Maximizing Alpicool AC/DC 26Q/25L fridge run-time..

[fred333]

Bottom Line:
Looking for options to extend run-time (on an Inergy Apex when recharging isn't an option*) of an Alpicool 12/24DC/110AC 26 quart portable fridge. My goal is to be more or less operational with lights, internet, video, battery recharging and refrigeration for at least seven consecutive days.

Background:
After experiencing three week-long power outages over the past 10 years, reality has taught me that "prepping" is no longer just for off-gridders. So, a coupla years ago, I got an Inergy Apex solar charger (with two external lithium batteries incoming....so the Inergy folks keep saying..) and, to weather the next storm(s), a bunch o' DC- and/or efficient AC-powered gizmos—small AC TV/monitor (runs on ~11.5 watts), Blu-Ray/DVD player (runs on ~5 watts), TV antenna (0 watts), RaspberryPi 4 (runs on ~4 watts), portable washing machine/spin drier (runs on ~225 watts), hand-held Ham radios (run on rechargeable batteries), battery-powered "smart" fans (run on internal lithium, USB and/or six D cells) and battery-powered/oil/kerosene lamps, oodles of rechargeable AA, AAA and D batteries, Berkey (runs on gravity), et al.

What I've done for the Alpicool testing (the Alpi' filled with pre-cooled 1/2 gal milk, eggs, butter, flour):
I've tried...
- Running the Alpicool on both Max and Eco mode (Eco runs slightly longer)
- Running from both AC (converts 110 AC to 14.5DC) and DC (via the Apex's 12V cigarette lighter outputs) (unsurprisingly, DC runs ~twice as long as AC)
- Placing a coupla Techni-Ice packs in with the food (definitely helps reduce compressor usage)
- Surrounding 3/4 of the Alpicool case (top/bottom/sides) with Rmax R-Matte Plus-3 (two-inch hard, thermal foam with an R value of 12.5) (0 effect in extending run-time!)
- Installing a 12.2V DC-DC regulator between the Apex and Alpicool (although it DOES maintain Alpicool at 12.2V (when Apex is < 12V), 0 effect in extending run-time)
- Covering the Alpicool with a thermal cover from another portable fridge (seems to add a coupla hours to run-time)
- Finally, I'm currently mucking about with a mechanical timer to switch the AC power on for 15 minutes each hour (i.e., 45 minutes power OFF)

To date, however, the best I can do with the Alpicool powered by a fully-charged Apex (via DC and in Eco mode) is ~52 hours, assuming I don't open the fridge or run anything else from the Apex. So, even with the additional two lithium batteries (if/when they actually show up), I'm still only eeking out about six days of run-time....and that's running ONLY the fridge and nothing else. Sitting in the dark for a week with a nice, cold glass o' milk and a stalk of buttered celery doesn't quite cut it.

Anyone have experience extending an Alpicool running on batteries by DAYS rather than a few hours?

* Currently, reside in a small rented flat in an area where techie-looking thingys (e.g., PV panels) tend to "walk-away" when not under constant/direct supervision. So, although I've got a few PV panels, being able to implement them in public areas in an emergency is risky business.

 

[MrNatural22]

I have a Massimo made by Alpicool. 54qt 12/24v that I have been running in my kitchen connected to a 24v A123 LiFePo and I get 9-10 days use this time of the year. Thru the summer I was getting 6-7 days bringing the battery down to 20% SOC. Both fridges are set at 32deg F. These fridges seems to like 24v much better than 12v. I do have a second identical fridge inside my trailer running on the 12v LiFePo but I’ve never tried to see how long it would go on the 12v because the trailer solar keeps things charged. The one in my kitchen isn’t connected to solar yet but will be in the future. I charge the 24v back up with a 30v 10a PSU.

 

[snoobler]

Welcome to the forum.

Bottom Line:
Looking for options to extend run-time (on an Inergy Apex when recharging isn't an option*) of an Alpicool 12/24DC/110AC 26 quart portable fridge. My goal is to be more or less operational with lights, internet, video, battery recharging and refrigeration for at least seven consecutive days.

Bottom line:

No such thing as free energy. Get two more Inergy Apex. If it's an option, turn off the AC inverter. It burns juice just having 110VAC available even if not used.

