My 550Ah LiFePO4 Lishen Battery Bank starts here and now.

[cargovanconversion]

Just placed my order (Nov. 26) at Xuba for 8 - 3.2V cells 272Ah Lishen LiFePO4 with 16 busbars at $69 each, $198 shipping and $22 CC fee. Total $780 to Florida.
Plan two 4S configurations, each with its own BMS with maximum 240A discharge.
Pina was my contact at Xuba and so far, responsive and correct. Had some issues with the credit card payment at Alibaba; needed the verification process (uploading images of my credit card and ID) befor the CC was accepted.
Now the waiting game is on.
I will update this post as events happen.

Van Williams

 

[MadMax03]

Cool. I'm in Tampa. My four cells are a month ahead of yours and no FedEx scan yet. You got a good deal. Keep in touch.

 

[cargovanconversion]

Cool. I'm in Tampa. My four cells are a month ahead of yours and no FedEx scan yet. You got a good deal. Keep in touch.

Shipping cost is relatively lower as you increase the number of cells. I had a number of price quotes, going as high as ~$1600.
Do you also have Lishen and what are you planning to use them for?
Van Williams

 

[MadMax03]

280ah Eve cells from Shenzhen Basin. Car stereo.

 

[HighTechLab]

I was thinking about importing cells to USA as part of my business and then reselling as US based inventory with much shorter delivery times than china. Lots are discussing these Lishen cells - Are people actually getting them in reasonable amounts of time or is 2+ months typical/reasonable? I would think that if you could get them in a week (Because they are stocked in the US) then I could probably charge $100 or so per 173AH cell plus shipping. Am I way off on the price per cell?

Right now I'm bringing in CALB CA180 cells which are 180AH and selling them for $180/each with buss bars.

 

[MadMax03]

You could kill it in the car audio industry with raw cells. Bass head fools on all your popular car audio forums and groups are dropping between $1k and $2k for less than 100ah of LFP. I really don't get it.

 

[cargovanconversion]

I was thinking about importing cells to USA as part of my business and then reselling as US based inventory with much shorter delivery times than china. Lots are discussing these Lishen cells - Are people actually getting them in reasonable amounts of time or is 2+ months typical/reasonable? I would think that if you could get them in a week (Because they are stocked in the US) then I could probably charge $100 or so per 173AH cell plus shipping. Am I way off on the price per cell?

Right now I'm bringing in CALB CA180 cells which are 180AH and selling them for $180/each with buss bars.

There are many opportunities right now, to jump into the LiFePO4 market, as many are doing. If you already have setup a business and have the legal issues taken care of, you already have an advantage. In my opinion, most buyers, don't want to deal with China, long delivery times, lack of real warranties or plainly languages issues. Neither dealing with individual cells, adding BMSs , boxes, cables, testing. The drop-in LiFePO4 replacement is a potentially big market. But that needs knowledge, business savvy and investment. Otherwise it remains a hobby.
That's the best advice I can give
Van Williams

 

[Stepandwolf]

I was thinking about importing cells to USA as part of my business and then reselling as US based inventory with much shorter delivery times than china. Lots are discussing these Lishen cells - Are people actually getting them in reasonable amounts of time or is 2+ months typical/reasonable? I would think that if you could get them in a week (Because they are stocked in the US) then I could probably charge $100 or so per 173AH cell plus shipping. Am I way off on the price per cell?

Right now I'm bringing in CALB CA180 cells which are 180AH and selling them for $180/each with buss bars.

Seems to be several variations of how to purchase.
1. consumer buys direct from China. Small number of cells, higher shipping costs and long wait
2. middle man buys direct from China and makes volume purchase and has shipped to themselves, and then sells them and shipping is paid for again adding to the cost
3. middleman buys direct from China in a quantity purchase to get volume discounts and has China ship direct to consumer as Michael does. This method should be cheapest as you combine volume pricing and direct to consumer shipping.


Some people can't wait or don't want to wait which means a higher price, but for some that is worth it. I think there is a market for those who won't wait.

 

[cargovanconversion]

Just got notified abut shipping and received my FedEx tracking number on Dec 1st. Now the waiting game is on.
Van Williams

 

[GSXR1000]

Just placed my order (Nov. 26) at Xuba for 8 - 3.2V cells 272Ah Lishen LiFePO4 with 16 busbars at $69 each, $198 shipping and $22 CC fee. Total $780 to Florida.
Plan two 4S configurations, each with its own BMS with maximum 240A discharge.
Pina was my contact at Xuba and so far, responsive and correct. Had some issues with the credit card payment at Alibaba; needed the verification process (uploading images of my credit card and ID) befor the CC was accepted.
Now the waiting game is on.
I will update this post as events happen.

