diy solar

diy solar

MPP Solar LV2424 kicks butt!!!

Re: I recently lost the ability to back feed when the utility installed a smart meter. I figured the my house for the most part was using more then the 800+ watts my PV was providing, but they called me on it, and I was feeding the grid when my load was low ....
Yo Scott, I am wonder which utility company you have, and if or what the consequences were when ... they called you on feeding back to grid (if I understand your info. correctly) ... I would think if you feedback to grid where I live with PG&E in Northern California, that might produce a hassle like new building dept permitt requirements, and UL approved Grid Tie Equipment (but do not really know).
 
We wish it was done in software, but software costs more to develop, test, install, repair than hardware. Only production cost per unit is lower.

RE: Get a 120/240V transformer and converter output of your generator to split-phase.
Easy words. I think it would likely cost too much to get a dependable option. If I ever saw a reasonably priced option ( ... have search/ and not found one. Do you have any web links?) ... I would consider reconfiguring my three LV2424s currently configured for 240vac split phase (w up to 40 amp ability on one leg/ 20 amp ability on other leg of my sub panel) .. INTO: three 120vac single phase LV2424 parallel configured for up to 60 amps output that I would put on both legs of my isolated from the grid sub panel. I could then use a 120/240V transformer /converter's output (needs to be USA 240 vac "split phase", and NOT European 220 vac) / to power up my 200 + yards of 14 AWG line to my 1/2 hp well pump that uses only 5 amps on each 240 vac hot wire. I have searched for such a transformer, and Not Yet Found an attractive option with reviews for dependability for that idea. If you have a web link to one you think worth looking at, ... please share the info.
 
You might try looking for a 240x120 . If the only load is the pump at 240 volt and 5 amps you don't need a transformer with a tapped winding.
 
Easy words. I think it would likely cost too much to get a dependable option. If I ever saw a reasonably priced option ( ... have search/ and not found one. Do you have any web links?) ... I would consider reconfiguring my three LV2424s currently configured for 240vac split phase (w up to 40 amp ability on one leg/ 20 amp ability on other leg of my sub panel) .. INTO: three 120vac single phase LV2424 parallel configured for up to 60 amps output that I would put on both legs of my isolated from the grid sub panel. I could then use a 120/240V transformer /converter's output (needs to be USA 240 vac "split phase", and NOT European 220 vac) / to power up my 200 + yards of 14 AWG line to my 1/2 hp well pump that uses only 5 amps on each 240 vac hot wire. I have searched for such a transformer, and Not Yet Found an attractive option with reviews for dependability for that idea. If you have a web link to one you think worth looking at, ... please share the info.

This one has two, 120V windings and is rated 1kVA. So it should be able to take 2kVA from a 120V generator and deliver as 120/240VAC at 2 kVA to the stack of inverters. Unless it is limited by winding ampacity to half that current? "Max amps 31.5" so it's got to be at least 15A per winding, and kVA limit is magnetics. Maybe not as many watts as you want, in which case either live with it or look for larger. I got myself a 9000VA toroid for the same money.


About $300 bucks delivered. (Like I said, cheaper than having someone write software.)
 
This one has two, 120V windings and is rated 1kVA. So it should be able to take 2kVA from a 120V generator and deliver as 120/240VAC at 2 kVA to the stack of inverters. Unless it is limited by winding ampacity to half that current? "Max amps 31.5" so it's got to be at least 15A per winding, and kVA limit is magnetics. Maybe not as many watts as you want, in which case either live with it or look for larger. I got myself a 9000VA toroid for the same money.


About $300 bucks delivered. (Like I said, cheaper than having someone write software.)
RE: cheaper than having someone write software.)

What ??? One Point of my Posts re the Inconvenient Work Around Idea I recently shared IS: I think MPP MIGHT WANT TO UPDATE THEIR FIRMWARE ... to make their product even Better ! That firmware update costs would be on their dime, and may not be worth the effort to them (not my arena of decision options). If that ever happens, I would have to research how to then perform a firmware update to my LV2424s. I am not counting on this to happen.

While I like the MPP LV2424 product and its' many configuration options, I personally would like to see a Firmware Update that includes making the LV2424 more flexible (if this is possible) to take 120vac Input to just one side (just one leg of the 120vac split phase INPUT) when two or more LV2424s are set up for 240vac split phase, ... for a battery charge cycle from a 120vac source !!! .

