Maybe now that CNN is finally saying it, the lefties will finally listen

[noenegdod]

"People with obesity are 46% more at risk of getting Covid-19, according to a study from August. It found that they are also more at risk of getting really sick, facing a 113% higher chance of being hospitalized, a 74% higher risk of needing to be treated in the ICU and -- perhaps most troubling of all -- a 48% increased risk of death."

"The risk goes up and up and up with each increase in body mass index (BMI)"

Can weight loss help protect against Covid-19? | CNN

In the holiday season, when the average American can easily pack on a few pounds, experts say there is another reason to pay attention to your weight: Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

Should we not be mandating weight loss?

 

[svetz]

Should we not be mandating weight loss?

That only kills you, not others. Same thing with not wearing motorcycle helmets. So no, no reason to mandate it IMO.
Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others, so there is reason to mandate that just as there are laws against driving while under the influence.

 

[Bob B]

That only kills you, not others. Same thing with not wearing motorcycle helmets. So no, no reason to mandate it IMO.
Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others, so there is reason to mandate that just as there are laws against driving while under the influence.

I posted the link on another thread .... I can go back and find it if necessary .... When analyzing the data, no correlation exists between the number of cases and the % of the population that is vaccinated. In some areas, the correlation was actually the opposite.
This indicates that the vaccinated are able to spread the disease just as easily as the unvaccinated.

There was a pre-omicron outbreak at Cornell university where the vaccination rate was 99% that caused them to shut down classes.

I do believe the cases are less severe if vaccinated .... That is why I an my wife are vaccinated ....but this data takes away the argument that the unvaccinated are the ones spreading Covid.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

"People with obesity are 46% more at risk of getting Covid-19, according to a study from August. It found that they are also more at risk of getting really sick, facing a 113% higher chance of being hospitalized, a 74% higher risk of needing to be treated in the ICU and -- perhaps most troubling of all -- a 48% increased risk of death."

"The risk goes up and up and up with each increase in body mass index (BMI)"

Can weight loss help protect against Covid-19? | CNN

In the holiday season, when the average American can easily pack on a few pounds, experts say there is another reason to pay attention to your weight: Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

Should we not be mandating weight loss?

I am confused, are there a ton of people saying being overweight doesn't effect health, on the left or right side? Who is saying being overweight isn't a risk?

That only kills you, not others. Same thing with not wearing motorcycle helmets. So no, no reason to mandate it IMO.
Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others, so there is reason to mandate that just as there are laws against driving while under the influence.

Ah, so being more likely to get/incubate covid, higher viral load, mutations, putting more of a strain on the healthcare system, doesn't kill anyone? If only!

 

[noenegdod]

That only kills you, not others. Same thing with not wearing motorcycle helmets. So no, no reason to mandate it IMO.
Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others, so there is reason to mandate that just as there are laws against driving while under the influence.

Wrong!

I really do not understand why this is so hard to understand.

You have made the statement: "Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others"

1. If you are overweigh, your immune system does not have as good a response to the vaccine or to an infection.
2. If you are choosing to put yourself in a physical condition that makes the vaccine less efficacious then you are in fact choosing to kill others based on your statement above.
3. Not getting vaccinated and being sick has the same impact on those around you as being vaccinated and being sick. You shed the same amount of virus and are sick for essentially just as long.

The helmet analogy isnt relevant. You can shoot yourself in the head too and that only kills you, oh wait, unless you shoot yourself in the head and the bullet goes through a wall or floor and hits someone else. Wearing seat belts doesnt save anyone else, oh wait, unless you rattle around and smash up others in the vehicle. Wearing a helmet doesnt save anyone else unless it stops a bouncing rock that hits you in the head and you loose control and hit another vehicle. These types of arguments are nothing more than distractions.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Wrong!

I really do not understand why this is so hard to understand.

