Making a generator pig tail/adapter - Kubota GL11000 and 2(?) chargeverters

[immortl]

I have a Kubota Lowboy II GL11000 diesel generator rated for 10,000 watts (yes, watts, not kVa) continuous output (surge up to 11k). It has a 240v CS6369 output terminal, rated for 41.7a at 240v.

Primary use will be to charge batteries, currently 4 MNPowerflo16s, as needed during the winter, supplementing 19,200w of solar panels.

In order to run the generator around 80% of it's rated capacity, I'm figuring on running 2 Chargeverters outputting 54v 82ish amps each which translates to a 16.5a draw at 240v on the generator per chargeverter, so a total draw of 33ish amps at 240v on the generator. That should be around 80% output.

Question is, can I just build/wire a Y splitter off a CS6369 plug to 2 female L18-30P plugs? So 2 wires to each terminal on the CS6369 one of each running out to a L18-30P?

 

[Pete T]

I would think that would depend on whether you're concerned about code compliance or not. Generally manufacturers do not permit more than one wire connected to each terminal of a device. If the manufacturer doesn't explicitly allow it then code generally does not permit it.

But you can buy splitters.

CS6365 to dual CS6364, reasonable cost
https://toolup.com/products/southwi...EsLxhxJOJTRnXmt4zvPG8ij8Mm01xqeMaArpfEALw_wcB

CS6365 to L14-30 but pricey
https://www.bestmaterials.com/detai...x65JEb25sNcS2zGFkIwo_VRTXZqDAOyxzaw75UHp6nSaW

I read the Chargeverter uses a L14-30R plug, which has 4-wire grounding but the L18-30P you specified does not. Don't know if that was a typo or not.
If you want to do something on the cheap the best you could do might be to pigtail a CS6365 connector to a small junction box and use 50A terminals with jumpers to split to 2 30A pigtails. A cheap Amazon electrical enclosure would work, just be sure to connect a ground wire to the chassis.
I recently ordered a cheap Chinese CS6364 $20 plug but it would not fit my receptacle and ended up finding another Reliance brand unit on eBay.

I built a similar setup with 2 inverters charging and a 48V 60A Eco-Worthy charger for a very similar reason...I want to run my generator at a higher capacity for efficiency and to avoid wet-stacking. Using the same rating at 1.0 power factor as your lowboy, I can generate 13.8kW and have 21.2 net horsepower but I ran my CS6365 connector into an enclosure where I have breakers and distribution wiring that split the feed to 2 inverters and one L14-30R for my external charger. My panel is larger though because it also houses the output breakers and the DC breakers for the batteries.

A couple of observations I made with my system.
When I was charging around 7700W the generator was around 56% load and 0.99 power factor.
The generator handled it fine, except if the load rapidly changes (worse when increasing load), such as when charging kicks in and out.
When this happens it takes a moment for the governor to catch up and in that short time I would get a frequency fault (mostly on the inverters) and the charging would stop. The generator governor would quickly recover to essentially a no-load state and the frequency would stabilize and the load would kick in again and hit the generator with a surge load again. This created an oscillation. I think it was a worse problem when my inverters kicked on, as those add 80A to the charging. But the inverters and the 60A charger combined kicking in and out definitely created issues. It was fine if I started charging at a lower value and gradually raised it to the full rated amperage.

If you are using the EG4 Chargeverter, I think I read it has a soft-start and you should be able to avoid my issues, but just a heads up.

 

[XeonPony]

Proper way would be to feed to a load panel then a circuit to each load

Gen > CB into load panel > CB rated for the gauge of wire used > end load

Gauge of wire from gen to cb will depend on distance, same from load panel to load, this you need to calculate out.

 

[immortl]

@Pete T - thank you for the wealth of information. You are correct, the Chargeverter uses the L14-30R plug. Not sure where I got the L18-30P from. For a temporary use, I like that bestmaterials Y cable. I searched around some and the price for it seems fair.

@XeonPony - you raise an excellent point and for the permanent install, that is the approach I will take.

