schmism
Solar Addict
my dual growatt spf 3000 together pull ~70w when in grid bypass
MPP-SOLAR LV6548
- Thread starter jasonhc73
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jasonhc73
Cat herder, and dog toy tosser.
My LV5048 x 2 do 20~30 watts at idle (night)
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Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
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Yeah, I have been back and forth comparing between the mentioned Growatt and the MPP solutions and they both have their strong points. I'm starting to think this Growatt SPF 12000DVM model is just a Sigineer M12000L-48SP (perhaps a custom trim made to Growatt spec, with Growatt specific firmware).
The weakest point for me about the Growatt is I can't string 4 panels in series with it's PV max 150v... Best I could do is 2s, so that would mean I would have to buy a second Midnite Solar DC combiner box assembly, thicker cable over to the house, have 2 rapid safety disconnects, etc... Also this inverter has a PV max combined input rating of 7000w and I am already at 8000w on the STC rating with only 20 of my 24 panels... And the Growatt is of course less efficiency (as low frequency inverters are), and thus more idle draw.
MPP Solar LV6548 has PV max input 250v, so I can do 4s strings with my 24 panels and use only the 6 DC breaker slots in the Midnite combiner I have now, with smaller gauge run to the house. These MPP also support each LV6548 PV input 8000w.
It sounds like the MPP should be able to start my compressor fine (which I'm going to install a soft-starter on anyways)... I'm leaning toward the MPP at this stage.
It turns out even the Sol-Ark is a transformerless inverter and it can start big motors fine (saw one in action at our coop ranch the other day), so the whole thing about needing a low frequency inverter to start a reasonable size single-phase motor just doesn't seem like it's such a big deal anymore, now that these modern inverter ratings are up in the 12k range these days. The high-frequency inverters are more conversion efficient, like well into the 90's percentile, where it seems the low frequency is lucky to hit > 85% or so...
The weakest point for me about the Growatt is I can't string 4 panels in series with it's PV max 150v... Best I could do is 2s, so that would mean I would have to buy a second Midnite Solar DC combiner box assembly, thicker cable over to the house, have 2 rapid safety disconnects, etc... Also this inverter has a PV max combined input rating of 7000w and I am already at 8000w on the STC rating with only 20 of my 24 panels... And the Growatt is of course less efficiency (as low frequency inverters are), and thus more idle draw.
MPP Solar LV6548 has PV max input 250v, so I can do 4s strings with my 24 panels and use only the 6 DC breaker slots in the Midnite combiner I have now, with smaller gauge run to the house. These MPP also support each LV6548 PV input 8000w.
It sounds like the MPP should be able to start my compressor fine (which I'm going to install a soft-starter on anyways)... I'm leaning toward the MPP at this stage.
It turns out even the Sol-Ark is a transformerless inverter and it can start big motors fine (saw one in action at our coop ranch the other day), so the whole thing about needing a low frequency inverter to start a reasonable size single-phase motor just doesn't seem like it's such a big deal anymore, now that these modern inverter ratings are up in the 12k range these days. The high-frequency inverters are more conversion efficient, like well into the 90's percentile, where it seems the low frequency is lucky to hit > 85% or so...
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SolarBro
Solar Budgeteer
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Wow. Id go for the mpp solar units then
Samsonite801
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Yep, I just bought a pair of the LV6548's.... Now just gotta wait and hope the boat has big turbos on it and gets here fast, they said it takes 3 days before they even ship so they can do full bench test on them...
Let us know about the idle draw.
30w seems too good to be true but I hope I am wrong about that.
Capt Bill
Sailing Options
Interesting; from my perspective of just dialing my my 3 x MPP LV2424 onmy 1st DIY 24v LiFePO4 build, configured for 240vac split phase; while wondering if I might ever try something of MPP line in bigger 48v sizes; ... wondering about your "most of the limits" re LV5048. If you would not mind: Which limits do you notice that you see the LV6548 eliminating. Curious, especially as I think about friends asking my about my takes on their DIY options.
