diy solar

diy solar

Meet my new generator, got a few questions.

N

Nan_wpg

Solar Enthusiast
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Mar 10, 2020
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picked this up today. Normally priced @ $1400.00 CDN. store clearance for $980.00. Pretty happy with the purchase thus far.

couple questions about the generator itself:

1. Air filter…. How to oil? (All my small engine stuff either has no filter (snowthrower), or a paper throw away. We have a Honda at the cabin but my (deceased) father in law always maintained it. So I’m new to foam filters.

2. Oil. Factory stuff is conventional. 5 hours then change (break in). A small engine is a small engine right? I use amsoil “small engine” synthetic 5-30 for all my stuff. Supposedly has higher zinc. Who knows? (I used to use plain old synthetic 5-30).
what are you guys using?

now just wondering (not sure if I should post elsewhere) what output to use? 20A, or 30A twist?

im 99.99% sure I will be buying a Victron multipluss inverter/charger. The plan is to build a diy “ecoflo” type power box for our cabin. I will be using my champion to charge it up.

in the off season (winter) the power box will come home.

im undecided about 24v or 48v but either way it’s 1680 watts of charging. (48 x 35, or 24 x 70). Unless I’ve calculated wrong i should be pulling under 20 amps of ac to do this.

the genny has 20a outlets, and a 30a twist. wondering what type of plug to put on the Victron?

if I put a twist, then I can only use the generator to charge, but a 20a plug I can plug it in at home.

also wondering about the bonding? It’s a floating neutral. The Victron is bonded to neutral, but when it receives power it looks for the neutral from “shore”.

the power box will be on a handcart for now, and the cabin “plugs” into it. (Cabin is on one circuit).

there is no grid, no ground rod, no electrical panel. Cabin is wired up, and terminates to an extention cord that plugs into the generator (and my power box when built).

our current Honda is floating. Victron will be bonded when inverting. Thoughts?
 
One other thing (for champion owners)… what are the 4 bolts on the bottom that have to be removed before using? Do they just reinforce the frame and what not for shipping?
 
Nan_wpg said:
the genny has 20a outlets, and a 30a twist. wondering what type of plug to put on the Victron?

if I put a twist, then I can only use the generator to charge, but a 20a plug I can plug it in at home.
Click to expand...

Maybe consider putting an inlet socket (probably not the best price/source/model - just an example) on your cart, then you can use different cords/adapters as needed for different power sources?
 
Symbioquine said:
Maybe consider putting an inlet socket (probably not the best price/source/model - just an example) on your cart, then you can use different cords/adapters as needed for different power sources?
Click to expand...

it’s a shared cabin so I’d like to keep it simple. (When battery needs charging plug into generator). Don’t want to be messing with adaptors that can be lost or misplaced.
 
1) Filter is washed with warm water & dish soap. Then after thoroughly squeezed out & dry, a few drop of motor oil on it and squished in. Use rubber gloves when doing so.

2) yes the default is Organic Oil for 5 hours. I switched to 0W30 Synthetic afterwards. Remember 0W3- - First # is how fast it flows & second # for Hi Temp lubrication. I always use 0WXX oil to get that oil on the valves fast, especially in the cold. It get's to -30C in winter & +40C in Summer here so covered for both.

I use the L5:30 Plug which plugs into my Powerhouse. That provides me with 120VAC up to 30A. I use my Samlex EVO Inverter/Charger set to 80A Charging for 24V Battery Bank. At 80A Charging, it is only pulling 120V/23A + Passthrough

I do not Ground the generator, as the L5:30 Plug has a ground and the wall plug on my powerhouse IS bonded & grounded to the main AC Circuit and this works just fine.

Of Note... I have been charging my battery bank via the L5:30 and also using a Car Battery Charger to charge one of my vehicles at the same time and that was plugged into one of the 120V/20A Plugs and no problems.
 
Nan_wpg said:
1. Air filter…. How to oil? (All my small engine stuff either has no filter (snowthrower), or a paper throw away. We have a Honda at the cabin but my (deceased) father in law always maintained it. So I’m new to foam filters.
Click to expand...
Pour a little oil on the filter, wring it out so it's only slightly damp. You're good.

Nan_wpg said:
2. Oil. Factory stuff is conventional. 5 hours then change (break in). A small engine is a small engine right? I use amsoil “small engine” synthetic 5-30 for all my stuff. Supposedly has higher zinc. Who knows? (I used to use plain old synthetic 5-30).
what are you guys using?
Click to expand...
Whatever the manual says to use, be it 5-30 or straight 30 or 5-25, as long as it's the correct numbers the oil brand doesn't really matter. Once you have done the break-in and go to synthetic you're fine.

Nan_wpg said:
now just wondering (not sure if I should post elsewhere) what output to use? 20A, or 30A twist?
Click to expand...
When in doubt use the 30a. Can't have too much power.

