Melted Victron 100/20

[Deleted member 91418]

Not sure if this would be classified as 'up in smoke', but we had an unfortunate event today with a Victron SCC.

My boss and I have been working on repairing warped terminals on a Victron 100/20 I had purchased back in March. Upon inspecting, we noticed the terminals would not hold wires down into place. Eventually we did get it powered up, but once solar was connected the battery voltage dropped to 1v. We had e-mailed the company about this, and they replied 'they would not honour a warranty because it had been sold by a non-Victron seller on Amazon'. I was out $135, no big deal.

The next few months, my boss (who loves Victron products and uses their equipment in our work RV) had been working on the controller, seeing what the problem was on it and why they weren't grabbing properly gauged wires. A few forum members recommended I use marine-grade, fine-strand wires, which I had replaced all of my cabling with. Unfortunately, still no improvement.

This afternoon, we had finally got the wires to fit securely inside the controller. We added an extra 25A fuse to my battery, aded it to the circuit, went over all the settings and connected a 50w panel to it. At first all had seemed well... and then my boss noticed a burning odour coming from inside my SUV. The terminal block on the 100/20 was melting.

We had pulled everything in a hurry and threw the controller on the pavement, where only a melted case had remained. Because my boss had been working with Victron products for years, we can't assume 'user error' as the reasoning behind the meltdown. What he did observe was the terminals which the 100/20 uses is different than what older models had used. If it wasn't for the fact he caught the burning odours, I would have lost my SUV; which is also my home.

For the last 4 (almost 5 years) I have been using a PWM controller re-branded by CanadaProof (images added at the bottom comparing the two). It uses a different kind of terminal mounting for PV and battery cables, mainly actual screws that are commonly replaceable if they strip out. I would like to know why SCC's do not come with this terminal type? I believe they can be safer to use, can offer a more better contact surface and would be more user-friendly. We are also surprised no one has complained about the terminals which Victron and so many other manufacturers use. Because I live out of my vehicle, a strong connection is needed. And because of this, I have been unable to upgrade to an MPPT controller.

All in all, my boss and I would like to stress out to those who are new to solar/getting into it, to take extra precautions while working with charge controllers. The Victron was faulty and would not serve as a safe method of charging for my application. He has reached out to the company regarding alternative terminal connection methods on future charge controllers; if he gets a response back I will definitely update here. Thanks.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Glad to see it was caught before any major damage was done.

I've been running a 100/20 with 740W of panels in a 48V stationary setup for months now with no issues; PV wire to the MPPT and marine wire to the DC bus.

Not trying to be a dick, this thread is kind of boring without the carnage photos.

 

[Deleted member 91418]

Lol... we have four of these 100/20s powering our motorhome office, I know what you mean as far as reliability goes. I believe these can be good devices, providing they aren't mounted in a high-vibration environment. Obviously a house or a motorhome is best; a compact SUV from the turn of the century, however, is a horrible idea. I'm real glad yours is working without issues though! I'll take a couple of pictures next time I see my boss.

 

[marionw]

I often don't know why some folks say you need to use fine stranded wire. I simply tin the wire end (fine or course) and have never had an issue.

 

[400bird]

You said it can't be user error but also said these were different terminal blocks than he's used to.
In the pic, it looks to me like the battery terminals are all the way tightened down on nothing.

Also, there's lots of counterfeit Victron gear out there.

So, there's two possibilities I can think of.

I think we'd all like to see pics

 

[Deleted member 91418]

My boss took it back with him. If you can wait until Friday, I can take photos the next time I see it.

Counterfit Victrons? Now that's different.

 

[seneysolar]

I often don't know why some folks say you need to use fine stranded wire. I simply tin the wire end (fine or course) and have never had an issue.

Its what Victron says in their manual. Honestly i think it makes sense for the high amperage ones but for 20A im not convinced.

Counterfit Victrons? Now that's different.

Yep, Look up "Fangpusun charge controller" they have copycat Victron and Outback

 

[D71]

Below is my Victron 150-30. Notice the connecters - clamps for the wires. They are indeed a bit different. I did have tough time clamping the tiny 16ga to test it. I always test stuff before tossing it back on shelf for future project. Returns go away after 30 days for most Amazon. Never shelf anything without testing it first. It might not work later and the return window will be closed.





42OhmsPA can you take picture of your terminals.? I agree no fun without burned up pictures. The connectors in 150-30 do appear to be more robust. Some suggest ferrules. If you put a squared ferrule in there the contact surface would be bad. Surface area about Like my tiny clamp test leads.

 

[42OhmsPA]

42OhmsPA can you take picture of your terminals.?

Thank you for asking that, I had a janky ass connection that I redid.
I would have used ferrules, if they would have fit.

 

[D71]

Thanks for pictures.

