Minimal parts for Victron Multiplus install

InMyImage

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Hey, so my head is a bit dizzy from trying to figure thus out right now and have had some unexpected expenses pop up so I need to quickly figure out the absolute minimum devices I need to get my Multiplus II 3000/2x120 inverter setup and running with my Lishen battery packs that each have separate BMS’s. Note that this is the model designed for 50amp RV’s so I don’t need any special transfer switches or other gizmos specifically to get it to work in my RV, I just need to get the Inverter configured and able to monitor the system including at least approximate battery SOC.

Other than the obvious cutoff switches, fuses, wiring, etc, I think I can get away with just the bluetooth dongle and a shunt, but not sure if I need the Victron Smart Shunt since I’ll have access to system data using bluetooth via the dongle.

I am not interested in any additional control or monitoring panels inside the RV. I’ve had an inverter setup that came with the RV for maintaining power to our residential fridge and barely ever look at the panel. However, if anyone knows if I can use my existing Xantrex Freedom X panel with the Victron Multiplus, I’d appreciate knowing.

Anything else anyone thinks I need let me know and please include info on what and why it’s needed.

Thanks
 

sunshine_eggo

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Hey, so my head is a bit dizzy from trying to figure thus out right now and have had some unexpected expenses pop up so I need to quickly figure out the absolute minimum devices I need to get my Multiplus II 3000/2x120 inverter setup and running with my Lishen battery packs that each have separate BMS’s. Note that this is the model designed for 50amp RV’s so I don’t need any special transfer switches or other gizmos specifically to get it to work in my RV, I just need to get the Inverter configured

For full functionality MK3 to USB cable, Windows PC and VEConfig3.

from: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/vebus_smart_dongle_manual

"The VE.Bus Smart Dongle does not provide full programming functionality"

from: https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/VE.Bus_Configuration_Guide/en/limitations.html

3.1. VictronConnect vs VEConfigure & VEFlash​

VictronConnect is replacing VEConfigure and VEFlash. Its easier to use and works on more devices, not only on Windows.

The following features are not yet supported in VictronConnect. If you require this advanced functionality, you will still need to use VEConfigure.

  • Assistants (eg AC PV, ESS)
  • Virtual Switch, though some of the most commonly used Virtual Switch functionality is available via the new AC input control feature.
  • Changing the Grid Code
  • Lithium Battery Wizard (for lithium battery types that require installation of an Assistant eg VE.Bus BMS)
  • External Current Sensor - This is for use with the Multiplus-II external current sensor
You likely don't need any of the "advanced functionality" items listed. VE.Bus smart dongle is likely sufficient

and able to monitor the system including at least approximate battery SOC.

VE.Bus smart dongle + VictronConnect (VC)

The Inverter has a built-in battery monitor that must be enabled. This is only useful if you ONLY charge with AC via the inverter/charger. If you charge with any other source, the inverter can't see it, and the battery monitor will be inaccurate.

I do not know how visible or useful this is in VictronConnect. SoC does appear to be visible in the demo library.

If you're concerned about low temp charging protection, this wasn't added until something like firmware 489 in 10/2021. If your BMS takes care of that, no worries.

Note that the VE.Bus smart dongle is not supported by VE.Smart networking.

Other than the obvious cutoff switches, fuses, wiring, etc, I think I can get away with just the bluetooth dongle and a shunt, but not sure if I need the Victron Smart Shunt since I’ll have access to system data using bluetooth via the dongle.

If you charge from anything besides the inverter, you need a shunt. the smartshunt is the best choice if you want accurate Voltage and SoC you can monitor with VC.

I am not interested in any additional control or monitoring panels inside the RV. I’ve had an inverter setup that came with the RV for maintaining power to our residential fridge and barely ever look at the panel. However, if anyone knows if I can use my existing Xantrex Freedom X panel with the Victron Multiplus, I’d appreciate knowing.

Nope.
 

rmaddy

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Note that the VE.Bus smart dongle is not supported by VE.Smart networking.
I have the VE.Bus smart dongle connected to my MultiPlus 24/2000 and my MultiPlus is setup to communicate with my SmartSolar 150/45 and BMV-712 all via VE.Smart networking.

Perhaps it wasn't supported in the past but as of a year ago it works just fine.

Here's a screenshot from VictronConnect on my phone. This is the VE.Smart networking screen from the settings of my MultiPlus.