Van Williams

what bms are you using? 240a bms?

 

[cargovanconversion]

what bms are you using? 240a bms?

I just ordered the 4S JBD that Overkill sells. Because still had time, before my battery cells arrive, I also got directly from China and saved a bit more. Back to your question, I had two issues to deal with. I have to little space in my van, so I have to split up the battery bank into two units (close together) and the BMS only has peak 120A charge/discharge. To be able to adequately use my induction cooktop, I will create two 4S batteries, each with its own BMS (2x120A = 240A x 12.8V = ~3000W).
Van Williams

 

[GSXR1000]

I just ordered the 4S JBD that Overkill sells. Because still had time, before my battery cells arrive, I also got directly from China and saved a bit more. Back to your question, I had two issues to deal with. I have to little space in my van, so I have to split up the battery bank into two units (close together) and the BMS only has peak 120A charge/discharge. To be able to adequately use my induction cooktop, I will create two 4S batteries, each with its own BMS (2x120A = 240A x 12.8V = ~3000W).
Van Williams

very nice. i ordered the BMS also from china. do you have the software for the phone yet (the app)?

That was my original plan. Only using 1000 watt inverter so no large load there... now my problem is starting my onan 4000.. not sure if that will mess up my BMS.. it surges to 240-280 amps then goes down to 50a when started....
my other ideal is to run one 120a BMS and 4P2S my cells wire the generator control normally (after the BMS) only the starter solenoid strait to battery,

 

[norcal]

Hey - just wondering if you mind sharing link to Alibaba or AliExpress where you purchased the Xuba Lishen LiFePO4. I searched on Alibaba and AliExpress but there seems to be so many vendors selling what seems to be identical - but I prefer ordering from a supplier who someone already purchased for.

Thank you - I truly appreciate it.

 

[Dzl]

Hey - just wondering if you mind sharing link to Alibaba or AliExpress where you purchased the Xuba Lishen LiFePO4. I searched on Alibaba and AliExpress but there seems to be so many vendors selling what seems to be identical - but I prefer ordering from a supplier who someone already purchased for.

Thank you - I truly appreciate it.

There is a rolling group buy for these cells going on (see here) cells are shipped directly to you, the guy organizing acts as kind of a middleman,

If that is not your cup of tea, here are a few of the Alibaba sellers with more established track records with forum members:
Shenzhen Luyuan
Shenzhen Basen
Shenzhen Xuba
Changsha Deligreen
Dongguan Lightning

Below is my assessment:
I (personally) would not go so far as to call any fully 'trusted' (though some would call Luyuan trusted) But they are some of the sellers with more established track records here, and on balance people have had a mostly positive experience with. But it is an opaque and somewhat uncertain market with some risk. It is worth noting, none of the resellers are selling matched cells at this price point and the cells being sold at these prices have a high probability of being grade B cells. For many use cases that is not a deal breaker, and these two factors largely explain why the price is so low.

 

[norcal]

Thank you Dzl!

 

[the_colorist]

I just ordered the 4S JBD that Overkill sells. Because still had time, before my battery cells arrive, I also got directly from China and saved a bit more. Back to your question, I had two issues to deal with. I have to little space in my van, so I have to split up the battery bank into two units (close together) and the BMS only has peak 120A charge/discharge. To be able to adequately use my induction cooktop, I will create two 4S batteries, each with its own BMS (2x120A = 240A x 12.8V = ~3000W).
Van Williams

You may have already considered this and it won't work for your applicatuon but here a couple of thoughts in case this might be useful. Commercially for an EV battery battery this is how it would be done.

A note from the Orion BMS document on Strings, Parallel Cells, and Parallel Strings:




"In the case of cells which are parallel together and then assembled
into a single string, as shown above, the BMS will “see” the two paralleled cells as a sing cell with twice
the capacity and half the internal resistance of a single cell. Since there is a busbar between the two
positive and two negative terminals of the batteries, the voltage of both cells is forced to be equal.