Background:
After experiencing three week-long power outages over the past 10 years, reality has taught me that "prepping" is no longer just for off-gridders. So, a coupla years ago, I got an Inergy Apex solar charger (with two external lithium batteries incoming....so the Inergy folks keep saying..) and, to weather the next storm(s), a bunch o' DC- and/or efficient AC-powered gizmos—small AC TV/monitor (runs on ~11.5 watts), Blu-Ray/DVD player (runs on ~5 watts), TV antenna (0 watts), RaspberryPi 4 (runs on ~4 watts), portable washing machine/spin drier (runs on ~225 watts), hand-held Ham radios (run on rechargeable batteries), battery-powered "smart" fans (run on internal lithium, USB and/or six D cells) and battery-powered/oil/kerosene lamps, oodles of rechargeable AA, AAA and D batteries, Berkey (runs on gravity), et al.

What I've done for the Alpicool testing (the Alpi' filled with pre-cooled 1/2 gal milk, eggs, butter, flour):
I've tried...
- Running the Alpicool on both Max and Eco mode (Eco runs slightly longer)
- Running from both AC (converts 110 AC to 14.5DC) and DC (via the Apex's 12V cigarette lighter outputs) (unsurprisingly, DC runs ~twice as long as AC)

I've never heard of refrigerated flour.

When on AC, you're converting from DC (battery) to AC (inverter) to DC... at best, 75% efficient.

- Placing a coupla Techni-Ice packs in with the food (definitely helps reduce compressor usage)

How did it affect duration?

- Surrounding 3/4 of the Alpicool case (top/bottom/sides) with Rmax R-Matte Plus-3 (two-inch hard, thermal foam with an R value of 12.5) (0 effect in extending run-time!)

The fridge is a heat exchanger. Did you allow provisions for it to vent its waste heat outside the insulated volume?

- Installing a 12.2V DC-DC regulator between the Apex and Alpicool (although it DOES maintain Alpicool at 12.2V (when Apex is < 12V), 0 effect in extending run-time)

Lucky it didn't hurt it. Every conversion you make is a hit to efficiency.

- Covering the Alpicool with a thermal cover from another portable fridge (seems to add a coupla hours to run-time)
- Finally, I'm currently mucking about with a mechanical timer to switch the AC power on for 15 minutes each hour (i.e., 45 minutes power OFF)

The only thing this will do is increase the temperature of the contents inside. There is a certain amount of energy required to maintain a given temperature against an ambient temperature, and starving it of energy will increase the internal temperature. You may find something that works.

To date, however, the best I can do with the Alpicool powered by a fully-charged Apex (via DC and in Eco mode) is ~52 hours, assuming I don't open the fridge or run anything else from the Apex. So, even with the additional two lithium batteries (if/when they actually show up), I'm still only eeking out about six days of run-time....and that's running ONLY the fridge and nothing else. Sitting in the dark for a week with a nice, cold glass o' milk and a stalk of buttered celery doesn't quite cut it.

Anyone have experience extending an Alpicool running on batteries by DAYS rather than a few hours?

* Currently, reside in a small rented flat in an area where techie-looking thingys (e.g., PV panels) tend to "walk-away" when not under constant/direct supervision. So, although I've got a few PV panels, being able to implement them in public areas in an emergency is risky business.

You really need to sit down and establish what your minimum energy needs are for an entire week (lights, charging, etc) and then design a system around it. You're never going to get to where you want to go using your existing approach.

 

[fred333]

I have a Massimo made by Alpicool. 54qt 12/24v that I have been running in my kitchen connected to a 24v A123 LiFePo and I get 9-10 days use this time of the year. Thru the summer I was getting 6-7 days bringing the battery down to 20% SOC. Both fridges are set at 32deg F. These fridges seems to like 24v much better than 12v.

I can't see why 24V should be any more efficient than either 12- or 110, but that's the only thing (I can think of) that I haven't been able to test.
Are you running directly from the LiFePo battery or is the battery contained within a solar charger?
Thank you for your input.