IMG_3692.jpg
 

sunshine_eggo

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Oof... available for over a year. Guess one needs to read all the damn changelogs... :p


v5.36 (Released officially)​

2021-02-02
Changes:
General:
  • Added continuous BLE scan: instead of only scanning once when opening VictronConnect, and thereafter only when the scan button was pressed, it will now keep scanning as long as the Device list page is open. Products will appear in the list as soon as they are in range. A note on power consumption and this change: Continuous scanning has no impact on the power consumption of the Victron product. For phones, tablets and laptops, it will of course will have an impact on battery consumption, but that will be rather minimal if even measurable at all. The continuous scan is only active when the app is in the foreground and on the devices list page. When the app is sent to the background or connected to a product, the scanning stops. The refresh buttons remains, pushing it will make VictronConnect scan for VE.Direct devices, refresh the VRM installations list, and restart the Bluetooth scanning just in case it is needed.
  • Added Bluetooth signal strength indicator to the Device list page.
  • Increase Bluetooth connection timeout. Prevents the retry mechanism to be triggered too early in some old devices.
  • Fix custom name length limit when pasting non-ASCII texts
  • Show badge on top of the settings icon when a firmware update is available
  • iOS: Fix Google Drive and probably other apps doesn't show the option to open firmware files with VictronConnect
  • Fix crash reported when closing VictronConnect on macOS Big Sur and iOS 14
  • Fix crashes on iOS when bringing back the app from background
  • Added the Lynx Smart BMS to the demo list (note that this product is not available for sale yet)
(Deleted all other products)

VE.Bus Smart Dongle:
  • Add firmware v1.08 update (mandatory installation upon connection):
    • Changing the AC input current limit is now possible for systems that have a VE.Bus BMS. Requires VE.Bus firmware 415 or newer on the inverter/charger. The other limitation, switching between On/Off and Charger-only is unfortunately still not possible for systems that have a VE.Bus BMS.
    • Add ignore AC input status
    • Add default PIN code detection
    • Add detection of wrong phase rotation on AC in
    • Add support for back feed relay switchover status readout
    • Fixed AC input current limit temporarily reports wrong value during AC input switch over
    • Bluetooth related changes:
      • Added VE.Smart networking functionality (sharing battery voltage and temperature sense with for example an Solar Charger)
      • Report when product is connectable or not
      • Improved clearing bond info on pincode change
      • Improved disconnection behaviour
 

InMyImage

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The VictronConnect iOS app demo mode doesn’t have a “Multiplus II 3000/2x120” but has a “Multiplus 3000/120-2x50” which seems to have similar features (but definitely different) and does have the functionality for setting it up for lithium batteries, configuring the charge profile and setting the power assist which appears to be the compatibility limitation stated for the smart dongle for configuring the inverter and is what makes me question whether the MK3 is really necessary anymore?
I have the VE.Bus smart dongle connected to my MultiPlus 24/2000 and my MultiPlus is setup to communicate with my SmartSolar 150/45 and BMV-712 all via VE.Smart networking.

Perhaps it wasn't supported in the past but as of a year ago it works just fine.

Here's a screenshot from VictronConnect on my phone. This is the VE.Smart networking screen from the settings of my MultiPlus.

View attachment 96066
Do you have lithium batteries? If so did it let you configure the Multiplus for them?
 

InMyImage

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Inverters purchased through CurrentConnected are pre-programmed per order so you can save the cost of the MK3-usb dongle.
Nice to know for others but I’ve actually had mine for almost a year now (second batch flown into the states) but couldn’t install it because a wheel on my 5th wheel trailer decided to go on its own adventure and the thing was in the shop for over six months thanks to supply chain issues. Actually still don’t have a coupon parts but took it back and will deal with them later.
 

InMyImage

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Joined
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Messages
146
Oof... available for over a year. Guess one needs to read all the damn changelogs... :p


v5.36 (Released officially)​

2021-02-02
Changes:
General:
  • Added continuous BLE scan: instead of only scanning once when opening VictronConnect, and thereafter only when the scan button was pressed, it will now keep scanning as long as the Device list page is open. Products will appear in the list as soon as they are in range. A note on power consumption and this change: Continuous scanning has no impact on the power consumption of the Victron product. For phones, tablets and laptops, it will of course will have an impact on battery consumption, but that will be rather minimal if even measurable at all. The continuous scan is only active when the app is in the foreground and on the devices list page. When the app is sent to the background or connected to a product, the scanning stops. The refresh buttons remains, pushing it will make VictronConnect scan for VE.Direct devices, refresh the VRM installations list, and restart the Bluetooth scanning just in case it is needed.
  • Added Bluetooth signal strength indicator to the Device list page.
  • Increase Bluetooth connection timeout. Prevents the retry mechanism to be triggered too early in some old devices.
  • Fix custom name length limit when pasting non-ASCII texts
  • Show badge on top of the settings icon when a firmware update is available
  • iOS: Fix Google Drive and probably other apps doesn't show the option to open firmware files with VictronConnect
  • Fix crash reported when closing VictronConnect on macOS Big Sur and iOS 14
  • Fix crashes on iOS when bringing back the app from background
  • Added the Lynx Smart BMS to the demo list (note that this product is not available for sale yet)
(Deleted all other products)