I also prefer my Back Up Work Around idea over spending $300. I see my Back Up Work Around Idea as good to know about, plus as kind of an ok option for covering the possibility of needing a battery charge from a 120vac source when grid power is lost or not available on a cycle of cloudy days (while running an Isolated Island style configuration of 2 x (or more) MPP LV2424s set up for 240v split phase output. Charging the battery bank from 120vac is absolutely an easy option when one or more LV2424s are configured for 120ac output!

Your post did get me looking for a spec sheet for the GE Buck Boost Electric Transformer 120/240(i), ...to answer my questions about its' specific output options. I did not find what I was looking for; thus currently wondering if that Boost Transformer may be just for a single phase boost from 120vac TO ... one or two circuits of 240vac "single phase" ??? , ... and likely not be for 120vac single conversion to 240vac USA style "split phase" . Might be wrong/ Still Not sure. Maybe you can help me (& us who are looking at this post) get clearer on that specific?

While I am curious about what is on the market for converting 120vac single phase to a USA standards 240vac "split phase; ... I think my work around / back up idea for a battery charge cycle from 120vac source on my 3x LV2424 set up is good enough for for me, for now .

... Learning More All The Time :+)
 
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What ??? One Point of my Posts re the Inconvenient Work Around Idea I recently shared IS: I think MPP MIGHT WANT TO UPDATE THEIR FIRMWARE ... to make their product even Better ! That firmware update costs would be on their dime, and may not be worth the effort to them (not my arena of decision options). If that ever happens, I would have to research how to then perform a firmware update to my LV2424s. I am not counting on this to happen.

While I like the MPP LV2424 product and its' many configuration options, I personally would like to see a Firmware Update that includes making the LV2424 more flexible (if this is possible) to take 120vac Input to just one side (just one leg of the 120vac split phase INPUT) when two or more LV2424s are set up for 240vac split phase, ... for a battery charge cycle from a 120vac source !!! .

I also prefer my Back Up Work Around idea over spending $300. I see my Back Up Work Around Idea as good to know about, plus as kind of an ok option for covering the possibility of needing a battery charge from a 120vac source when grid power is lost or not available on a cycle of cloudy days (while running an Isolated Island style configuration of 2 x (or more) MPP LV2424s set up for 240v split phase output. Charging the battery bank from 120vac is absolutely an easy option when one or more LV2424s are configured for 120ac output!

Your post did get me looking for a spec sheet for the GE Buck Boost Electric Transformer 120/240(i), ...to answer my questions about its' specific output options. I did not find what I was looking for; thus currently wondering if that Boost Transformer may be just for a single phase boost from 120vac TO ... one or two circuits of 240vac "single phase" ??? , ... and likely not be for 120vac single conversion to 240vac USA style "split phase" . Might be wrong/ Still Not sure. Maybe you can help me (& us who are looking at this post) get clearer on that specific?

While I am curious about what is on the market for converting 120vac single phase to a USA standards 240vac "split phase; ... I think my work around / back up idea for a battery charge cycle from 120vac source on my 3x LV2424 set up is good enough for for me, for now .

... Learning More All The Time :+)

I make a point of ribbing software guys. I only write software to design or test hardware.

That particular Buck Boost transformer has two, 120V and two, 16V windings, and can transfer 1 kVA magnetically. The windings are typically connected in some series/parallel configuration to correct for sagging line voltage, or to run a 240V appliance off 208V. The magnetics only have to carry the portion of wattage represented by the boosted voltage, so a 10 kVA load might be run with a 1 kVA buck-boost transformer.

In your case, generating 240V split phase from 120V single means coupling half the power magnetically, so you could only get 2 kVA out.

Outback makes, and SMA recommended, a small fan-cooled transformer rated 3 kVA to connect smaller 240V Sunny Boy to their 120V Sunny Island. The product line was for Europe's 220V systems first, and they didn't modify it for split phase in the US. They also have or had a transfer switch and autotransformer (120/240V buck-boost configuration) as a product.

On the bright side, when I set up two Sunny Island as split phase, I can plug one in to a 120V outlet and I get 120/240V split phase out of Sunny Island. The one that sees the grid passes it through and keep the battery charged, while the other takes from the battery.

