diy solar

diy solar

Must Read: EMF (Electro Magnetic Field) or leaking current/ voltage, and why you need to be aware

Frank in Thailand

making mistakes so you don't have to...
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
1,676
Location
Thailand
I'm playing with solar for quite some time now and observed a strange phenomenon that I could not place.

With my lead acid setup, 16 X 200Ah the rack to hold the batteries, made of thick iron beams, "suddenly" had electric charge.
And not even a little!!

Suddenly as in building the thing and getting a shock weeks (months?) later.

It was standing on dry concrete, not good grounding.

IMG_20200417_205324.jpg
(Picture made during installation, but clear picture of the massive iron rack)

Now, I moved up to LiFePO4 cells.
1016Ah @S16, +50 kWh LiFePO4 Powerwall.

I made a new setup where I compress the cells as adviced with threaded rods.

Guess what, they getting charged in days!
It hurts to touch them, we talk about that high charge...

my setup have the bus-bars "hoovering" over the threaded rods.
2 times, two detection, positive and negative....

and it's impressive!!
IMG_20201112_160629_786_copy_512x288.jpgIMG_20201112_160613_389_copy_512x384.jpg

Not so much my build, but the results of the EMF!!

After a few days the rods are charged with enough power to hurt.

I never got any degree in electronics or EMF, so, just a total noob here reporting what happens.
Not the how or why.
It just does.

Living off grid, no electricity lines for miles and miles, the only one that makes a setup that generates electricity is me.

No one else to blaim, no blank inverter lines connected even close to the rods.

DC.
From battery and possibly also the solar system, 4500 watts at 350v.
(At time of occurrance)

I had my mining rig close to the battery, and while working perfectly in the past, it suddenly got all type of strange errors.

I didn't make the link untill now..

I just turned it off for when I have energy to fix it.
(Medical issues)

It's been months inside the field..
Just hope they are OK.

For the EMF...

Shielding!
Simple aluminium foil will do.
With first plastic layer to protect against accidental short.

Higher capacity and larger electricity usage does require EMF protection.
If not for health, then for your equipment.
 
Last edited:
Are you sure you have a very good ground for your battery rack. If you are picking up large amounts of EMF, try grounding your rack to a 1/2 inch copper rod going down into the ground a least 8 feet. That's the code here where I live for homes running off the grid. Another good grounding source is a metal or copper water pipe, not pvc piping. - Cement is a very bad ground and will drain your batteries if they are setting on the cement. At least that was the way it was back many years.

Unless you live close to very high voltage power lines or a nuclear power plant, I don't know where you would be picking up that kind of EMF.
 
I fail to see how you get emf out of DC. Use the foil to make a hat. The hat will have to be grounded or it will not protect you.
 
Yeah, I am unsure how that could occur. You should buy an EMF meter to provide evidence with your claim. I do not understand how that system could possibly "charge up with EMF" unless you had some massive coils and you were a few feet from high voltage lines. I am confused.
 
@fhorst
I noticed that you have wind turbines in your system. I'm not familiar with wind turbine systems, but I have read that they can build up static charges due to the air movement over non conductive surfaces. The shocks you describe sound like static charges more than emf induced voltages. EMF next to a rod should induce eddy currents at low voltages, not low currents at high voltage.

I'm just spit-balling, but is there a path from your wind system components down to your storage that could be collecting the static charges, or could your wind tower earthing be bad?
 
DC does not generate EMF, period. Metal rods cannot "build up" a charge, period.

You have a serious safety hazard in your system. Use science and a meter to track it down or you could get hurt for real.
 
@boondox
"DC can not generate EMF"...
Lol.

You probably where asleep during that class....

All electrical flow have magnetic field. They are like yin and Yang, always together.

Tesla made a huge DC wireless power transmission during the world fair.

Or more day to day:
Your UTP cable is twisted to counteract the magnetic field generated in each line.

More common than that...
I can't make it for you.

So YES DC does generate electro magnetic field.
Even for low Voltage UTP enough to have the need to be twister to avoid too much communication errors.

@Will Prowse
Buy Epf meter?? Lol.
Sure I can provide you my address, you can send one to me.
No, serious, I don't need to buy a meter to prove something that is known phenomenon since 1880 or so.

you don't need a mulitmeter to prove there is electricity if there is a light bulb glowing.

I think the pictures in my setup are clear enough on how it is build.

Plywood with 1/4 inch rods.
Bus-bar = tinned copper.
Studs, mostly 304 stainless, and some carbon as I didn't have enough 304 of long enough size.

What I can show you is the voltage on the rods.
The rods have NO wire connection.