Therefore, monitoring the voltage of either cell will show the same results (less the very negligible
difference in voltage caused by voltage drop on the busbar). In the event that one of the cells develops
a reduced capacity or high resistance (as is typical for aged or failed cells), the stronger cell will take
more of the load and essentially prop up the weaker cell. In that event, the BMS is able to see a
decrease in the overall capacity or an overall increase in resistance. With two cells paralleled together,
a single weak cell can affect the resistance up to 50% and the capacity up to 50%. If three cells are
paralleled, a single bad cell can affect the resistance and capacity of the total paralleled block up to
33% (with four cells paralleled, up to 25%, and so forth). As more cells are paralleled, a single failure
becomes more difficult to detect, but redundancy is also increased since a single cell failure will have
less of an impact on the overall performance of the battery. Cells directly paralleled with each other will
automatically balance each other since they are permanently connected."

In the long run you may find it serves you better to split the bank using the configuration above. That would mean you have a 2P2S in one loaction and a 2P2S configuration in another location. The total would be a 2P4S pack. Make sure you use a large enough cable for the series connection between them (distance x voltage drop). This would use a single BMS.

I realize you do already have the 2X 120A so if you were to consider this, a suggestion would be to use a single BMS and rather than run the loads through it directly, use the output from the BMS to drive a 500A contactor.

You may find overall you're battery bank will perform better. Rather than trying to parallel 2 12V packs. Less is more in this case.

Just a thought......

 

[Stepandwolf]

You may have already considered this and it won't work for your applicatuon but here a couple of thoughts in case this might be useful. Commercially for an EV battery battery this is how it would be done.

A note from the Orion BMS document on Strings, Parallel Cells, and Parallel Strings:

View attachment 29788


"In the case of cells which are parallel together and then assembled
into a single string, as shown above, the BMS will “see” the two paralleled cells as a sing cell with twice
the capacity and half the internal resistance of a single cell. Since there is a busbar between the two
positive and two negative terminals of the batteries, the voltage of both cells is forced to be equal.

Therefore, monitoring the voltage of either cell will show the same results (less the very negligible
difference in voltage caused by voltage drop on the busbar). In the event that one of the cells develops
a reduced capacity or high resistance (as is typical for aged or failed cells), the stronger cell will take
more of the load and essentially prop up the weaker cell. In that event, the BMS is able to see a
decrease in the overall capacity or an overall increase in resistance. With two cells paralleled together,
a single weak cell can affect the resistance up to 50% and the capacity up to 50%. If three cells are
paralleled, a single bad cell can affect the resistance and capacity of the total paralleled block up to
33% (with four cells paralleled, up to 25%, and so forth). As more cells are paralleled, a single failure
becomes more difficult to detect, but redundancy is also increased since a single cell failure will have
less of an impact on the overall performance of the battery. Cells directly paralleled with each other will
automatically balance each other since they are permanently connected."

In the long run you may find it serves you better to split the bank using the configuration above. That would mean you have a 2P2S in one loaction and a 2P2S configuration in another location. The total would be a 2P4S pack. Make sure you use a large enough cable for the series connection between them (distance x voltage drop). This would use a single BMS.

I realize you do already have the 2X 120A so if you were to consider this, a suggestion would be to use a single BMS and rather than run the loads through it directly, use the output from the BMS to drive a 500A contactor.

You may find overall you're battery bank will perform better. Rather than trying to parallel 2 12V packs. Less is more in this case.

Just a thought......

Thanks for providing that information. Another user gave me a different suggestion I would like to bounce off of you guys.

I have 8 of the 272A cells on order. I am currently expecting the leads from my 6-100w panels to come through the TT 8ga wires as 24V for more efficiency and to be sure the 8ga wire is adequate. It was suggested that I create a 4S with one BMS and a separate 4S with a second BMS which would mean all 8 cells are being individually monitored. Then the two sets of 4S would be put in series to create a 24V battery bank.

I would like some confirmation of this setup before I do something stupid.

Thanks!

 

[MadMax03]

But it is an opaque and somewhat uncertain market with some risk.

PLEASE DESCRIBE THIS "RISK"

It is worth noting, none of the resellers are selling matched cells at this price point

LINK TO THIS INFORMATION PLEASE

and the cells being sold at these prices have a high probability of being grade B cells.

MINE ARE QUITE OBVIOUSLY BRAND NEW, PLEASE LINK TO SOURCE

For many use cases that is not a deal breaker, and these two factors largely explain why the price is so low.