P.S. Re: My LV2424s limitiations (sure there must be other on top of night time idle draw, x 3 for me, whcih is higher han some other possible choices); I like my LV2424 for now, but the one limitation I do not like is; ... even though each of my 3 LV2424s has a up to 60 amp in to battery - grid powered battery charger option in em; when the LV2424s are configure for 240ac split phase; to get an inverter generator powered battery charge cycle going, the owner/operator must supply 240vac split phase to (I believe) entire line of LV242, an there NO Grid Charge can comes on line from applying just 120vac to one LV2424 unit . So there is No way to for me charge my batteries with my good 4000 Watt 120vac Inverter Generator unless I reconfigure one of my LV2424s back to single use mode, (and likely fully disconnect the others)... At least I figured out a back up plan, workaround idea (just previously mentioned) for if I ever wanted to, or needed to charge up my LiFePO4 battery bank on some long cloudy day cycle while powering up my house sub panel with my 120vac inverter generator. I wonder if that is the same story for the battery charger in the LLV5048, and LV6548 ? Questions from just reading about LV5048 limitations.
:+) Bill
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jasonhc73
Cat herder, and dog toy tosser.
LV5048 has no "schedule" features.
LV5048 has almost no surge capability.
LV5048 is limited to just three in 240V Split phase. (although I do have a diagram that shows 6, so who really knows?)
LV5048 does have a wifi option, but it is terrible. The LV6548 has a wifi app and wifi adapter builtin.
LV5048 MPPT V limit is much more constraining than the LV6548. 115V DC may not seem like a very big limit, but where it comes into play is the DCV amperages have to be double that of the LV6548 with its 230V DC MPPT. My ~40VDC VOC panels often show 41 or 42 VDC, So I see 83 and 84V all the time in the early morning. If I had 3 panels in series that would be 120V to 126V DC very easily, and this is in nice comfortable fall temps. As the winter approaches DCV can be as much as 20% higher until the panels warm. That is somewhere right at the extreme limits of the MPPT in the LV5048.
There is one big advantage that I realized that the LV5048 over the LV6548;
You can run one LV5048 at 240V/208V Split Phase, this is simply not possible on the LV6548. The LV6548 must be purchased and used in at least one pair to use the 240V/208V Split phase. (Shown in the previous post in this thread)
Both still use WatchPower, it is still terrible.
LV5048 has almost no surge capability.
LV5048 is limited to just three in 240V Split phase. (although I do have a diagram that shows 6, so who really knows?)
LV5048 does have a wifi option, but it is terrible. The LV6548 has a wifi app and wifi adapter builtin.
LV5048 MPPT V limit is much more constraining than the LV6548. 115V DC may not seem like a very big limit, but where it comes into play is the DCV amperages have to be double that of the LV6548 with its 230V DC MPPT. My ~40VDC VOC panels often show 41 or 42 VDC, So I see 83 and 84V all the time in the early morning. If I had 3 panels in series that would be 120V to 126V DC very easily, and this is in nice comfortable fall temps. As the winter approaches DCV can be as much as 20% higher until the panels warm. That is somewhere right at the extreme limits of the MPPT in the LV5048.
There is one big advantage that I realized that the LV5048 over the LV6548;
You can run one LV5048 at 240V/208V Split Phase, this is simply not possible on the LV6548. The LV6548 must be purchased and used in at least one pair to use the 240V/208V Split phase. (Shown in the previous post in this thread)
Both still use WatchPower, it is still terrible.
Samsonite801
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Perhaps you could use one of these datacenter SURT003 split-phase transformers like this:
APC SURT003 Smart UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply | eBay
Model Number: SURT003. Manufacturer: APC. We would also allow local pick up for this order. Item Location. Condition: Used. Testing: Untested.
www.ebay.com
...to plug in between your generator 240v single-phase and the MPPs...
This is what I have in my Prius wired after my SURT5000XLT inverter. They provide split-phase output...
There are other options for split-phase transformers too of course, but these are convenient and fairly inexpensive to acquire used, if you shop around. They are rated at 30a input. They are heavy though...
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EDIT:
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NEVERMIND, I re-read the part, you said your generator is 120v, disregard...
I know ACME has some transformers you might be able to use for step-up with center-tap secondary winding... Probably not worth it...
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Capt Bill
Sailing Options
Thanks for pitch, ...got me looking for hard to find specs/ ... Glad to consider options. Happy Days, BillPerhaps you could use one of these datacenter SURT003 split-phase transformers like this:
APC SURT003 Smart UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply | eBay
Model Number: SURT003. Manufacturer: APC. We would also allow local pick up for this order. Item Location. Condition: Used. Testing: Untested.www.ebay.com
...to plug in between your generator 240v single-phase and the MPPs...
This is what I have in my Prius wired after my SURT5000XLT inverter. They provide split-phase output...
There are other options for split-phase transformers too of course, but these are convenient and fairly inexpensive to acquire used, if you shop around. They are rated at 30a input. They are heavy though...