You have made the statement: "Not getting vaccinated on the other hand kills others"

1. If you are overweigh, your immune system does not have as good a response to the vaccine or to an infection.
2. If you are choosing to put yourself in a physical condition that makes the vaccine less efficacious then you are in fact choosing to kill others based on your statement above.
3. Not getting vaccinated and being sick has the same impact on those around you as being vaccinated and being sick. You shed the same amount of virus and are sick for essentially just as long.

The helmet analogy isnt relevant. You can shoot yourself in the head too and that only kills you, oh wait, unless you shoot yourself in the head and the bullet goes through a wall or floor and hits someone else. Wearing seat belts doesnt save anyone else, oh wait, unless you rattle around and smash up others in the vehicle. Wearing a helmet doesnt save anyone else unless it stops a bouncing rock that hits you in the head and you loose control and hit another vehicle. These types of arguments are nothing more than distractions.

Yeah, some people knee jerk, I was asking you to show someone who didn't see the risk overweight people posed on society and then the next post was someone oblivious to it.

 

[noenegdod]

I am confused, are there a ton of people saying being overweight doesn't effect health, on the left or right side? Who is saying being overweight isn't a risk?

The vast majority of times someone says that healthy people are dying from covid 19, it is an overweight person. Yes, a ton of people are saying being overweight doesn't effect health. Google HAES.

 

[svetz]

....but this data takes away the argument that the unvaccinated are the ones spreading Covid....

I think it's the other way around now. The vaccinated can catch covid easily with Omicron and are contagious, but as the symptoms are usually mild for the vaccinated they're spreading it...which mostly impacts the unvaccinated as it hits them harder on average and it's more contaigous.

I really do not understand why this is so hard to understand.

Keep at it, you'll get there. I have faith in you! Try reading the response again... it was about if there should be a mandate or not (which is what your question was) - everything else is something you read into it.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

The vast majority of times someone says that healthy people are dying from covid 19, it is an overweight person. Yes, a ton of people are saying being overweight doesn't effect health. Google HAES.

Oof, there is a difference between fat shaming someone till they cry tears into their gallon tub of ice cream and a doctor telling them what they are doing has a dramatic effect on their quality of life and longevity as well as the impact they would have on others such as plane flights, etc.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Keep at it, you'll get there. I have faith in you! Try reading the response again... it was about if there should be a mandate or not (which is what your question was) - everything else is something you read into it.

I guess he could have made it easier for you by posting the study and screenshotting it.... vaccine reduces odds of contracting covid, being obese increases odds, hence some similarities.

Individuals with obesity and COVID‐19: A global perspective on the epidemiology and biological relationships

The linkage of individuals with obesity and COVID-19 is controversial and lacks systematic reviews. After a systematic search of the Chinese and English language literature on COVID-19, 75 studies we...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

 

[svetz]

I guess he could have made it easier for you by posting the study and screenshotting it.... vaccine reduces odds of contracting covid, being obese increases odds, hence some similarities.

It wouldn't have made a difference, I was never arguing that point. I was pointing out that the mandate against fat people was a stupid idea. I liken it to motorcycle helmets, it's a danger with risks ... but it primarily affects that person rather than others so there was no need for a mandate.

It's not just fat people. It's the elderly, those with chronic immune deficiencies (e.g., any form of cancer treatment) or any of the other high-risk factors. Trying to say it's okay because it only affects certain classes of people is socially irresponsible and repugnant. We should all be doing what we can to end the pandemic as it's the socially responsible thing to do.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

It wouldn't have made a difference, I was never arguing that point. I was pointing out that the mandate against fat people was a stupid idea. I liken it to motorcycle helmets, it's a danger with risks ... but it primarily affects that person rather than others.

It's not just fat people. It's the elderly, those with chronic immune deficiencies (e.g., any form of cancer treatment) or any of the other high-risk factors. Trying to say it's okay because it only affects certain classes of people is socially irresponsible and repugnant. We should all be doing what we can to end the pandemic as it's the socially responsible thing to do.