 

[snoobler]

24V is 2X voltage and 1/2 current vs. 12V

2X voltage and 1/2 current = 1/4th the losses in electrical resistance.

Conceptually: if you were losing 8% in efficiency due to resistance at 12V, you'd lose 2% at 24V.

 

[fred333]

Bottom line:
No such thing as free energy. Get two more Inergy Apex. If it's an option, turn off the AC inverter. It burns juice just having 110VAC available even if not used.

I've never heard of refrigerated flour.

When on AC, you're converting from DC (battery) to AC (inverter) to DC... at best, 75% efficient.
How did it affect duration?

The fridge is a heat exchanger. Did you allow provisions for it to vent its waste heat outside the insulated volume?
Lucky it didn't hurt it. Every conversion you make is a hit to efficiency.

The only thing this will do is increase the temperature of the contents inside. There is a certain amount of energy required to maintain a given temperature against an ambient temperature, and starving it of energy will increase the internal temperature. You may find something that works.

You really need to sit down and establish what your minimum energy needs are for an entire week (lights, charging, etc) and then design a system around it. You're never going to get to where you want to go using your existing approach.

Thanks for the detailed reply.
Re turning off the inverter: It's OFF during all of the DC-based tests. So not an issue.

Re refrigerated flour: When I began testing (last month), that was the only large cold item I had on hand (besides the milk, eggs and butter), so I used it to add [cold] mass inside the 'fridge. Now, I just keep using the flour so as not to add new variables to my testing.

Re duration AC vs DC: My best run via the AC inverter resulted in the Apex down 66% after 19 hours. So it was clearly not gonna make it to the two-day mark. The best run so far (~52 hours) was with the DC-DC regulator (12.2V) and with the Alpi' covered with its thermal cover.

Re venting: Yes, I've only covered 3/4 of the Alpi', leaving all three vents (at the right end of the unit) uncovered.

Re minimum requirements: Not to be glib, but I outlined that in the Bottom Line. I know initial forum posts are a bit confusing, so I posted my goal first for those (like me) who don't always have time to read lengthy background details BEFORE getting to the bottom line point or question. My apologies if I was obtuse.

 

[snoobler]

Re minimum requirements: Not to be glib, but I outlined that in the Bottom Line. I know initial forum posts are a bit confusing, so I posted my goal first for those (like me) who don't always have time to read lengthy background details BEFORE getting to the bottom line point or question. My apologies if I was obtuse.

An outline is not sufficient. Details matter.

"glib" and "obtuse" have been introduced into this discussion. I will address those first.

Glib:

glib

1. speaking or spoken in a confident way, but without careful thought or…

dictionary.cambridge.org

speaking or spoken in a confident way, but without careful thought or honesty:

Based on that definition, I would conclude you are being glib.

You have not stated an attainable goal. You have not given it careful thought. I get the impression that you believe you spoke confidently and clearly, yet you failed to establish or convey meaningful information.

Obtuse:

obtuse

1. (of an angle) more than 90° and less than 180° 2. stupid and slow to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

stupid and slow to understand, or unwilling to try to understand:

At worst, I would tentatively suggest that you are perhaps slow to understand this specific situation and the amount of planning that needs to occur; however, I would not conclude that you are stupid or unwilling to try.

Having addressed the vocabulary, I'll move on.

Let me be specific:

How much energy does your fridge use in a week?
How much energy do your lights lights use in a week?
How much energy does your internet usage require for a week?
How much energy does your "video" use in a week?
How much energy does your battery recharging use in a week?
etc.

Until you can answer those questions, you can't accomplish your goal. You will either fall short, you will spend to much money, or you will get lucky. Nobody gets lucky.

Once you can answer the above, you can use trivial arithmetic to determine what meets those goals.

Assuming this is your unit:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1654/8245/files/Apex_User_Manual_08_23_19_Online_single_stack_28ce24bd-7b32-45c3-9db0-f16e3923f94f.pdf?2077

The base and two spare batteries is merely 3100Wh of energy. This is an itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny amount of energy for 7 days. The inverter idle draw alone would require over half the available energy, i.e., just having the inverter on would use about 1680Wh in a week even if you didn't use it, and I'm being optimistic assuming it only consumes 10W.