Nan_wpg said:
im 99.99% sure I will be buying a Victron multipluss inverter/charger. The plan is to build a diy “ecoflo” type power box for our cabin. I will be using my champion to charge it up.
Click to expand...
OK.

Nan_wpg said:
in the off season (winter) the power box will come home.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.

Nan_wpg said:
im undecided about 24v or 48v but either way it’s 1680 watts of charging. (48 x 35, or 24 x 70). Unless I’ve calculated wrong i should be pulling under 20 amps of ac to do this.
Click to expand...
Math sounds about right.

Nan_wpg said:
the genny has 20a outlets, and a 30a twist. wondering what type of plug to put on the Victron?
Click to expand...
Nan_wpg said:
if I put a twist, then I can only use the generator to charge, but a 20a plug I can plug it in at home.
Click to expand...
Wire it up for the 30a head and them make yourself a 30a-20a adapter for when you bring it home. If you're drawing up near the limit of the socket you're risking damaging the outlet.

Nan_wpg said:
also wondering about the bonding? It’s a floating neutral. The Victron is bonded to neutral, but when it receives power it looks for the neutral from “shore”.
Click to expand...
Pass. Someone else will hopefully know the answer for this one.

Nan_wpg said:
the power box will be on a handcart for now, and the cabin “plugs” into it. (Cabin is on one circuit)
Click to expand...
Nan_wpg said:
there is no grid, no ground rod, no electrical panel. Cabin is wired up, and terminates to an extension cord that plugs into the generator (and my power box when built).

our current Honda is floating. Victron will be bonded when inverting. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Pass. The whole bonding neutral grounding issue is a can of worms I still haven't wrapped my head around completely, but if you're up to it you can always bury a grounding plate at the cabin where the generator will live and clip into it when you get there.
 
Steve_S said:
1) Filter is washed with warm water & dish soap. Then after thoroughly squeezed out & dry, a few drop of motor oil on it and squished in. Use rubber gloves when doing so.

2) yes the default is Organic Oil for 5 hours. I switched to 0W30 Synthetic afterwards. Remember 0W3- - First # is how fast it flows & second # for Hi Temp lubrication. I always use 0WXX oil to get that oil on the valves fast, especially in the cold. It get's to -30C in winter & +40C in Summer here so covered for both.

I use the L5:30 Plug which plugs into my Powerhouse. That provides me with 120VAC up to 30A. I use my Samlex EVO Inverter/Charger set to 80A Charging for 24V Battery Bank. At 80A Charging, it is only pulling 120V/23A + Passthrough

I do not Ground the generator, as the L5:30 Plug has a ground and the wall plug on my powerhouse IS bonded & grounded to the main AC Circuit and this works just fine.

Of Note... I have been charging my battery bank via the L5:30 and also using a Car Battery Charger to charge one of my vehicles at the same time and that was plugged into one of the 120V/20A Plugs and no problems.
Click to expand...
80a Charge @24v is 1920 watts / 120 and I get 16 amps? I know my math is simplified but is it kinda right?
 
Rednecktek said:
Pour a little oil on the filter, wring it out so it's only slightly damp. You're good.


Whatever the manual says to use, be it 5-30 or straight 30 or 5-25, as long as it's the correct numbers the oil brand doesn't really matter. Once you have done the break-in and go to synthetic you're fine.


When in doubt use the 30a. Can't have too much power.


OK.


Makes sense.


Math sounds about right.



Wire it up for the 30a head and them make yourself a 30a-20a adapter for when you bring it home. If you're drawing up near the limit of the socket you're risking damaging the outlet.


Pass. Someone else will hopefully know the answer for this one.



Pass. The whole bonding neutral grounding issue is a can of worms I still haven't wrapped my head around completely, but if you're up to it you can always bury a grounding plate at the cabin where the generator will live and clip into it when you get there.
Click to expand...
I’m thinking I’ll use the 30a outlet and then adaptor for home.

not too worried about grounding yet. Just thought I’d throw it out there. My “system” will be portable for now, with the possibility of a permantly installation at some point
 
Steve_S said:
Try, 26V (battery charge voltage) X 80A = 2080W
120VAC X 30A = 3600W
uncorrected #'s.
Click to expand...
I never know what voltage to use in calculations (in addition to not knowing the calculation, lol).

is it 24, 26, or even 28? (Doesn’t 48 volt batteries charge up to 56 volts?)
 
Nan_wpg said:
So,what’s the actual math equation I should be using?
Click to expand...
Lets see, the equation should go something like...

26v charging voltage * 80a charging rate * 1.15 efficiency overhead = total wattage
Total wattage / 120v = amps at the outlet

So, 26v * 80a = 2080w charging
2080w * 1.15 = 2392w after efficiency losses
2392w / 120v = 19.9333 amps at the plug. That's pushing the maximum amperage the plug can take.