Yea, it ought to be handled in software. Might happen after hell freezes over.
 
Yo Scott, I am wonder which utility company you have, and if or what the consequences were when ... they called you on feeding back to grid (if I understand your info. correctly) ... I would think if you feedback to grid where I live with PG&E in Northern California, that might produce a hassle like new building dept permitt requirements, and UL approved Grid Tie Equipment (but do not really know).
Avista here in WA installed a smart meter, then replaced it thinking it was defective. When they asked if I had anything feeding the grid, I said I would check my batter backup system (white lie). I turned off hybrid mode and went to off grid. Avista came by a few days later and dropped a note things were now good. I now turn it on occasionally when running the dryer or other large loads, but have set up the Pip in this thread’s original theme. When the Pip dies, I think the Sun limiting inverters might be the next thing I try. Maybe some proper affordable UL gear might be available by then?
 
Avista here in WA installed a smart meter, then replaced it thinking it was defective. When they asked if I had anything feeding the grid, I said I would check my batter backup system (white lie). I turned off hybrid mode and went to off grid. Avista came by a few days later and dropped a note things were now good. I now turn it on occasionally when running the dryer or other large loads, but have set up the Pip in this thread’s original theme. When the Pip dies, I think the Sun limiting inverters might be the next thing I try. Maybe some proper affordable UL gear might be available by then?

If you get a permit and install a small grid-tie PV system with an inverter compliant to rules (maybe your present one, maybe something else), then you could get permission for net metering. After that you could probably go back to your original hybrid configuration.

Possible downside is if your utility rate schedule gets changed to something less favorable (like triple the electricity cost in late afternoon.)

Possible upside is you can store all your surplus PV generation as accounting with your utility bill, much more cost effective than batteries. Save the batteries for use during power failures. Depending on battery chemistry and depth of discharge, cycling it frequently could wear it out in a couple years, much shorter than its standby life. Other batteries are good for 10+ years of deep discharge every night.
 
Outback makes, and SMA recommended, a small fan-cooled transformer rated 3 kVA
Thank for info. inspiring me to research 120ac to 240vac split phase converstion transformers a little more. I noticed Outback and SMA transformer options that CAN really covert 120vac single phase to 240vac USA spec split phase in the $600 + category at quick glance. Seems hard for to find specifics on specs including their efficiency factor for that conversion (not so easy to find specs or prices). My initial research for a 120vac to 240vac split phase / combined with my DIY orientation to get the most bang for my dollars had me looking at Amazon's and eBay's much lower cost Transformers from and/or for Europe (and other country's single phase standards); transformers that only setup to single phase 208v or 220v or 240vac. That was initially kind of confusing for me. Those sellers of such lesser options are starting to clarify that their products are not for USA's 240ac split phase; and one might have to look in their questions sections to answer that question). I still wonder if there are any lower cost transformers in the $100 - $200 arena that could dependably convert 120vac to 240vac split phase that could maybe handle 1200 - 2000 watts or more (with some review reference to gauge their dependability)? I also wonder if Alibaba has any such low cost options (w reviews) ? If anyone knows of such a lower cost transformer, Please share the info. and any web link(s). ... Learning More All the Time :+)
 
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What ??? One Point of my Posts re the Inconvenient Work Around Idea I recently shared IS: I think MPP MIGHT WANT TO UPDATE THEIR FIRMWARE ... to make their product even Better ! That firmware update costs would be on their dime, and may not be worth the effort to them (not my arena of decision options). If that ever happens, I would have to research how to then perform a firmware update to my LV2424s. I am not counting on this to happen.

While I like the MPP LV2424 product and its' many configuration options, I personally would like to see a Firmware Update that includes making the LV2424 more flexible (if this is possible) to take 120vac Input to just one side (just one leg of the 120vac split phase INPUT) when two or more LV2424s are set up for 240vac split phase, ... for a battery charge cycle from a 120vac source !!! .

I also prefer my Back Up Work Around idea over spending $300. I see my Back Up Work Around Idea as good to know about, plus as kind of an ok option for covering the possibility of needing a battery charge from a 120vac source when grid power is lost or not available on a cycle of cloudy days (while running an Isolated Island style configuration of 2 x (or more) MPP LV2424s set up for 240v split phase output. Charging the battery bank from 120vac is absolutely an easy option when one or more LV2424s are configured for 120ac output!