If they are charged, I can measure voltages, then you can explain to me where this originates from.

I'll make a video later today, showing the charged rods.

Magic or Electro Magnetic Field?
(Feel free to read up on Wikipedia about it)

As said, the setup is not grounded yet.

I do have ground pin "closeby" and will use this ASAP.

@Jim Burrow , thank you for your serous reply. Yes, I have noticed the drain of my lead acid setup also.

@Zil take a hike. If you like to be a ?, do that on a different forum.
Or study a bit so you know what you are bashing.

If you think it's nonsense, feel free to visit and check it out for yourself.
Perhaps your tin hat will protect you from Corona?

I call your reply disrespectful.

It's really hard to find real information about EMF as some people are scared about health issues.
In fact... Tonnes of unsupported claims how mobile phone will fry your brain bla bla bla..

Real information on how it can charge or affect items, (not humans) is rare..
Way too much pollution from "believers"
Probably those people thought Corona was a hoax also...
 
Last edited:
@fhorst
I noticed that you have wind turbines in your system. I'm not familiar with wind turbine systems, but I have read that they can build up static charges due to the air movement over non conductive surfaces. The shocks you describe sound like static charges more than emf induced voltages. EMF next to a rod should induce eddy currents at low voltages, not low currents at high voltage.

I'm just spit-balling, but is there a path from your wind system components down to your storage that could be collecting the static charges, or could your wind tower earthing be bad?
At the moment the wind turbines are not connected, they are in "lock mode"

They are outside my home and not connected to my home stucture via rebars or so,
It's also my water tower, or original the water tower that provides additional hight for the 4 small 800w turbines.

I'm not telling I totally understand how this charge works.

I'm just writing what I experience.

And it's strange! Sure, yes.
Unexpected also.

I provided a picture of the metal rack, filled with my 16 X 200Ah lead acid battery.
And, in fact, the "bus-bars" make more or less a coil.
Or a loop or circles. What ever you like to call it.

What I noticed is that the rack was getting charged.

Not directly, no, but after a few weeks/ months, I could measure voltage difference between soil ) concrete slab) and the iron rack.
No bare wires.

You tell me?
Am I making free electricity??
Natural power source from this area??

Sure, it's rocky red lava soil full of iron.
But it would be "unique"....

Even then, 10 cm white sand, 10 cm concrete slab with rebars...
That would be extra "unique"

If I exclude natural sources, as it doesn't occur to the rack now it's used for storage and not batteries, I can only conclude that the lead acid battery and the iron rack together made it happening.

No more lead acid batteries in use, But now I noticed voltage on the threaded rods!

That is too much of a coincidence.
Then it's a phenomenal that reoccurs.

I'm no science expert.
I just measure voltage, and there is not a source that can create static electricity that quickly on low voltage (you will see in the video)

There are a lot of wires coming from the cells to the BMS cell modules.

All have coating, or how it's called in English, not bare.

It is strange.

In a few hours... The video.

I think I can attach it here?
 
I would guess the solar panels are the source of the EMF either through damaged internal circuitry, or potentially external static (nearby thunderstorm) especially since the charge happened "suddenly". Are the panels securely grounded?

My day job is industrial weighing and I have seen static charges throw off readings and scramble electronics. Once a nearby 3-phase AC motor zapped my tech through the loadcell shield wire.

Static charge is a huge concern with my golf cart and I hesitate to use onboard 48V inverter without being first grounded & bonded to my house breaker panel.

Setting a battery on concrete has been debunked on the internet however I have no personal experience.
 
I noticed my threaded rod scratched through the blue plastic cover on a few of my cells.
Now I'm using clear hose over the rods
Yes, I saw your post about it.

While my 152Ah cells are "damaged" on the foil, the 280Ah are mint condition.

I also understood that LiFePO4 round cells have negative pole on the casing, like normal battery have, for the rectangular blocks that we use, it's unknown for me.
I haven't tested it yet.

I'll try to do this later today.
 
I would guess the solar panels are the source of the EMF either through damaged internal circuitry, or potentially external static (nearby thunderstorm) especially since the charge happened "suddenly". Are the panels securely grounded?

My day job is industrial weighing and I have seen static charges throw off readings and scramble electronics. Once a nearby 3-phase AC motor zapped my tech through the loadcell shield wire.

Static charge is a huge concern with my golf cart and I hesitate to use onboard 48V inverter without being first grounded & bonded to my house breaker panel.

Setting a battery on concrete has been debunked on the internet however I have no personal experience.

If my solar panels would be close to my battery setup, that would be an explanation.

They are about 15 meters from my battery array.

I have 27 panels attached to my roof, and they are grounded with the iron skeleton of the house.