Mine is a 150-35 not a 150-30. I intend to use tinned copper 10ga pv for my battery yo mppt connections when go in with it on a permanent system. Been looking at single MP II 5000/48 or dual MP II 3000/48 I like ac wire connectors in 5000 better then 3000. I prefer clamp - screws over those ac lead spring tension retainers in 3000 model..that looks cheap…on an otherwise great inverter.

The way the 150-35 mppt clamps are made …. it is designed for round contact vs a squared off - crimp ferrule. I won’t be using ferrules with squares with my Victron mppt. You appear to have flats so square would work. The square crimp ferrules work great with my Bouge RV PWM. Matter of fact Bouge RV PWM came with ferrules to install on wires. The Bouge RV terminals clamp well on the squares and have 2 flat surfaces like your setup.

I use a small solar panel and Bouge rv pwm to keep my truck battery charged….. 12volt Battery maintainer. I rotate it around on 12volt battery for lawnmower too.


Victron recommends this fine strand type wire like your instruction state.
This is from victron website.


Victron took the time to lay out a good website with ton of info.

As explained earlier I dont like the square crimp ferrules unless the connector is made for it with flat clamp surfaces. There is a round crimpers for ferrules too. Watch out for cheap steel ferrules junk…Check with magnet. Below is picture of both round and square ferrules after crimp. I am not buying another crimper. This is victron too.


Lot of good info for new ppl here. Buss bar sizing and what not. Cable sizing. I do think Victron is big cable - size happy. They do that 3x surging. Bigger - Better safe then sorry. I like to pull bigger wire for circuits in my house. If you have ever welded with 120volt welder on small wire it is a pita. I’ve got 120vac 10ga rv 30 amp plug cable with adapter at end of rv cable dedicated for my favorite 120volt small welder and plasma.

4. DC wiring

www.victronenergy.com

I haven’t worked up nerve to see if my MPP3048 can run my 120vac welder. I don’t want to do a post on how I burned my house down.

Ferrule crimpers and ferrules are expensive. It is interesting Victron talks about ferrules. Btw think Victron needs to update their Mppt wire connectors - to heavier units like 150-35. They need change ac wire connectors on 3000 inverter to be like 5000 inverter Thanks for sharing.

 

[JoeHam]

Some suggest ferrules. If you put a squared ferrule in there the contact surface would be bad. Surface area about Like my tiny clamp test leads.

I use ferrules on my 100/20’s to prevent stray strands of wire from causing a short problem.

The ferrules are definitely not square after tightening down the Victron screws. They are crushed quite easily by the Victron to increase contact surface area while all of the fine strands are contained within the ferrule.

 

[wpns]

The ferrules are definitely not square after tightening down the Victron screws. They are crushed quite easily by the Victron to increase contact surface area while all of the fine strands are contained within the ferrule

I was hoping the clamp would distort the ferrule to make a good connection m, thanks for confirming.

 

[Q-Dog]

My 100/20 did seem to run hotter when I used solar wire instead of fine stranded wire. I never had any problems with it, but the wire ends have to be very straight and clean to fit 10AWG into the terminals. I bought the wire box for it but never installed it.

I overpaneled it with 800 watts at 24 volts for a while and it was fine. Now it runs 2 of the 300 watt Hyundai panels, so only slightly over-paneled, but no issues with it.

 

[KnobCountry]

Looks like we ran him off.

Pretty sure he didn't open the terminals fully and reverse clamped the wires.

The clamps are fully closed when purchased but look open. Reverse clamping would explain why he couldn't seem to get a good tight connection.


There is room for improvement in the victron equipment for sure but if you take your time time and learn how it works you won't melt anything like deletedmember has.

When I used ferrules /terminal ends I crimped carefully and rotated and recrimped until it was uniform, tight as hell and slid into the victron with good contact all around.

I had to cut and restart a couple of times to fix a bad crimp but it was worth the time.

This guy also seemed to make at least 3 different threads about this melted 100/20 like he was fishing for the answer he wanted.

 

[wpns]

Pretty sure he didn't open the terminals fully and reverse clamped the wires.

Those terminals are tricky, not a big fan of them but they can be made to work fine.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Looks like we ran him off.

Pretty sure he didn't open the terminals fully and reverse clamped the wires.

The clamps are fully closed when purchased but look open. Reverse clamping would explain why he couldn't seem to get a good tight connection.


There is room for improvement in the victron equipment for sure but if you take your time time and learn how it works you won't melt anything like deletedmember has.

When I used ferrules /terminal ends I crimped carefully and rotated and recrimped until it was uniform, tight as hell and slid into the victron with good contact all around.

I had to cut and restart a couple of times to fix a bad crimp but it was worth the time.