WRONG AGAIN, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT VOLUME PRODUCTION MEANS

Where are you getting your information? What's in it for you to try and dissuade potential buyers from doing business with those vendors? This is totally misleading hearsay, and you have no idea what you are talking about, because if you did, you would post sources so as not to discredit yourself.

Your old-school preconceptions of Chinese products are unwarranted in today's modern age, biased, and based on a prejudiced stigma that needs to just die out with the boomer generation. I realize a lot of the members here are probably older, and that's fine, but the world is not the same as it was when you guys were hanging out, hating on the Chinese in the 70's. The business of China is business, and they can easily produce as good, if not much better quality products than the US (especially now, as the US does not, and has not produced shlt for 50 years), and be much, much more competitive in the market with pricing, even with having to ship their stuff half-way around the world.

If you have a problem with Chinese products, take it up with the greedy American corporations who found the lowest Chinese bidder to contract with and fill the order. The Chinese are just doing their job and getting paid. So sick and tired of the older crowd constantly making the connection between "crap" and "Chinese".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Chinese quality or products so long as they AREN'T sourced through your greedy, anti-American, anti-capitalist boomer high school buddies that own and run the corporations that sold out the Americans and gave contracts to the lowest-bidding Chinese manufacturers.

It's old and tired. Time to hang up the nonsensical China-dissing that you started, and let it die.

 

[Dzl]

Wow, I am a little blindsided by your post. Clearly I wrote something unintentionally triggering to you, I thought my post was pretty tame and benign to be honest. I apologize for whatever may have upset, but I honestly can't see what it is. Maybe you feel attacked or misled or just had a horrible day--honestly IDK, but I think its a misunderstanding.

Take a breath or two, reread the comment that upset you, focus on only what is written and try to ignore assumptions and conclusions you may want to jump to that are not in the text. Upon reflection, I hope you will see that you made a lot of impulsive and incorrect assumptions in anger that don't have a lot to do with what is actually written (it happens, none of us are at our best or most clear minded when we are upset).

As to "China Bashing"
Every Single LFP cell is made in China. The good ones. The bad ones. The mediocre ones. Giving an honest and cautious assessment of the grey market has absolutely nothing to do with "China bashing" and has absolutely nothing to do with politics, or even with China or Chinese manufacturing. It is a specific assessment, of a specific segment, of a specific market, for a specific good.

If you reread the post that upset you (the one you are calling "china bashing") you may notice that not only did I not mention China once, I literally provided the person asking with links to 5 vendors...from China... China manufactures top of the line products, China manufactures shit products, and China manufactures everything in between.. But this conversation had nothing to do with that until you made it about that..

Most people that know me here, know that I don't always get things right (often I am wrong), but I do my research pretty thoroughly and am pretty careful and measured about what I say, and differentiating opinion, from assessment, from fact.

Not everyone has to agree with each other or even get along (though I hope in the latter case most of us can), but we do have to be civil and be respectful, and to not project.

 

[Ranchero7]

Snip, snip...

Take a breath or two, reread the comment that upset you, focus on only what is written and try to ignore assumptions and conclusions you may want to jump to that are not in the text. Upon reflection, I hope you will see that you made a lot of impulsive and incorrect assumptions in anger that don't have a lot to do with what is actually written (it happens, none of us are at our best or most clear minded when we are upset).

As to "China Bashing"
Every Single LFP cell is made in China. The good ones. The bad ones. The mediocre ones. Giving an honest and cautious assessment of the grey market has absolutely nothing to do with "China bashing" and has absolutely nothing to do with politics, or even with China or Chinese manufacturing. It is a specific assessment, of a specific segment, of a specific market, for a specific good.

If you reread the post that upset you (the one you are calling "china bashing") you may notice that not only did I not mention China once, I literally provided the person asking with links to 5 vendors...from China... China manufactures top of the line products, China manufactures shit products, and China manufactures everything in between.. But this conversation had nothing to do with that until you made it about that..

^ This. Wow!
MadMax03.....There was no China bashing in Dzi's post. I see a helpful forum moderator giving five sources of batteries that forum members have used (from China!) and suggesting that there is some level of risk in doing business with people sight unseen. When you buy something from eBay, do you not check reputation, ranking comments? There are good sellers and bad sellers. Doing business on Alibaba is exactly the same. And talking about jumping to conclusions and stereotypes: "boomer?" , "you guys were hanging out, hating on the Chinese in the 70's" , "greedy American corporations?" And is the profit motive a bad thing?
Think, Wait. Think some more. Then Type.