46% more likely to contract due to obesity vs 50 or 70 or 90% less likely with the vaccine, and you think it primarily affects that person rather than others?

Its not just fat people, it's the elderly.... ok, lets have those elderly stop being lazy or unmotivated and shed some of those years! Let's have those immune deficient people buck up and stop being deficient.... let's have the overweight diet and exercise.... or else they can't go into a restaurant without a less risky BMI. There appears to a breakdown in the logic here where you equate being higher risk due to things that you cannot change, vs those that can be changed.

 

[svetz]

...There appears to a breakdown in the logic here where you equate being higher risk due to things that you cannot change, vs those that can be changed.

Really? Can't see how you'd think that. I'll try again...

• The ONLY question in the OP was should there be a mandate against fat people? That's the topic. My opinion is "no" because for those that can change their risk factor (e.g., obesity) it is a personal choice as to what they do as they primarily only put themselves at risk. Just like riding a motocycle without a helmet it's a personal choice and as the risk doesn't affect others it is not worthy of a mandate.
• I'm also saying there are a lot of folks at risk with other conditions (far more at risk than fat folks) and there's nothing they can do. I point this out as the innuendo that it's okay to do nothing because it only affects fat people who have a choice in the matter is personally repugnant.
• Finally, I'm saying we should all be socially responsible to do what we can to end the pandemic because it kills people.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Really? Can't see how you'd think that. I'll try again...

• The ONLY question in the OP was should there be a mandate against fat people? That's the topic. My opinion is "no" because for those that can change their risk factor (e.g., obesity) it is a personal choice as to what they do as they primarily only put themselves at risk. Just like riding a motocycle without a helmet it's a personal choice and as the risk doesn't affect others it is not worthy of a mandate.

Really? Guess we will keep repeating ourselves.... if you are 46% more likely to get Covid because of obesity, and we are mandating intrusive body treatments like vaccines, then it isn't completely bonkers to bar obese people from areas you would bar unvaccinated people from.

• I'm also saying there are a lot of folks at risk with other conditions (far more at risk than fat folks) and there's nothing they can do. I point this out as the innuendo that it's okay to do nothing because it only affects fat people who have a choice in the matter is personally repugnant.

Repeating, the study shows 46% more likely to get Covid, which means more likely to spread it, and with an increased virulence, potentially even more likely to spread it than non-overweight people due to higher viral load.

• Finally, I'm saying we should all be socially responsible to do what we can to end the pandemic because it kills people.

I agree, get vaccinated, socially distance, minimize close exposure indoors,wear masks, and lose weight.

 

[noenegdod]

Really? Can't see how you'd think that. I'll try again...

• The ONLY question in the OP was should there be a mandate against fat people? That's the topic. My opinion is "no" because for those that can change their risk factor (e.g., obesity) it is a personal choice as to what they do as they primarily only put themselves at risk.

It is a personal choice that effects the efficacy of the vaccine. Vaccines have been mandated so that is a personal choice that has been taken away. Being overweight reduces the effectiveness of a mandated health intervention. Obese people with the vaccine are putting me at as much risk as a healthy unvaccinated person.

Finally, I'm saying we should all be socially responsible to do what we can to end the pandemic because it kills people.

Like mandatory loosing weight to improve the efficacy of the mandatory vaccine?

 

[noenegdod]

• I'm also saying there are a lot of folks at risk with other conditions (far more at risk than fat folks) and there's nothing they can do. I point this out as the innuendo that it's okay to do nothing because it only affects fat people who have a choice in the matter is personally repugnant.

Basically every one of these people have ended up with other conditions because of lifestyle factors they chose, including obesity.

 

[noenegdod]

Oof, there is a difference between fat shaming someone till they cry tears into their gallon tub of ice cream and a doctor telling them what they are doing has a dramatic effect on their quality of life and longevity as well as the impact they would have on others such as plane flights, etc.