Link #1 in my signature is to a resource to conduct an energy audit to establish your actual need (answering the 5 "How much energy..." questions above).

 

[Forbisher]

My Iceco 12V / 120V YD42liter record is 6.66 watts per hour running directly off a 100Ah Battle Born. 8 days run time.
Fridge set at 32°

A 2nd test in slightly warmer temps was 8 watts per hour and 6 and a half days.

 

[fred333]

Let me be specific:
How much energy does your fridge use in a week?
How much energy do your lights lights use in a week?
How much energy does your internet usage require for a week?
How much energy does your "video" use in a week?
How much energy does your battery recharging use in a week?
etc.
Until you can answer those questions, you can't accomplish your goal. You will either fall short, you will spend to much money, or you will get lucky. Nobody gets lucky.
Once you can answer the above, you can use trivial arithmetic to determine what meets those goals.
Assuming this is your unit:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1654/8245/files/Apex_User_Manual_08_23_19_Online_single_stack_28ce24bd-7b32-45c3-9db0-f16e3923f94f.pdf?2077

The base and two spare batteries is merely 3100Wh of energy. This is an itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny amount of energy for 7 days. The inverter idle draw alone would require over half the available energy, i.e., just having the inverter on would use about 1680Wh in a week even if you didn't use it, and I'm being optimistic assuming it only consumes 10W.

Snoobler, were I looking to setup a full-time off-grid system, your calculations would be sound and merited....and would've been the very place I'd start (i.e., I'd've spent more time with the Kill-a-watt before doing ANY testing). But I got the Apex, Alpicool, and all the rest solely as an emergency back-up in the event of another week-long power outage; I'm not going to be permanently living off them. While I understand where you're coming from, I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel (or replace what I've already got). Does that make sense?

 

[fred333]

My Iceco 12V / 120V YD42liter record is 6.66 watts per hour running directly off a 100Ah Battle Born. 8 days run time.
Fridge set at 32°
A 2nd test in slightly warmer temps was 8 watts per hour and 6 and a half days.

So you've got the Iceco's 12V power input wired directly to the Battle Born's terminals with nothing in between them, and the 'fridge is drawing a constant 6.66 watts 24/7 for eight days? Do I have that right?

These're the kind of experiences I've been reading about for the past year or so. I keep hearing how the Apex (or similar 100Ah battery) was able to run an XpertPower or Ausranvik or Alpicool 12V 'fridge non-stop for "several days", but, in spite of everything I know to do, I've not been able to get more than a coupla days outta these things (I'm seeing draws from the Alpi' that generally vary between ~33~43 watts on Eco (Alpicool rates my fridge at "60 watts")). And that's what brought me here....hoping someone could spot the detail in my setup that's lacking, because, somehow, people're doin' it.

 

[snoobler]

Snoobler, were I looking to setup a full-time off-grid system, your calculations would be sound and merited....and would've been the very place I'd start (i.e., I'd've spent more time with the Kill-a-watt before doing ANY testing). But I got the Apex, Alpicool, and all the rest solely as an emergency back-up in the event of another week-long power outage; I'm not going to be permanently living off them. While I understand where you're coming from, I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel (or replace what I've already got). Does that make sense?

Not in the least. You actually are trying to reinvent the wheel rather than use the known tools.

You think there's a difference between the two. There isn't one. The method and arithmetic are exactly the same.

You want to provide 7 days worth of energy for various items. They have a need. You need to satisfy that need. Doesn't matter if you're powering stuff in a flat because the grid is down for 7 days, or you're off grid. No difference whatsoever.

As you've determined, your existing "method" yields a "solution" that only gives you six days of fridge use while sitting in the dark drinking milk and eating buttered celery.

You didn't follow the tried and true approach, and now you have thousands of dollars worth of hardware that won't meet your needs. Rather than take an objective look at the situation, you're fighting to defend the choices you've made, and you've convinced yourself the fridge is the problem.

The simple problem is you use more energy than the Inergy Apex and two spare batteries can provide in a week.

 

[fred333]

The simple problem is you use more energy than the Inergy Apex and two spare batteries can provide in a week.