This guy also seemed to make at least 3 different threads about this melted 100/20 like he was fishing for the answer he wanted.

two words... thin skinned.

 

[Brett V]

Not trying to be a dick, this thread is kind of boring without the carnage photos.

I know...like watching a NASCAR race with no crashes!

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Ferrule crimpers and ferrules are expensive

Personal its not if it safe your house, boat or what u use for .

For the rest in marine power use and even in the safety regulations in my country for boats or house.
Moment you need a soft cable to connect on a clamp systeem you need to use a ferrule .
Reason its that soft wire cable can come lose from the connection box .
Special in moving systeem like a boat on Waves.

I have done my boat to the new EU CE certification
And its not funny to do full new wire systeem.
From 12volt dc to 230ac on wallpower from the port.
All new in a boat from 1985.
Som people call me insane to do this.
But i its my house so it have to be save .

 

[D71]

NEW Welding cable clamps come with copper sheet that gets wrapped around the fine strand used in welding - wire cables.

I’ve seen the welding cable clamps last just as long with the copper sheet wrapped around welding cable-wire as they lasted if no copper sheet was wrapped around the copper strand wire. Toss up.
You can copper sheet wrap the wire then put it in welder clamp or not. Just my experience. Hint CROSS SECTIONAL That is the wonderful thing about growing old besides not being as sharp as once was….DEPENDS next.




Like mentioned earlier I have the square ferrule crimpers and ferrules. I also threw away some ferrules made from steel…JUNK. They do not conform and EVEN rust. BEST CHECK YOUR FERRULES WITH MAGNET. There is also this thing called dissimilar metal it is a big thing in aviation. The 150-35 was wenched down on 10ga for panel input and wimpy temporary 16ga for output to battery. Running 800 watts of panels generated no additional heat. Heat rises so the mounting might be applicable. No other reason….pop the cover off and take a look. To make more reliable just heavy brick like heat sink on back no fans. This video basically shows why ppl don’t repair them. Basically they Victron don’t want them fixed….buy new one. Part of the green deal should be to make items repairable vs trash can dump fill. Potted electronics when it breaks is junk….bound. Internal fuses should be accessible. Basically the Victron mppt can’t be repaired so OP if needed to repair IT is S.O.L. ……
THE POSITIVE ASPECT ONCE INSTALLED if goes smoothly THESE THINGS ARE THERE FOR LIFE UNLESS DAMAGED BY USER.

This is why you fuse - circuit breaker them …. Either that or cut it apart. Yippie. Basically non serviceable so how is that green energy.

Pictures of 10ga pv where clamp from Victron had bare wire. A picture of where installed ferrule and crushed it. Victron does not mention using ferrules for connections. Victron does talk about ferrules on their website. Why not have it in the manuals for assemblying-install?

I like to read passionate post.

Because of the way the Victron 150-35 mppt wire clamps are made they are designed for round peg not square pegs. Bam bam. I squeezed it real good. Can you see the picture? It is by design. My 150-35 mppt is resting safety back in the Victron box. 10ga tin coated copper pv cable is multi-strand wire cable. STRAIN RELIEF IS CRITICAL for isolating cables.

Found 1 reported burned up on boat for reported 14 months in operation. Victron told owner that connections should be routinely checked. Appears the out seems to be side that always burns up.

42OhmsPA carnage…..



Video.

Again Victron told video maker to make it a routine of checking electrical connections.

Your electric meter leads from grid use to require 10 year retorque - inspections in USA. Don’t think they ever do it…especially now. Aluminum service wire is the devil. Lot of kitchen fires happened because of kitchen - range outlet runs being aluminum in 1970’s. Dissimilar metal with oxidation plus heat too.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

I do know that are is new hardware update on the victron 100/20 model .
Its have bigger Rips on it for cooling.
And its support now 48volt .
The package is new and tell now 48volt on it.
So this way you know its the new model.

routine of checking electrical connections.
On my epever model manuel its tell the same.
So it normal to control it speciale on moving car , boat and other things
Not that strange personal.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

i am with the above posts, I think someone inserted them incorrectly.

 

[Andrewr05]

Familiarity with something and a track record of "things just working" leads to complacency.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Familiarity with something and a track record of "things just working" leads to complacency.

Yes, seen it too many times on the local bases.

 

[D71]

…. Victron does not state in manual to check for tightness as a routine. Regardless of prior posted advice from Victron Rep. they need to change manual. What the manual does state is proper strain stress relief for the wires at the connections around page 1 of the victron manual.
Matter of fact page 39 of 65 in the 150-35 mppt manual states:
“6.6. Maintenance procedure: The solar charger does not need regular maintenance.“

Victron manual for 150-35 mppt provides a terminal torque of “IMPORTANT: Torque the battery and PV connections at 1.6Nm.”