Yup, It is absolute crazy.

I posted this in a different thread:

Alberta minister of health for the NDP party

 

[svetz]

... then it isn't completely bonkers to bar obese people from areas you would bar unvaccinated people from.

Barring from a social venue isn't a mandate. It's a social venue, bar who you like.

But a mandate that excludes fat people from working and being able to feed their families which is the thread topic? That's very different.

Haven't seen any evidence regarding vaccinated fat people being more at risk so you might be good with just barring the unvaccinated (although with Omicron it wouldn't be bonkers as you put it to exclude them from your social event. In fact, it might be considered bonkers to hold any social event). Even if you had data that obese vaccinated were more at risk I'd be hard-pressed to be in favor of a mandate against them whereas I am in favor of a vaccination mandate for everyone approved for it. An IR screen for elevated temperature would make more sense than a mandate.

Considering 42.4% of Americans qualify as obese (ref), a vaccine mandate makes more sense to me and the large number of obese could skew causation anyway. For example, Spain is considered one of the "fittest" countries in the world (ref), but Covid wise they're not doing anywhere near as well (ref) as Canada and just a little worse than the U.S. (although that could be for any number of other factors from genetics to the health care system).

I agree, get vaccinated, socially distance, minimize close exposure indoors,wear masks, and lose weight.

Hah! We can agree! That wasn't so hard. ; -)

 

[Bob B]

In Illinois, our 400 Lb governor loves to get behind a podium and lecture us about what to do to be healthy.

 

[noenegdod]

But a mandate that excludes fat people from working and being able to feed their families which is the thread topic? That's very different.

So for clarity, and please correct me if I am wrong. What you are saying is:

• You are ok with preventing a person from working because they have not been vaccinated, but you are not ok with preventing a person who has been vaccinated but because of their physical condition has similar levels of immunity to a healthy unvaccinated person.

Does the above statement represent you point of view?

Haven't seen any evidence regarding vaccinated fat people being more at risk

Did you read the article in the OP? Its from CNN. Its about as left as you can get. Shale MacGregor posted another link.

"Pooled analysis show individuals with obesity were more at risk for COVID-19 positive, >46.0% higher (OR = 1.46; 95% CI, 1.30–1.65; p < 0.0001); for hospitalization, 113% higher (OR = 2.13; 95% CI, 1.74–2.60; p < 0.0001); for ICU admission, 74% higher (OR = 1.74; 95% CI, 1.46–2.08); and for mortality, 48% increase in deaths (OR = 1.48; 95% CI, 1.22–1.80; p < 0.001)."

You just have to look, its there.

Even if you had data that obese vaccinated were more at risk I'd be hard-pressed to be in favor of a mandate against them whereas I am in favor of a vaccination mandate for everyone.

Explain this please. Obese people are at significantly higher risk and they need a vaccination to simply be close to being on par with an actual healthy person. If you mandate everyone then there is still a disparity between healthy and obese and they are putting everyone else at risk (I dont actually believe this but it is the argument used against the unvaccinated that present an equal risk to the vaccinated obese.)

Considering 42.4% of Americans qualify as obese (ref), a vaccine mandate makes more sense to me and the large number of obese could skew causation anyway. For example, Spain is considered one of the "fittest" countries in the world (ref), but Covid wise they're not doing anywhere near as well (ref) as Canada and just a little worse than the U.S. (although that could be for any number of other factors from genetics to the health care system).

over 2/3s of Americans are considered overweight. The distinction between overweight and obese has made all the numbers a lot smaller then they otherwise would have been.

As for Spain, it wasnt the fittest but the healthiest based on the Bloomberg categories, which are all potentially garbage. Sure, they may have low rates of obesity but the entire population could be overweight but not meet the criteria of obese. There is no metric for activity. Lists and rankings like this are dumb and so easy to manipulate.