Your post did get me looking for a spec sheet for the GE Buck Boost Electric Transformer 120/240(i), ...to answer my questions about its' specific output options. I did not find what I was looking for; thus currently wondering if that Boost Transformer may be just for a single phase boost from 120vac TO ... one or two circuits of 240vac "single phase" ??? , ... and likely not be for 120vac single conversion to 240vac USA style "split phase" . Might be wrong/ Still Not sure. Maybe you can help me (& us who are looking at this post) get clearer on that specific?

While I am curious about what is on the market for converting 120vac single phase to a USA standards 240vac "split phase; ... I think my work around / back up idea for a battery charge cycle from 120vac source on my 3x LV2424 set up is good enough for for me, for now .

... Learning More All The Time :+)

grr, completely didnt realize this issue. I rarely need 240 anyways, (welder) and honestly that is best served with a regular genny anyhow.
 
Here are a couple transformer choices for you:
110V in, 220V out 5000 VA (isolated, so you would tie hots together)


2x 120V, 1000 VA (tie one wire common as auto-transformer, get 2000 VA at 240V)


2x 120V, 3000 VA (use as auto transformer, get 6000 VA at 240V)


I've got something similar to the last one, but 9000 VA. Think it weights more than my inverters.
I've added a thermostat to start a fan if it gets hot (40C), and a manual reset one to open if excessively hot (90C), opening a relay.
For now it is part of my circuit breaker tester (triple current, 1/3 the voltage) but later I will set it up to connect my my grid-backup system is running off-grid.
 
Note that while the magnetic core of the transformer can handle the VA rating, if you're just using two 120V primary windings as an auto-transformer their ampacity probably lets each handle only half the watts or VA. In which case it could handle surge to its VA rating just fine but maybe half that continuous.

The one with 3000VA rating, two 120V primary and two 120V secondary windings could be wired as both primary in parallel, both secondary in parallel, and primary/secondary in series with each other (auto-transformer). That would accept 3000VA from one 120V phase and deliver 3000VA to the split phase. So a 6000VA 120V inverter (or generator) could drive a 6000VA 240V load. Should be continuous, so long as airflow keeps it cool enough.
 
@erik.calco any chance you have the ElectroDacus SBMS0 setup with your pack and mpp? I did a quick setup of Will Prose's Hand Truck Generator. And the Dacus seems to be a great BMS but I can't seem to get it to prevent the MPP from charging even when it opens the circuit to the off/on switch of the MPP, (I soldered in parallel EXT03 from the Dacus). Also, not being an Electrician by any means, I wondered if there was a way to get the Dacus to shut off the load, (EXT03 appears to do that), and/or the Charging. I'd like to use EXT04 to shut down charging from the MPP, (Grid). But I'm thinking there would need to be something to wire to the MPP to stop the charging while in standby mode. BTW, great documentation.
 
@erik.calco any chance you have the ElectroDacus SBMS0 setup with your pack and mpp? I did a quick setup of Will Prose's Hand Truck Generator. And the Dacus seems to be a great BMS but I can't seem to get it to prevent the MPP from charging even when it opens the circuit to the off/on switch of the MPP, (I soldered in parallel EXT03 from the Dacus). Also, not being an Electrician by any means, I wondered if there was a way to get the Dacus to shut off the load, (EXT03 appears to do that), and/or the Charging. I'd like to use EXT04 to shut down charging from the MPP, (Grid). But I'm thinking there would need to be something to wire to the MPP to stop the charging while in standby mode. BTW, great documentation.
I used drop-in Lion Energy batteries which has their BMS inside each. There are limitations that I understand you trying to address. It does feel a bit like we're bleeding edge and the kinks need to be worked out, with the next generation looking back wondering how we survived. :LOL:
 
Do you have the LV2424 MSD or the LV2424 Hybrid?

I think I am finding out that Watchpower only works for the MSD version while the Solarpower software works for the hybrid version. Can you confirm?
 
