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Be very careful having your DIY batteries as part of your Solar install permit. The codes are pretty clear that everything has to be UL listed.
Batteries won't be part of my solar permit. They will be on a separate permit. And it is very possible I might have to buy UL listed batteries or put my DIYs outside. I can always use the DIYs to extend the range of my electric car.
 
Be very careful having your DIY batteries as part of your Solar install permit. The codes are pretty clear that everything has to be UL listed.
Bob, can you please point me to the code that clearly says batteries must be UL listed?
Pinellas county told me NEC 690 has all of the rules for batteries and I don't see UL mentioned there.
 
Most of the codes for batteries used in solar installs fall under Electrical Storage Systems (ESS).

NEC 609 Part VIII directs you to NEC 706. But what is extremely interesting is that section says it only applies to systems above 60V DC. So maybe there are no code requirements for batteries under 60V??? That would be a discussion to have with an electrical inspector.

A quick google search came up with this "Summary Doc" (but not the official source) https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2019/08/ESS-Final-Handout_8-8-2019.pdf

"Listed and Labeled Energy storage systems are required by the Codes to be listed in accordance with UL 9540 (Standard for Safety for Energy Storage Systems and Equipment). A certification mark such as the UL Certified Mark, affixed to the product as well as product installation in accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions provides the inspector evidence of code compliance [NEC Section 110.3(8)]. NEC Section 706.5 requires that other than lead-acid batteries, energy storage components shall be listed and labeled or self-contained energy storage systems shall be listed as a complete energy storage system. NEC Section 706.8(8) requires that when energy storage systems are connect to other energy systems such as PV, only inverters and ac modules listed and identified as interactive are permitted on interactive systems. The Certification Mark for these products includes the UL symbol, the words "CERTIFIED" and "SAFETY," the geographic identifier(s), and a file number. For multi-piece units, the Certification Mark appears on each outside enclosure section constituting a complete energy storage system eligible for certification. Each enclosure section of a certified energy storage systems is provided with a "Section ___ of ___ " marking, where the second blank indicates the total number of enclosure sections contained in the certified energy storage system and the first blank indicates the respective enclosure section number bearing the Certification Mark. The UL Certification Mark on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products have been evaluated to the applicable safety standards. One of the following product identities appears on the UL Certified product: • Multimode Energy Storage System • Special-purpose Multimode Energy Storage System • Special-purpose Utility Interactive Energy Storage System • Stand-alone Energy Storage System • Utility Interactive Energy Storage System For additional information visit www.ul.com/codeauthonties
 
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Most of the codes for batteries used in solar installs fall under Electrical Storage Systems (ESS).

I don't have the exact section, but a quick google search came up with this "Summary Doc" (but not the official source) https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2019/08/ESS-Final-Handout_8-8-2019.pdf

"Listed and Labeled Energy storage systems are required by the Codes to be listed in accordance with UL 9540 (Standard for Safety for Energy Storage Systems and Equipment). A certification mark such as the UL Certified Mark, affixed to the product as well as product installation in accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions provides the inspector evidence of code compliance [NEC Section 110.3(8)]. NEC Section 706.5 requires that other than lead-acid batteries, energy storage components shall be listed and labeled or self-contained energy storage systems shall be listed as a complete energy storage system. NEC Section 706.8(8) requires that when energy storage systems are connect to other energy systems such as PV, only inverters and ac modules listed and identified as interactive are permitted on interactive systems. The Certification Mark for these products includes the UL symbol, the words "CERTIFIED" and "SAFETY," the geographic identifier(s), and a file number. For multi-piece units, the Certification Mark appears on each outside enclosure section constituting a complete energy storage system eligible for certification. Each enclosure section of a certified energy storage systems is provided with a "Section ___ of ___ " marking, where the second blank indicates the total number of enclosure sections contained in the certified energy storage system and the first blank indicates the respective enclosure section number bearing the Certification Mark. The UL Certification Mark on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products have been evaluated to the applicable safety standards. One of the following product identities appears on the UL Certified product: • Multimode Energy Storage System • Special-purpose Multimode Energy Storage System • Special-purpose Utility Interactive Energy Storage System • Stand-alone Energy Storage System • Utility Interactive Energy Storage System For additional information visit www.ul.com/codeauthonties
Perfect thanks. I don't know why I had difficulty finding that.
So, basically, every battery connected to a grid tied solar system has to be UL listed.
Which means no DIY or car batteries can be legally connected to a grid tied system. LOL
Looks like I need to start searching for some cheap UL listed batteries.
 