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EDIT:
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NEVERMIND, I re-read the part, you said your generator is 120v, disregard...
I know ACME has some transformers you might be able to use for step-up with center-tap secondary winding... Probably not worth it...
Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
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Here's a couple pictures of the LV6548, came in the other day, just had a chance to unbox and have first look:
Capt Bill
Sailing Options
Re: Idle use draws: My 3x LV2424s show a 6 amp draw on BMS that kind of matches both LV2424 battery draw info. plus another forum member saying his LV2424 has about a 50 watt idle draw. The newer bigger model looks attractive, like a good bang for the buck. Wow Samsonite: That new LV6548 look good, and like a great project to put on line. Hope to keep tack of your posts here. :+)
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Samsonite801
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Ha, I don't even have a house or a pole barn to install them in yet! I might have to install them into the basement of my motorhome and it can double as a heater for the Winter... I'll get there though, just a slow and patient road I must follow
I will post updates though, as the project unfolds. The plan was, I will eventually get a Sol-Ark in the long run, but this experiment, it was more in my starting budget to get the MPP, to be something that will last for 2-3 years or so, be very cost effective, have good reviews, etc, so I can start building structures sooner...
Still need a well, septic, pole barn, passive home, greenhouse, garden, orchard, and I'm out of money now (don't worry, I got this, just takes time is all)... At least, I am grateful to the skies above that I am able, and have a decent job and a set of goals...
jasonhc73
Cat herder, and dog toy tosser.
Listen to me very carefully.Ha, I don't even have a house or a pole barn to install them in yet! I might have to install them into the basement of my motorhome and it can double as a heater for the Winter... I'll get there though, just a slow and patient road I must follow
I will post updates though, as the project unfolds. The plan was, I will eventually get a Sol-Ark in the long run, but this experiment, it was more in my starting budget to get the MPP, to be something that will last for 2-3 years or so, be very cost effective, have good reviews, etc, so I can start building structures sooner...
Still need a well, septic, pole barn, passive home, greenhouse, garden, orchard, and I'm out of money now (don't worry, I got this, just takes time is all)... At least, I am grateful to the skies above that I am able, and have a decent job and a set of goals...
This is not going to work on a motorhome.
So, send it to me until you get your barn and greenhouse up. I will watch over them and send postcards and take selfies of them so you know it is happy and waiting. Trust me, I turn solar power in the driving miles!
Samsonite801
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Dang, I was afraid of that... Well I might also need a place to store all the 32 LiFePO4 cells and a bunch of other stuff too, you have more room for that too?
Capt Bill
Sailing Options
I would seriously consider MPP's LV2424 for a motor home option. It connects up to a 24vdc battery bank, can take in up to 2000 watts of of Solar panel input, while able to function on less much less., plus has a 60 amp grid powered, or inverter generator powered battery charger in it. Something to ponder :+)Dang, I was afraid of that... Well I might also need a place to store all the 32 LiFePO4 cells and a bunch of other stuff too, you have more room for that too?
jasonhc73
Cat herder, and dog toy tosser.
I have 64 somewhere out the Pacific Ocean. But since you mention it, I can put a few cycles on your 32 just to keep them active. Electrons just sitting there not going back and forth across the membrane can't be good for their morale.Dang, I was afraid of that... Well I might also need a place to store all the 32 LiFePO4 cells and a bunch of other stuff too, you have more room for that too?
I'm thinking of using two of the LV6548's for a split phase grid tie (no back feed) set up. This would be for my vacation/rental house in Jamaica. My PV size would be roughly 8kw and 8.5kwh of LifePo4 Batteries.
For wiring to my house, I was thinking of interrupting the main after the meter to a new breaker panel and then from there to the LV6548's with the load side going to the breaker in the house. Would this be a good setup?
For wiring to my house, I was thinking of interrupting the main after the meter to a new breaker panel and then from there to the LV6548's with the load side going to the breaker in the house. Would this be a good setup?
jasonhc73
Cat herder, and dog toy tosser.
I do this already for the past full year. I run my entire house on the pair (LV5048 previous model).
Think of it like this;
Solar and Grid --> LV6548 --> House
This is Grid-Connected, not grid-tied. Grid-Tied means back feed or "bi-directional".
Your battery bank is not very big, but as long as you have no more than 2 days of clouds in a row, you will be fine, and since you do have the grid-connected as the input, you won't have to worry about being without power.
Thanks! I can always add more batteries. One more question, I read the manual and having seen anything about power share. If the load is more than what the inverter can do, does it completely switch over to grid?
