (That seems to be aligned with my observation of my neighbor’s service upgrade! I only saw contractors there and didnt see Edison’s crew!)
• You can decide on a new location for meter. Just call me OR send me pictures and I will approve it if it is within the guidelines.

Basically he gave me a whole lot of responsibilities!
Will be going to the City for those questions at some point this week. This seemed to be too good to be true! (Well, may be it is. Edison approved my solar interconnection without inspection and only bases off City’s inspection)

 

[Hedges]

PG&E has "Green Book" with many details, including separation of electrical from gas equipment.
If SCE doesn't, get PG&E's and follow it.

Yanking or inserting a meter would be no big deal, if main breaker off so zero current.

Cut and swing of overhead wires, preparing bare aluminum conductor, crimping onto new wires IS a big deal; it is hot work and unfused. Have the utility do that (and they'll move the meter at same time.)

I used Square D equipment. The only CSED they had was Homeline, not QO. No meter main.
So I used "old school" separate meter box and main breaker only box. (The Siemens Meter Main I gave a link to is more compact and cleaner.) "Compact" means a bit less room for Polaris. I see it has fewer N/G lugs than the one I used, might need a 3rd connector for those.

My city gives service upgrade permit without drawings. I just wrote a bit of text. At one point the inspector noted it did mention the disconnect switch I had installed. (He asked if I had a permit for PV, and I said not yet.)

Because I was putting new box on front of house facing street, it required some sort of architectural/zoning review. But at no cost, and no hearing. I had to pay $100 ~ $200 for the no-cost review, including submitting a form regarding affected trees and Superfund sites. Also photos showing all 10 of the fewer than 5 houses on either side of my house, on my side and across the street. And photos from 4 sides of my house.

I also paid two permit fees for the upgrade, about $150 + $100.

All told, permits were as much as I spent for several new boxes (I shop hard.)

PG&E had me agree to $3500 estimate but appears to not charge anything (no upgrade, just cut and swing.)

 

[Solarisium]

No, I will not work on the hot wires. I understand the risk.
If it was a like to like panel replacement, one can carefully with proper PPE can connect the wires to the meter, but this is not worth it.

Disclaimer: To whoever is reading this and receiving service from Edison, this experience may not apply to you, and you are probably required to disconnect the service and have the utility cut and swing. You must confirm with your planner.

 

[mrdtran]

Hello! I’m in a similar situation as you. Wanted to follow up with you on your main panel upgrade. Have you made any progress since?

 

[Hedges]

I got mine done, PG&E but should be similar to OP's situation.

Cost for utility transformer installation?

slightly OT. There was a review of the Emporia Energy Monitor on Amazon, which mentioned that the house meter records more kwh usage when the pull is unbalanced between L1/L2. Is this a possibility ?

diysolarforum.com

Since this pic (where PG&E has cut wire from old 100A box and connected to new 200A main-breaker only box) I have removed old meter socket + 100A panel and installed new 200A panel.

All that remains is final signoff by inspector, but it powers the house now.

The fused safety switch would often be done as part of PV system install. Due to how it ties in to the electrical service, I did it simultaneous with 200A upgrade. At one point the inspector noted that I had mentioned the switch in the upgrade permit; otherwise he might have treated it as out of scope.

I originally intended to combine service upgrade and PV as one project, save on permit and inspection fees. But after I got through PG&E's approval to have the upgrade, they gave me 2 months to have it signed off and ready for their inspection. Ran late, but contacted them and they extended it.

The PV permit in Oakland had a check box for "electrical work", and type could be sub-panel or service upgrade or I think ESS. So commonly combined.

 

[Solarisium]

Hello! I’m in a similar situation as you. Wanted to follow up with you on your main panel upgrade. Have you made any progress since?

Are with SCE? Have you done any work yet?

Yes, after a busy few months, getting back to this.

Went to my local permit center, and pulled the permit for panel upgrade and ev charger install.
If your electric provider is SCE: I called SCE, they sent an tech to approve the new location of the meter, check the service line and approve if service line upgrade was needed. In my case no upgrade to service line is needed. Current location was approved, and I was told that I or the contractor am/is allowed to cut the lines, break the meter seal, install the new meter /panel and check with safety inspector.