Just enough battery to satisfy/fool the inspector.
Of course that is possible. Or I can just not get a permit but if there is a fire it might not be insured.
My DIY batteries will be safer than cheap UL listed batteries.
I could probably buy a bunch of dirty junkyard UL batteries and string them up in a sloppy mess but pass inspection. barf
 
Of course that is possible. Or I can just not get a permit but if there is a fire it might not be insured.
My DIY batteries will be safer than cheap UL listed batteries.
I could probably buy a bunch of dirty junkyard UL batteries and string them up in a sloppy mess but pass inspection. barf
If you're using the Sol-Ark inverter there's no need to have a battery hooked up to it for the Solar install inspection. It will run fine without it. My plan is to get the primary solar install inspected and just hook-up batteries in a later "phase". The utility co. won't know anything more has been connected and the only risk is your insurance company denying a claim caused by an electrical issue if they discover it might have been caused by your battery bank. Same with a gas/lp generator. The Sol-Ark already has the inputs and there's nothing else needed for me to hook up a generator and get power to a critical loads panel. The ease at which you can hook-up and change out other energy inputs is the main reason I'm looking hard at the Sol-ark.
 
If you're using the Sol-Ark inverter there's no need to have a battery hooked up to it for the Solar install inspection. It will run fine without it. My plan is to get the primary solar install inspected and just hook-up batteries in a later "phase". The utility co. won't know anything more has been connected and the only risk is your insurance company denying a claim caused by an electrical issue if they discover it might have been caused by your battery bank. Same with a gas/lp generator. The Sol-Ark already has the inputs and there's nothing else needed for me to hook up a generator and get power to a critical loads panel. The ease at which you can hook-up and change out other energy inputs is the main reason I'm looking hard at the Sol-ark.

The solark will work without the battery and I inquired about it with the county and AltE already. I plan to get solar installed without the batteries because I am not ready and I am tired of waiting for solar.

Here's the email I sent to Pinellas county -

Hello, I am in the process of applying for a permit to self install solar on my house.
The system I plan to install has a hybrid inverter that is ready for batteries.
I don't plan to install the batteries at this time.
But when I do buy batteries will I need to get another permit? Thank you,

Here's the answer-

Yes , you can get another permit at that time.
 
If you're using the Sol-Ark inverter there's no need to have a battery hooked up to it for the Solar install inspection. It will run fine without it. My plan is to get the primary solar install inspected and just hook-up batteries in a later "phase". The utility co. won't know anything more has been connected and the only risk is your insurance company denying a claim caused by an electrical issue if they discover it might have been caused by your battery bank. Same with a gas/lp generator. The Sol-Ark already has the inputs and there's nothing else needed for me to hook up a generator and get power to a critical loads panel. The ease at which you can hook-up and change out other energy inputs is the main reason I'm looking hard at the Sol-ark.
You need to evaluate those inputs carefully. The Solark has many options but if you use AC coupling you lose the generator and Smart loads.
Or if you use Smart loads you lose AC coupling and generator. You can only use that input for one of the choices.
And I am choosing Smart loads.
 
Just enough battery to satisfy/fool the inspector.
I am really annoyed about his. I bet a lot of the cheap UL listed lifePo4 batteries have $5 BMSs in them.
Most likely I am going to have to put a shed out in my yard and move the damn SolArk and batteries outside.
I will inquire with the county more to be sure what all of my options are.
 
If you're using the Sol-Ark inverter there's no need to have a battery hooked up to it for the Solar install inspection. It will run fine without it. My plan is to get the primary solar install inspected and just hook-up batteries in a later "phase". The utility co. won't know anything more has been connected and the only risk is your insurance company denying a claim caused by an electrical issue if they discover it might have been caused by your battery bank. Same with a gas/lp generator. The Sol-Ark already has the inputs and there's nothing else needed for me to hook up a generator and get power to a critical loads panel. The ease at which you can hook-up and change out other energy inputs is the main reason I'm looking hard at the Sol-ark.
There is a good chance that I will add an interlock and only use my batteries when the grid is down.
I will be grid tied with net metering so there is no reason to cycle the batteries everyday when the grid is up.
Maybe I'll find a better solution but this makes the most sense at the moment.

edit: I forgot to mention that the county inspector got back to me and confirmed that non UL batteries will never pass.
 
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Is there a way to trace the QR code/serial numbers back to EVE? I've attached the UL Filing for their Model "LF280-280ah". (File # = MH62190). If the QR code could trace to that EVE model number, then might give them a more legitimate pedigree.
"Reprinted from the Online Certifications Directory with permission from UL" must appear adjacent to the extracted material.
 

Attachments

  • EVE_Power_Co_LTD_ LFP280-280AH_UL_.pdf
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Is there a way to trace the QR code/serial numbers back to EVE? If so, you could ask EVE USA for a copy of their UL certification letter (a pic of it is on their site, but it's not downloadable) & then show the evidence that the cells are produced by EVE via the QR code. That would give them a more legitimate pedigree.
I saw that UL certificate on their site. There are threads around that say EVE gets mad when people ask about these cells. They won't verify anything. I imagine EVE cells have a warranty but these do not.
I'm not going to spend much time worrying about this. My batteries will be ready when I need them. And that is pretty cool.
 
Is there a way to trace the QR code/serial numbers back to EVE? I've attached the UL Filing for their Model "LF280-280ah". (File # = MH62190). If the QR code could trace to that EVE model number, then might give them a more legitimate pedigree.
"Reprinted from the Online Certifications Directory with permission from UL" must appear adjacent to the extracted material.
Thanks for posting, I lost my original download when my computer crashed. My inspector wanted this doc. when I did my diy install last year.
 
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