Midnite Classic firmware update ideas wanted

[JJJJ]

Ok. There are a ton of Victron users out there and other systems as well.

There are a few Midnite Classic 150 users as well. As most know the firmware hasn't been updated for some time.

I sent an email to Midnite and Ryan replied. His response was "Can you advise what the Classic doesn’t do you would like to see added? Firmware is usually only released when new features are added or bugs fixed"

I did reply but have not heard anything since. So here is a chance for Midnite users to provide a wish list of features they would like to see added to the firmware. Including @SpongeboB Sinewave as a courtesy.

 

[JJJJ]

OK. Will start the list:

Expand Single Decimal Point accuracy to three digits which is consistent with most BMS systems now.

 

[Steve_S]

At least 2 Decimal Point accuracy for the WizBangJr & Classics. Hint better support for Lithium Chemistries.
Now that they finally dove into the LFP Battery Systems and systems (DIY & Other) that Support Lithium Based, they should understand this NOW.
Time to give up on Lead-isms! It IS the 21st Century after all.
I would have desired either a BlueTooth or better a WIFI connection to the Home Network but that is unlikely and now can be done by other means.

Classics are now Old Tech (last update 2018) and just a "product on the shelf".
PS on their forums a user "Classic Crazy" was testing new firmware and was reporting that some of those desired features were there but it just ended without a peep and nothind posted afterwards.

LASTLY ! If Attempting to use the Classic Software to check for Updates only results in ERRORS - hasn't worked for years.... Seems the address is invalid !

I asked them on June 22nd, 2022

THE QUESTION: It appears for Every Intent & Purpose these are being shoved to the Legacy Bin in favour of the new Goodies which are even more Costly (DIY Stuff excluded). Web-forum support and zippo for software & firmware.
Are they being Grand-fathered out or what ?
Just dumping New Old Stock till it's gone ?

and I got a pile of Smooshy Turds as a response... Defensive & Reactive hostility followed. A SIMPLE answer of Yes or No about aging out the product line and IF they would continue to support the vast amount of product out there, is ALL that was needed...

As a long time Midnite User I have been recommending Victron ever since. While all the Midnite Stuff I have is Marvelous Top Notch gear, I am stuck with that big outlay and it works.

 

[Brucey]

OK. Will start the list:

Expand Single Decimal Point accuracy to three digits which is consistent with most BMS systems now.

I thought this would be an issue with my Rosie, compared to my Victron gear, however I realized that for a 48V system the difference between a single decimal place and two or three really didn't impact anything. i.e if I'm targeting 55.2V for 3.45V per cell, I don't need another decimal point. Because 55.3V gives me 3.456V. What does say 55.25V give me?

Maybe I'm missing something. I understand we want three decimal places for cell voltage balancing, BMS config etc, but ultimately for charging we are dealing with pack level voltages where the decimal point really doesn't achieve much? Maybe more of an issue with 12 and 24V configs where a second decimal place can have more of an effect?

Three decimal places for 3.456V etc, yes

Three decimal places for eg 55.253V? I don't see it.

 

[JJJJ]

Consider this illustration: 26.1V will permit 26.100 to 26.199. With lead acid perhaps not a big deal. However while performing resistance testing on my cells I was amazed at how much power could be hidden in those decimals, especially during certain parts of the charge/discharge curve.

 

[Brucey]

Consider this illustration: 26.1V will permit 26.100 to 26.199. With lead acid perhaps not a big deal. However while performing resistance testing on my cells I was amazed at how much power could be hidden in those decimals, especially during certain parts of the charge/discharge curve.

Yes there's definitely quite a bit of capacity potential in the decimal places, however we are using shunts to count coulombs specifically because voltage is a poor indication of state of charge for LFP?

If it was put to the vote I'd say sure let's add another decimal place or two for the 12 and 24V configs where the cell level impact is more pronounced, but for now I'm ok with single digits for my 48V nominal config.

 

[Steve_S]

Yes there's definitely quite a bit of capacity potential in the decimal places, however we are using shunts to count coulombs specifically because voltage is a poor indication of state of charge for LFP?