Victron Manual Page 17 of 68 for the 100-20 mppt provides a torque of only: “IMPORTANT: Torque the battery, load and PV connections at 0.75Nm.”

There is a difference of build quality and torque capacity.

‘’Member is deleted” so….

He basically did nothing wrong. “ He sought help from someone that seemingly knew better and stated had more experience - his boss”.
The 100-20 he was referencing died from input of a stated “ 50watt panel”. ‘’Melted to pile of heap.”

He was basically suggesting and asking for product improvements as I read it.

It is also in both of the manualS that no matter what Victron will not honor the warranty for terminals burning up. Remember OP stated “only hooked up a 50watt panel was hooked up.”
In previous video posted that Victron MPPT owner stated his had worked 14 months no problem and burned up but was getting warranty..
hmmmm seem fair?
Of course not.







Most likely guess ….. given this statement …..it was wired up wrong by the boss.

“‘’’This afternoon, we had finally got the wires to fit securely inside the controller. We added an extra 25A fuse to my battery, aded it to the circuit, went over all the settings and connected a 50w panel to it. At first all had seemed well... and then my boss noticed a burning odour coming from inside my SUV. The terminal block on the 100/20 was melting.“‘’’’ OP

Interesting….
Someone stated “fake Victron.” So is this called a fake victron? Is Victron made in China. Fronius and Victron skipped into China a while back. Did they setup shop? Don’t get mad if you see knock offs. Consider it flattery. Yeah right……not. Theft….is more like it.
Different name.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Let op

Gebruik flexibele meerdradige koperen kabel voor de accu- en PV-aansluitingen.



De diameter van de individuele draden van de kabel zouden niet groter moeten zijn dan 0,4 mm (0,016 inch) of een oppervlak groter dan 0,125 mm² (AWG26) moeten hebben.



De maximale bedrijfstemperatuur is 90 °C (194 °F).



Een kabel van 25 mm² moet bijvoorbeeld minimaal 196 draden hebben (klasse 5 of hoger volgens VDE 0295, IEC 60228 en BS6360). Een AWG2 kabel zou op zijn minst 259/26 draden moeten hebben (259 draden van AWG26). Voorbeeld van geschikte kabel: klasse 5 “Tri-rated”-kabel (met drie goedkeuringen: Amerikaans (UL), Canadees (CSA) en Brits (BS)).



In het geval van dikkere draden zal het contactoppervlak te klein zijn en zal de hoge contactweerstand ernstige oververhitting veroorzaken en uiteindelijk resulteren in brand. Zie onderstaand figuur voor voorbeelden van welke kabel wel en niet gebruikt moet worden.



Oke this is in Dutch manuel.

Translated to engels will be .



Use flexible multi-wire copper cable for the battery and PV connections.



The diameter of the individual wires of the cable should not exceed 0.4 mm (0.016 inch) or have an area greater than 0.125 mm² (AWG26).



The maximum operating temperature is 90 °C (194 °F).



For example, a 25 mm² cable must have a minimum of 196 wires (class 5 or higher according to VDE 0295, IEC 60228 and BS6360). An AWG2 cable should have at least 259/26 wires (259 wires of AWG26). Example of suitable cable: Class 5 “Tri-rated” cable (with three approvals: American (UL), Canadian (CSA) and British (BS)).



In the case of thicker wires, the contact area will be too small and the high contact resistance will cause serious overheating and ultimately result in a fire. See the figure below for examples of which cable should and should not be used..





Oke Dutch again.



Visuele inspectie



Stap 1



Onderzoek de PV-lader op mogelijke tekenen van mechanische schade aan de behuizing of elektrische aansluitklemmen. Houd er rekening mee dit soort schade aan de zonnelader niet onder de garantie valt.



Stap 2



Inspecteer de elektrische aansluitklemmen van de PV-lader op tekenen van verbranding of smelten. Dit soort schade wordt vaak veroorzaakt door losse elektrische aansluitingen, het gebruik van kabels met harde kern of door het overschrijden van de maximale stroom van de MC4-connector. Houd er rekening mee dit soort schade aan de zonnelader niet onder de garantie valt. Raadpleeg hoofdstuk PV-Verbindingen verbrand of gesmolten voor meer informatie



Translation.



Visual inspection



Step 1



Examine the PV charger for possible signs of mechanical damage to the housing or electrical terminals. Please note that this type of damage to the solar charger is not covered by the warranty.



Step 2



Inspect the PV charger electrical terminals for signs of burning or melting. This type of damage is often caused by loose electrical connections, the use of hard core cables, or by exceeding the maximum current of the MC4 connector. Please note that this type of damage to the solar charger is not covered by the warranty. Refer to the c
hapter PV Connections Burned or Melted for more information



See picture about the wire .