VE.Bus Smart Dongle:
  • Add firmware v1.08 update(mandatory installation upon connection):
    • Changing the AC input current limit is now possible for systems that have a VE.Bus BMS. Requires VE.Bus firmware 415 or newer on the inverter/charger. The other limitation, switching between On/Off and Charger-only is unfortunately still not possible for systems that have a VE.Bus BMS.
    • Add ignore AC input status
    • Add default PIN code detection
    • Add detection of wrong phase rotation on AC in
    • Add support for back feed relay switchover status readout
    • Fixed AC input current limit temporarily reports wrong value during AC input switch over
    • Bluetooth related changes:
      • Added VE.Smart networking functionality (sharing battery voltage and temperature sense with for example an Solar Charger)
      • Report when product is connectable or not
      • Improved clearing bond info on pincode change
      • Improved disconnection behaviour
Thanks for the link, I searched through it and didn’t see any functionality yet for changing the default battery configuration to lithium.

I think I might just buy the MK3 and if I don’t end up needing it sending it back. Having Amazon Prime makes it easy.
 

sunshine_eggo

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The VictronConnect iOS app demo mode doesn’t have a “Multiplus II 3000/2x120” but has a “Multiplus 3000/120-2x50” which seems to have similar features (but definitely different) and does have the functionality for setting it up for lithium batteries, configuring the charge profile and setting the power assist which appears to be the compatibility limitation stated for the smart dongle for configuring the inverter and is what makes me question whether the MK3 is really necessary anymore?

All VE.Bus inverters share a very common core set of features and configurations.


"Assistants" are not "power assist"

I don't think you need an MK3 unless you want to explore virtual switch or assistants. These are the tools you use to do custom things like ignoring the AC input based on certain criteria. You may find you want to customize to the point that an MK3 is necessary, but to get a basic system up and running, I doubt it.

Do you have lithium batteries? If so did it let you configure the Multiplus for them?

Lithium is a flag option that disables temp compensation, disables equalization, forces fixed absorption algorithm and enables the low-temp charge cut off feature. You can set whatever voltages you like.

Thanks for the link, I searched through it and didn’t see any functionality yet for changing the default battery configuration to lithium.

It's under the charger section.

I think I might just buy the MK3 and if I don’t end up needing it sending it back. Having Amazon Prime makes it easy.

Can't hurt. I have one laying around that I've never used because I can do remote VEConfig programming with VRM. However, I like knowing it's there if I ever need it!
 

InMyImage

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Messages
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Sorry for the delay because I appreciate your timely responses, apparently I didn’t hit post reply but will include now that Amazon has completely f’ed up delivery of my items. Dongle and wire connectors were supposed to be here by 11am this morning got delayed to “by 10pm” now received notice that they won’t be delivered until tomorrow or Tuesday even though they are literally 10 miles from my daughter’s apartment and were shipped from a warehouse that is maybe 30 miles away.

Wire was supposed to be here sometime today and is now theoretically arriving tomorrow.

Oddly, because you indicated that the MK3 shouldn’t be necessary to get the inverter up and running and configured to us my LifePO4 batteries and be able to limit the AC input current I decided to use the money to get the SmartShunt because even though there won’t be any additional charge sources, I realized that there are 12v items that bypass the panel and converter (which I will disable if possible anyway) and thus the inverter. Most of them are very small drains but when moving the trailer putting the landing gear down is a huge drain and pulling them up is probably significant but not as much as putting them down. So… I decided that the SmartShunt was worth the investment.

Sorry, didn’t address the oddly part… the SmartShunt was supposed to arrive tomorrow and of course, it’s the least important part for installing everything give. the insignificant effort to add it after the fact, and it arrived this morning.

Amazon has been getting progressively worse, at least the distribution enter near my daughter’s place has. And of course I have a relatively small window to install everything because of weather from Wednesday till the end of the week and then we are moving away from her place so going without power for a day is going to be much harder to coordinate with the family since they can’t just stay at our daughter’s.

Anyway, here is my significantly shorter original response:

"Assistants" are not "power assist"
Just to be clear, I was referring to the feature for limiting AC input amps, like when parked in a friends driveway and using a 15amp circuit. My understanding is that this feature is in Victron Connect for iOS and available via the Smart Dongle and does appear to work in the demo, although I really wish they would have added the 2x120 to the demo library.
 
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