That is "grounded" with the rebar nets in the concrete slab (13 X 22 meter)

My lead acid battery drained being on the rack, with absolutely no connection to the rack.
Drained is perhaps a too strong word.
They didn't last as long as one would expect them to do.
The LiFePO4 cells do perform as expected.

Between then and now are 2 different type /brand inverter/MPPT and hybrid, where the last one, EASun hybrid decided to charge de lead acid batteries with 78v..
Something not easy to catch, as even when you provide 78v to the cells, as they aren't fully charged, you won't read 78v.
When the 800Ah@ 48v did not last a night , while having enough sun during the day and show "fully charged", it was clear something was wrong.
Even that big lead acid array won't like that for a long period of time.

It made my +/- $4000,- Lead acid investment last under 6 months :-(

As we live off grid, the energy system is always in use.

No energy, no light , no hot water, no internet, no.... Well, you can complete the list.
 
Yes I am going to take a walk in the country side and enjoy our windy storm blowing through the trees. You seem to be the only one that experiences this effect from a battery bank to the metal rack. Please tell us what you discover to be true.
 
I had my mining rig close to the battery, and while working perfectly in the past, it suddenly got all type of strange errors.
This supports my hypothesis of a static charge.
That is "grounded" with the rebar nets in the concrete slab (13 X 22 meter)
Concrete is not conductive and may not dissipate an existing charge. Drive a copper ground rod.
 
I read voltages of 15-40 volts.
Not continue, during the reading it gets discharged, after a few seconds the rods are charged again.

So many rods, not connected with eachother, all different voltage readings.

I don't understand it, except that EMF makes the most logical explanation.


Electromagnetism

Electromagnetic field
 
This supports my hypothesis of a static charge.

Concrete is not conductive and may not dissipate an existing charge. Drive a copper ground rod.
I have a copper rod in the ground, about 2 meter deep.

Standard "lightning rod"

The rebars in the slap are "grounded" to 6 same pins, about 1/2 inch.

I haven't connected the iron roof structure to the pins yet.
(But made 50mm2 copper wire stick out of the concrete to make connections)

At that time I did not have the right equipment to solder on the wire and connect to the roof structure.

Original idea was to have lighting protection on the rooftop.

I do have protection on the water tower, that's a few meters from our house.
At the middle of the length, if you understand.
That rod is really sufficient in catching the lighting that does occur here regular.

My Thai wife used to be scared for lighting as it does set "houses" (metal sheets and natural roof) on fire here often.
After witnessing several strikes without any effect, she's comfortable now :)

It would be possible that it gets charged by defective panel.

With 2 sets , one of 18 and one of 9 it's not easy to spot if a panel is producing less.
 
Last edited:
I
Yes I am going to take a walk in the country side and enjoy our windy storm blowing through the trees. You seem to be the only one that experiences this effect from a battery bank to the metal rack. Please tell us what you discover to be true.
Already wrote what phenomenon I am witnessing.

I have absolutely no need to fantasize something, I can spend my time better.

That you did not have this experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

No stormy weather here, +30 and sunny as usual.
Also practical Corona free..

Something that is a fantasy according to you as USA seems to have mayor trouble getting it contained??

When you out there, get yourself a new set of glasses, that keeps your view open.
 
Just a voltage difference between you and the rods.
Fuel tankers have a earth lead they connect to the fuel tanks before refilling.
An earth strap on your boots?

You really need to fix this... do you have a pacemaker....or even worse: a $800 smartwatch??


Probably need to earth each rod to the frame. Wrapping your cells with tin foil before binding them isn't so silly.
Earthing is only a generic term. In most cases establishing a connection between two sites of PD is the aim.

Edit- ''You can't get emf with dc!" With switchmode electronics isn't DC just AC with zero V set lower?
 
Last edited:
I also understood that LiFePO4 round cells have negative pole on the casing, like normal battery have, for the rectangular blocks that we use, it's unknown for me.
I haven't tested it yet.

I'll try to do this later today.
This has been done and is leakage voltage. If you put a very small load across it the voltage drops to zero. I am still interested in what you find.
 
I was going to say leakage. You've got DC voltages. Humidity, and contamination. Just ground the offending parts.
Ground through a resistor if you want to make sure an accidental short to them doesn't carry a high current.

For AC EMF to do this, need a rectifier. Metal oxide could create a diode.

The other thing we do for some circuits is provide an electrical shield to catch leakage, for instance a guard ring around a high impedance node, driven to same voltage as node so leakage doesn't carry current. Tri-axial cable is used the same way for a fempto-ammeter.
 
Back
Top