I purchased an LV2424 MSD and have 2-12v, 100Amp hour LiFePO4 batteries is series. Erik, I noted when you started this post that your unit was trickle charging the batteries at around 1 A and also noted that your readout was showing around 75% charged when, according to the battery voltage, it should have been 100% or close to it. Did you ever resolve this issue? The reason I ask is that mine (which i just connected everything yesterday) show 27.2v which, according to the battery specs (SOK batteries) should be at 100%, but the readout is showing 70%. It is charging the batteries but not trickling. I have it set at 20A charge from solar (did not tie in my mains power yet, nor any loads) and that is what the readout indicated. I checked the batteries wire with a clamp-style Amp meter and, sure enough, it was reading around 20A. I let it run all day and even after several hours the readout still indicated 27.2V on the batteries and 70% charged. The charge to batteries was still 20A. After the sun set and no PV power, the battery dropped to 26.5V (80%) and stayed there overnight. Of course, the ony load was the 3W or so the LV2424 unit uses. My settings are bulk charge 28.4V and float of 27V. I have the float set low since LiFePO4 batteries don't need float (as i understand it). I did note that in your inital post that you had the float set much higher. Could that be my problem? Also, if the batteries state of charge was not balanced initally, could that be causing the issue? The unit works fine otherwise, i just don't like the fact that it seems to be charging the batteries when they appear to be full (confirmed the 27.2V reading with voltmeter by the way). My intention is to leave everything as is for today and see what happens but if it seeems to be feeding 20A to the battteries when the voltage indicates 100% charge, then I have a real cocern with the unit. I don't want it to damage the batteries. They do have BMS's but i shouldn't have to rely on those. The LV2424 should know when the batteries are fully charged and stop charging. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
I purchased an LV2424 MSD and have 2-12v, 100Amp hour LiFePO4 batteries is series. Erik, I noted when you started this post that your unit was trickle charging the batteries at around 1 A and also noted that your readout was showing around 75% charged when, according to the battery voltage, it should have been 100% or close to it. Did you ever resolve this issue? The reason I ask is that mine (which i just connected everything yesterday) show 27.2v which, according to the battery specs (SOK batteries) should be at 100%, but the readout is showing 70%. It is charging the batteries but not trickling. I have it set at 20A charge from solar (did not tie in my mains power yet, nor any loads) and that is what the readout indicated. I checked the batteries wire with a clamp-style Amp meter and, sure enough, it was reading around 20A. I let it run all day and even after several hours the readout still indicated 27.2V on the batteries and 70% charged. The charge to batteries was still 20A. After the sun set and no PV power, the battery dropped to 26.5V (80%) and stayed there overnight. Of course, the ony load was the 3W or so the LV2424 unit uses. My settings are bulk charge 28.4V and float of 27V. I have the float set low since LiFePO4 batteries don't need float (as i understand it). I did note that in your inital post that you had the float set much higher. Could that be my problem? Also, if the batteries state of charge was not balanced initally, could that be causing the issue? The unit works fine otherwise, i just don't like the fact that it seems to be charging the batteries when they appear to be full (confirmed the 27.2V reading with voltmeter by the way). My intention is to leave everything as is for today and see what happens but if it seeems to be feeding 20A to the battteries when the voltage indicates 100% charge, then I have a real cocern with the unit. I don't want it to damage the batteries. They do have BMS's but i shouldn't have to rely on those. The LV2424 should know when the batteries are fully charged and stop charging. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
From what I've found, Mpp uses a scale of 22v=0%, 29v=100% and its not changeable, and is for all battery types, user defined is what is to be used for Lifepo4.
 
From what I've found, Mpp uses a scale of 22v=0%, 29v=100% and its not changeable, and is for all battery types, user defined is what is to be used for Lifepo4.
Thanks. That's the conclusion i came to as well. I just needed to be a little more patient with the unit. By the second day, it stopped its bulk charge and seems to be keeping the batteries within the specs i set, so all is well. I just basically ignore the percentage. If the middle green light is solid, the charge is complete. i confimred with my volt and amp meters, so I'm good at this point. Thanks for the help.
 
Mpp uses a scale of 22v=0%, 29v=100% and its not changeable, and is for all battery types, user defined is what is to be used for Lifepo4.
just glancing at thread here, while wonder what different versions MPP has for its 24v All In Ones. I have the LV2424 for 120vac or 240vac split phase output options. In "user defined" mode for battery charging myLiFePO4 battery bank, ... Bulk or Absorption Charge voltage; and then Float voltage, and well as cut off voltage CAN Be Set within certain available ranges. ... :+)
 
Changing the float or low voltage cutoff levels also affects the battery% shown.
 
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