Purchased a 200A panel/ meter combo yesterday, planning to order this 6-2 MC for EV circuit going through the crawl space after calling the city inspector.

 

[Hedges]

Purchased a 200A panel/ meter combo yesterday,

If you use that CSED with center-fed main breaker, determine what backfed PV breaker you want and if it complies by 120% rule, 100% rule, or whatever.

I'm going to be dealing with one just like that and plan to relocate some if not all circuits to a new new panel (sister's house.)

For my "new" place I put in a meter box and a main breaker only box. But instead, I would suggest a Meter Main, then use Polaris connector to feed a main breaker panel and a fused disconnect. That frees you from 120% rule so you can have a large feed-through breaker (or fuse in disconnect) to a hybrid. And it lets you feed main panel from either grid or hybrid inverter.

I was told that I or the contractor am/is allowed to cut the lines, break the meter seal, install the new meter /panel and check with safety inspector.

What lines are they letting you cut??

 

[Solarisium]

If you use that CSED with center-fed main breaker, determine what backfed PV breaker you want and if it complies by 120% rule, 100% rule, or whatever.

The current PV complies with 120%. I suppose it still complies with a center-fed main? Lets me look at California EC:

Yes, the 120% rule does apply to center-fed main breaker panels. According to CEC 705.12(B)(2)(3), the sum of the ampere ratings of the overcurrent protection devices (OCPDs) connected to a panelboard's busbar, including the main breaker and any backfed breakers (such as those used for a photovoltaic system), must not exceed 120% of the panelboard's busbar rating.

For center-fed main breaker panels, this means that the total ampacity of the main breaker and the PV system breaker should not exceed 120% of the busbar's rated capacity. Additionally, the point of interconnection for the PV system should be at the opposite ends of the busbar from the center-fed main breaker to avoid exceeding the busbar's rated capacity in any part of the panel.

What lines are they letting you cut??

The lines between weatherhead and meter. That’s what SCE’s planner said. I plan to call SCE to disconnect and connect after install.

 

[Solarisium]

How is one suppose to unlock the barrel lock in a ring type meter?
Anyone has any suggestions?
To clarify, my utility did allow me or my contractor to break the seal, pull the meter and install the after panel upgrade.


What device is needed? Where can I get one? Can a homemade key be built?
This surprised me today when i was trying to prepare for the new panel install.

 

[Solarisium]

How is one suppose to unlock the barrel lock in a ring type meter?

Update:
SCE will unlock and remove it for me. Might take 1-2 days.
SCE customer support: 18006554555/ option 3, 3, 1.

Update: SCE sgowed up next day, and unlocked the meter in a minute.

 

[Solarisium]

Update: a surge protection device is now mandatory for residential units per my local inspector.

Anyone knows what device is a appropriate and approved for a residential unit?
Considering this device: square D Hepd25 25ka

 

[Hedges]

My inspector also made me put in one.

The one you show with breaker panel has wires running across, can't tell if it has the necessary branch breaker for the SPD.

Square-D also has plug-on surge arrestors.
The ones I got, for my QO panels, are little bit longer than the breakers, and interfere with breaker opposite them. Will fit better without a breaker across from it.

Anything with UL Listing should satisfy him.

 

[Solarisium]

To close this thread,
Installed the panel without cutting service wires. Removed the meter, removed the front housing of the old panel, unscrewed/detached the service wires, taped them sufficiently and zip-tied them away. Installed the new panel, connected the service wires (while live) and installed meter.
(Do not work on live wires, if you are not familiar with electrical work)
Connected all circuits, grounded, connected a surge protector, connected a new circuit (ev charger) and now pending inspector. After inspection/approval will call SCE to lock the meter.

The solar breaker is installed at the top, since the new 200A panel is a center-fed. Affixed all required PV system labels to the new panel.

It took me one full day to disconnect and re connect the power (lost one day of pv generation, although i used the Secure Power Supply outlet for fridge and modem/router). For two persons it can take far less maybe 2 hours maximum.
Thanks everyone who helped me with their guidance especially @Hedges.