I need to do some more research and calculating. Currently, I'm thinking the chargeverters are how I'll want to charge the batteries long term. However, I will be installing 2 Victron Quattro 2 48V 10ks to provide 2 legs of 120V for the odd 240V load. I know I can run power to the AC in on at least one of them and have it charge the batteries. I don't think (but this is where I need to research more) I can have both charge the batteries. If I can apply the generators input to both Quattros and both will apply charge current for the batteries, then the Quattros may be the route I take for charging.

 

[XeonPony]

you work back wards

you know the target load, so you size wires based of distance Vs Voltage drop, max allowable is 5% desirable less then 3% for each device to feeder panel, then you size the breaker based on the wire (The breakers job is to protect the wire, not the device or you!)

Max cont allowable load is 80% of the systems rating, so all ways size the wire 1 up if it is close to load amps, I am very conservative so I use 1.25 multiplier

bit more in copper is a lot cheaper then making a new building and gear! Same for all connections, ensure they are clean and well torqued! and where exposure and vibration is I all so crimp & solder

Once you have all your loads figured out and in the box you repeat by calculating the voltage drop at load from the distance of the panel to genset.

As for running multiple chargers they should communicate with each other to sync up their rates and stages?

in split phase if both loads are equal they cancel out and neutral current is 0.

So if the chargers are 120v, one goes on L1 leg, and the other on L2 leg. if they sync up with each other the load is balanced. if they are 240 natively then same effect just 2 wires are needed + ground Vs 3 wires +ground

Not sure what the exact question / problem is, can you draw it out or explain it more clearly?

 

[Hedges]

Works. But the wires and probably ChargeVerter not rated for 50A.
Fuses or breakers on both poles would be preferred.

Since you've got the generator, you might want to set up a 3R breaker panel, which could have the two circuits you need for now.

 

[XeonPony]

Works. But the wires and probably ChargeVerter not rated for 50A.
Fuses or breakers on both poles would be preferred.

Since you've got the generator, you might want to set up a 3R breaker panel, which could have the two circuits you need for now.

you only concern your self with Hot phases (Poles)

for 240V (2 poles) the breaker MUST be bound so if either phase trips both phases trip in accordance to NEC and CEC.
For 120V you use a Single pole breaker.

Neutral and ground must be all ways in circuit except for power transfer systems switching sources such as Grid, to power plant, vice versa

The load will eat what ever current they want, you just have to size the wires to account for the maximum peak load.

Voltages only need to match, and current supply needs to be equal or greater then the loads demands. greater is usually ideal as the source will not be stressed and load will not suffer voltage sags.

6AWG is assuming some distance from load to genset, 8 awg Copper is acceptable if not too far (under 50 feet)

Same applies for the 12awg, if not to far from load panel go with 12awg, if far then 10awg.

 

[immortl]

I understand working somewhats backward. I am currently operating off of a temporary install consisting of a bit less than half the gear I have on hand. Half the gear/temporary install consists of - 20 ground mounted 400w panels, 3 MPPTs, 1 Quattro II 48v 10kva, and 2 16khw MNPowerflow16 batteries. I tossed this together to provide power while I work on the permanent 'to code' install. I was burning $20-$40 a day in gas for the smaller gas generator (40 were air conditioning days). With the 20 panels, during summer, I had more power than I could use despite running 2 12k BTU air conditioner units.

I am in the process of installing the other half of the gear into the permanent install and then I'll move the temporary gear over to the permanent install as well. I'm trying to get the permanent install in place before winter, but realistically I'll likely go into winter with the 20 panels to start and I'll need to use the diesel generator a bit. For this temporary use, the generator and chargeverter are within a few feet of the temporary system bus bar/gear.

For the permanent install, when I have the 2 Quattros configured and working together to provide 240 split phase I am unclear on two points. Been reading to try to figure these 2 points out.
A) Each Quattro only takes 120v input on the AC in ports. Can/should I 'split' the 240 out from the generator and run 120v leg to each Quattro? If I can do that and figure out how, I would use properly sized wire and circuit breakers.
B) Will each Quattro both provide charging current to the batteries? It seems in some configurations both will charge, but in others only one will. If, in 240v split phase both will send out charge current, I won't use the chargeverters, I'll use the Quattros. If only 1 Quattro will provide battery charging, then I'm interested in properly wiring in 2 chargeverters through a load center, with appropriately speced and sized circuit breakers and wiring.

 

[Pete T]

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