Coloumb Counting "greatly" depends on the accuracy (fine resolution) of the device used AND regardless of device quality & programming, there are losses in both directions. YES, that can be resolved but not for affordable retail devices. If you cannot count coulombs below 1A or even 0.5A differential the losses add in.

Also realize that is sticking to the Working Voltage range for LFP which is 3.000-3.400 Volts per cell, the Millivolts DO COUNT ! as does the level of amperage taken to determine true SOC. IE if you hit 3.450Vpc and instantly stop input that will drop to 3.375 fast, but if you allow the cells to hit that Voltage and allow the Amps taken to drop to 5% of rated capacity, the cells will be full (saturated) and not just a top charge.

Using Working Voltage:
3.000=0%, 3.100=25%, 3.200=50% (Nominal for a reason!), 3.300=75% & 3.400=100%
Use Settable 0% & 100% are required because different applications. I myself use 2.800-3.475vpc.

BTW: Leadism hangovers truly SUCK ! You can't do an Acid Gravity test with Lithium obviously. THAT is why Lead-Heads insist you can't get accurate SOC from Li Batteries. HOG WASH NONSENSE... shove it into the outhouse with the other Wives Tales. Like that idiotic one about using the Allowable Range from 2.500-3.650 and that all will be well twaddle. Enough folks have reported their issues and refuse to connect the dots even when pointed out with details.

BTW: When talking at CELL LEVEL and 0.100 Volts it's tiny but X16 Cells and well collectively it's NOT 0.100V it's 1.6V... but nevah mind.

 

[seneysolar]

Is this type of change something that can be done with firmware? I suspect the unit is simply not capable otherwise they would have done it by now.

Perhaps a new mppt is in the works at Midnite now that they stepped into the lithium battery market?

Im fine with classics remaining classics. They are still reliable and workable.

I asked them on June 22nd, 2022

and I got a pile of Smooshy Turds as a response... Defensive & Reactive hostility followed. A SIMPLE answer of Yes or No about aging out the product line and IF they would continue to support the vast amount of product out there, is ALL that was needed...

What did they say?

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I have 5 x Midnite Classic 150s... the oldest 2 are in year 7 and they work the same as when new, including the wiz bang jr shunt on one of them. More features than I care about. 100,302kwh of PV to date. Recently added 2 more and it's nice to not have to update the previous 3 to have all 5 work the same

 

[v_green57]

Is this type of change something that can be done with firmware? I suspect the unit is simply not capable otherwise they would have done it by now.

Perhaps a new mppt is in the works at Midnite now that they stepped into the lithium battery market?

Im fine with classics remaining classics. They are still reliable and workable.

What did they say?

This:

"I suspect the unit is simply not capable otherwise they would have done it by now."

is likely true. The A/D converters can't resolve to any larger degree. Can't be fixed with software.

 

[newbostonconst]

I have 4....200amp x 3 and a 250amp SCC
My only wish is that the diversion load was easier to program.

 

[JJJJ]

There was a lot of discussion about an update during the Summer of 2018, and then radio silence. I can appreciate that there are a lot of satisfied customers. I personally like the ground and arc fault features and the fact that it is capable of handling higher amp inputs for those whose approach may utilize more of a parallel orientation (granted proper wiring is in place). There was discussion someplace (can't find the source now) about a fix for the single decimal limitation but it never surfaced that I can see.

The latest firmware is about 6 years old. It is hard to believe they haven't found something that can be improved in that time. Even the computer interface is getting aged. Older videos promised customizable features for users and regular firmware updates.

The challenge is that other vendors, including Victron are continuing to add new improved features on a regular basis. Midnite was the gold standard for a long time and is still a robust model (just pick one up LOL), however in today's rapidly changing market it makes sense to at least consider an annual update, even if it changes minor features.

 

[HarryN]

The biggest thing that I wished for was a WiFi access to the data.

Greater ability to monitor charging from multiple sources, such as AC charging.

But of course what can't be fixed in software - is the difficult wiring path to get to the battery connection points and lack of ring lugs on the connection points.