How do you reckon this out (the Apex has a similar battery and my fridge is smaller):
"My Iceco 12V / 120V YD42liter record is 6.66 watts per hour running directly off a 100Ah Battle Born. 8 days run time.
Fridge set at 32°
A 2nd test in slightly warmer temps was 8 watts per hour and 6 and a half days." —Forbisher

 

[MrNatural22]

I can't see why 24V should be any more efficient than either 12- or 110, but that's the only thing (I can think of) that I haven't been able to test.
Are you running directly from the LiFePo battery or is the battery contained within a solar charger?
Thank you for your input.

Yes my fridge is connected directly to the batteries in both the 12v trailer LiFePo and the 24v LiFePo in the kitchen.

 

[fred333]

Yes my fridge is connected directly to the batteries in both the 12v trailer LiFePo and the 24v LiFePo in the kitchen.

And you're able to run your fridge 24/7 for a week without recharging the batteries?

 

[snoobler]

How do you reckon this out (the Apex has a similar battery and my fridge is almost half the size):
"My Iceco 12V / 120V YD42liter record is 6.66 watts per hour running directly off a 100Ah Battle Born. 8 days run time.
Fridge set at 32°
A 2nd test in slightly warmer temps was 8 watts per hour and 6 and a half days." —Forbisher

The Apex has a smaller battery.

It's being powered directly by the battery, so there is no other circuitry pulling a load, nor is there any conversion loss.
The Apex battery is also a 3S Lithium NMC battery meaning it runs at lower voltage and requires regulation to maintain a usable 12V output.
That fridge may be more efficient.
He may have left out the flour.

 

[Forbisher]

Yes the Iceco is wired directly to the BB LFP with a 12V lighter plug harness.
The Iceco uses a 120VAC to DC power block which I did not use during the 8 day test.

The Iceco was precooled with 120V and run off the car for 6 hours.
Then the 8 day test started on only the 1280wh BB until battery was about 10.5V

Iceco YD42 runs for about 12? minutes every hour which averaged out as 6.66watts over 8 days.

8 days is 192 hours into 1280wH is 6.66 watts

So you've got the Iceco's 12V power input wired directly to the Battle Born's terminals with nothing in between them, and the 'fridge is drawing a constant 6.66 watts 24/7 for eight days? Do I have that right?

These're the kind of experiences I've been reading about for the past year or so. I keep hearing how the Apex (or similar 100Ah battery) was able to run an XpertPower or Ausranvik or Alpicool 12V 'fridge non-stop for "several days",

 

[snoobler]

Yes the Iceco is wired directly to the BB LFP with a 12V lighter plug harness.
The Iceco uses a 120VAC to DC power block which I did not use during the 8 day test.

The Iceco was precooled with 120V and run off the car for 6 hours.
Then the 8 day test started on only the 1280wh BB until battery was about 10.5V

Iceco YD42 runs for about 12? minutes every hour which averaged out as 6.66watts over 8 days.

8 days is 192 hours into 1280wH is 6.66 watts

What was in it?

Flour?

 

[MrNatural22]

And you're able to run your fridge 24/7 for a week without recharging the batteries?

The one using 24v will run almost 8-10 days during cooler weather and cycle much less.
During warmer weather the compressor cycles on 4 times per hour and runs for <minutes per cycle.
there is no power draw in between cycles.
that works out to <20> minutes of power per hour.

24v battery is a 2600wh LiFePo
2600wh/16= 162.5 hours or almost 7 days.

 

[snoobler]

What was in it?

Flour?

@Forbisher

Seriously though... what was in it? Was it completely full? Were you using it during that time?

These things make a big difference.

 

[fred333]

The Apex has a smaller battery.

It's being powered directly by the battery, so there is no other circuitry pulling a load, nor is there any conversion loss.
The Apex battery is also a 3S Lithium NMC battery meaning it runs at lower voltage and requires regulation to maintain a usable 12V output.
That fridge may be more efficient.
He may have left out the flour.

The Apex's battery is 10% smaller and, okay, let's be big about it and throw out another 10% for the differing battery chemistries and direct connection to the Battle Born. But that still doesn't explain the days-long differences in running time for two fridges that likely have similar (or the same) electrics. Can you explain that?