Go for the 30a plug to give yourself plenty of overhead to not cook the plug.
 
For a 24V Battery System, consider the highest charge (Bulk/Absorb) voltage @ 28V, for a 48V system consider 56V.

My Absorb/Bulk is set to 27.6V at 80A that is 2208W ÷120V = 120V/18.4A + inefficiencies & passthrough overhead.

Every Charging system will have it's own efficiency ratings. I can only relate what I observe with my gear which again is a Samlex EVO @ 96% Efficiency. Other products will have different efficiencies from 85% to 96% depending on Tier/Grade/Quality

Also of note: These Champions do put out an exact 120V/60Hz Pure Sine (very clean too) and stay VERY consistent, even under heaviest loads I have only seen it drop 1 Volt from a heavy surge demand and that only lasted for the start surge. Observed when powering 3HP Air Compressor.

For the Uninitiated, Samlex is Tier-1 High Quality product and the pricing reflects that, at present the EVO-4024 is around $2,500+ USD up to 3100 at some vendors.

This is the L5:30 plug I installed on my powerhouse:

Plug on the exterior wall to standard 12/2 AWG and AC Bonded ground. Plug goes to a Square-D QO2L70S 2-breaker box with 40A Breaker, then to Inverter/Charger with 12/2. This is all a short run, no more than 5' from plug, through breaker box to inverter/charger.

Hope it helps, Good Luck
 
Rednecktek said:
Lets see, the equation should go something like...

26v charging voltage * 80a charging rate * 1.15 efficiency overhead = total wattage
Total wattage / 120v = amps at the outlet

So, 26v * 80a = 2080w charging
2080w * 1.15 = 2392w after efficiency losses
2392w / 120v = 19.9333 amps at the plug. That's pushing the maximum amperage the plug can take.

Go for the 30a plug to give yourself plenty of overhead to not cook the plug.
Click to expand...
Efficiency is charger power factor?

i suppose I can wire an rv cable, plug, whatever you call it into,the,Victron. I’ll just take my generator home too for the winter.

im buying the stuff and I don’t want family using it in the winter at the cabin if they didn’t pay for it.
 
Steve_S said:
For a 24V Battery System, consider the highest charge (Bulk/Absorb) voltage @ 28V, for a 48V system consider 56V.

My Absorb/Bulk is set to 27.6V at 80A that is 2208W ÷120V = 120V/18.4A + inefficiencies & passthrough overhead.

Every Charging system will have it's own efficiency ratings. I can only relate what I observe with my gear which again is a Samlex EVO @ 96% Efficiency. Other products will have different efficiencies from 85% to 96% depending on Tier/Grade/Quality

Also of note: These Champions do put out an exact 120V/60Hz Pure Sine (very clean too) and stay VERY consistent, even under heaviest loads I have only seen it drop 1 Volt from a heavy surge demand and that only lasted for the start surge. Observed when powering 3HP Air Compressor.

For the Uninitiated, Samlex is Tier-1 High Quality product and the pricing reflects that, at present the EVO-4024 is around $2,500+ USD up to 3100 at some vendors.

This is the L5:30 plug I installed on my powerhouse:

Plug on the exterior wall to standard 12/2 AWG and AC Bonded ground. Plug goes to a Square-D QO2L70S 2-breaker box with 40A Breaker, then to Inverter/Charger with 12/2. This is all a short run, no more than 5' from plug, through breaker box to inverter/charger.

Hope it helps, Good Luck
Click to expand...

good price on the samlex:

www.donrowe.com

Samlex EVO-4024 4000W, 24V Pure Sine Inverter/Charger | DonRowe.com

The Samlex America EVO-4024, 4000 Watt, 24 Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger with 110 Amp Charger is a rugged inverter/charger designed for mobile and off-grid applications
www.donrowe.com

as for the connection I was going to wire a “plug” into the Victron and literally plug it into the champion.

but with your method I’d just buy an rv extention cord?
 
This what I want to do (picture from,YouTube video). Battery, inverter/charger on a hand cart. 20A power bar wired directly into Victron output , and extention cord with twistlock or rv plug on it wired into the Victron input.

8D9A96B2-AAC9-48B3-8447-9BA3CDF93C8D.jpeg
Wheel it home (or to the neighbors cabin) for winter.
 
Last edited:
Nan_wpg said:
So,what’s the actual math equation I should be using?
Click to expand...
Typical breakers (per NEC) are rated for 80% capacity at "continuous use". In my experience generator breakers won't run at 100% of capacity for very long.

Most home plugs are 15A.. If you're going to run 20A, make sure your plug and outlet are actually 20A.
 
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