danielfp248
Battery researcher
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Zn(II) will not react with hydrogen. You need metallic zinc and high temperature to produce ZnH2 from metallic Zn and hydrogen gas.
My adventures building a DIY Mn/Fe flow battery
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Zn(II) will not react with hydrogen. You need metallic zinc and high temperature to produce ZnH2 from metallic Zn and hydrogen gas.
So what do you think is going on ? I looked at the supporting info but they don't provide any eq's, only quantity's and such.
danielfp248
Battery researcher
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Many things can suppress hydrogen evolution reactions, basically you need additives that will make the reduction of protonated water more kinetically unfavorable. That is, to increase the activation energy of the hydrogen evolution reaction at the electrode. There is a very ample corpus of literature on the subject.
However bear in mind that this is outside the scope of this thread, as I don't want to discuss flow batteries that involve plating here.
Membrion is letting me hang here, so I killed some time... and maybe you missed this one... AquaPIM... (no sulfation) specially developed for aqueous RFB.
newscenter.lbl.gov
Full paper + supplemental
Go With the Flow: Scientists Design Better Batteries for a Renewable Energy Grid
Scientists Design a Better Battery for a Renewable Power Grid
Scientists at Berkeley Lab have designed a battery membrane that could accelerate renewable energy for the electric grid.
newscenter.lbl.gov
Full paper + supplemental
Design Rules for Membranes from Polymers of Intrinsic Microporosity for Crossover-free Aqueous Electrochemical Devices
Placement of amidoxime functionalities within the pores of microporous polymer membranes yields a new family of selective membranes for aqueous electrochemical cells—which we call AquaPIMs. At high pH, where amidoximes are ionized, AquaPIM membranes feature concomitantly high conductivity and...
www.cell.com
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danielfp248
Battery researcher
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2020
- Messages
- 429
Membrion is letting me hang here, so I killed some time... and maybe you missed this one... AquaPIM... (no sulfation) specially developed for aqueous RFB.
Go With the Flow: Scientists Design Better Batteries for a Renewable Energy Grid
Scientists Design a Better Battery for a Renewable Power Grid
Scientists at Berkeley Lab have designed a battery membrane that could accelerate renewable energy for the electric grid.
Full paper + supplemental
Design Rules for Membranes from Polymers of Intrinsic Microporosity for Crossover-free Aqueous Electrochemical Devices
Placement of amidoxime functionalities within the pores of microporous polymer membranes yields a new family of selective membranes for aqueous electrochemical cells—which we call AquaPIMs. At high pH, where amidoximes are ionized, AquaPIM membranes feature concomitantly high conductivity and...www.cell.com
Amidoxime membranes are not any more easily accessible to diy synthesis compared with sulfonated membranes. Another membrane technology that is great but you can neither make nor buy. So really not useful in this context.
To keep the conversation here focused I would like to keep it constrained to only membranes that can either be easily made or readily bought. Membranes that are great but outside of this scope are not of interest to me atm.
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danielfp248
Battery researcher
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Yes, it didn't work out.
danielfp248
Battery researcher
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There is no manganese oxide in this flow battery.
To all who are watching this thread and want to learn about battery's, like me 
. I found a two part walkthrough of electrochemistry and batteries which I found to be both educational and entertaining to watch. I'm not going to lie, some of this stuff need time to mature, but besides that, its very useful and it gives me a better understanding of the fact that designing or "exploring" battery chemistry is both challenging and difficult - with the later referring to longevity and developing secondary type battery's that isn't trying to kill itself.
. I found a two part walkthrough of electrochemistry and batteries which I found to be both educational and entertaining to watch. I'm not going to lie, some of this stuff need time to mature, but besides that, its very useful and it gives me a better understanding of the fact that designing or "exploring" battery chemistry is both challenging and difficult - with the later referring to longevity and developing secondary type battery's that isn't trying to kill itself.Got an update from Membrion today, the team behind developed the ceramic silicon membrane.
So far 3 requests with a 4th pending has been rejected.
The rate of rejection or dismissal from those who develop and produce new and innovative membranes that could benefit the project is staggering. To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
So far 3 requests with a 4th pending has been rejected.
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danielfp248
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This is understandable. When you develop a company like this, you will 100% like to focus on contracts that can guarantee you enough volume, working at the small scale makes little sense from a business perspective for a small company. This is especially the case if the margin per kg of product is small. You have limited staff with limited time, you cannot waste their time on filling up an order of 50 USD for Joe Smith, you need to have them devote their time to the company paying >100K USD for an order.
The ability to order at a retail level only really comes when these companies are making multi-ton quantities and basically some of their big buyers start to resell or people with the sole intent to resell start buying.
Having had this experience in the past, this is a reason why I don't count on anything that I cannot buy retail on websites like aliexpress or ebay.
Changing things from our position is immensely difficult and humanity speak of the need to work together as we are heading for one of our times most impactful change, marching at us relentlessly (climate change), yet we still find time to slow real progress in the name of profit and financial recovery (patents). Individuals might be smart, but humans sure are not. With that being said, I find it difficult to bring support like I wanted and reality is slowly sinking in.
And I wonder about the real life expectancy of the CMI-7000. I wonder if it will fall into a similar "reinvest" situation as with so many other battery chemistry's. Maybe not so strange since so many research papers point out some of these membranes shortcoming. The membrane has nothing to do with your research as you are bound by its performance as I would be if this membrane becomes the only viable option.
I red the other day about the sodium battery's being released these days. Apparently the anode and cathode is based on Prussian blue dye (Natron Energy and CATL et.al.) with an impressive cyclability of 50k but like many other chemistry's its a reinvestment with a calendar life between Li-ion and LFP.
Its interesting how few chemistry's survive a decade, but press on one must
And I wonder about the real life expectancy of the CMI-7000. I wonder if it will fall into a similar "reinvest" situation as with so many other battery chemistry's. Maybe not so strange since so many research papers point out some of these membranes shortcoming. The membrane has nothing to do with your research as you are bound by its performance as I would be if this membrane becomes the only viable option.
I red the other day about the sodium battery's being released these days. Apparently the anode and cathode is based on Prussian blue dye (Natron Energy and CATL et.al.) with an impressive cyclability of 50k but like many other chemistry's its a reinvestment with a calendar life between Li-ion and LFP.
Its interesting how few chemistry's survive a decade, but press on one must
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danielfp248
Battery researcher
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It doesn't work in an acidic environment. Acid hydrolyses cellulose, so the membrane falls apart in a strongly acidic environment. Bear in mind that the carboxylic groups in this membrane also get protonated in acidic environments, so it loses its cation selectivity. This membrane only works in the 6-9 pH range, at most.
The reason why sulfonates are so prevalent is precisely because they remain anionic, even under strongly acidic conditions. Phosphoric acid groups or carboxylic acid groups would be protonated - therefore not provide any selectivity - under these conditions.
That this membrane might become available late in the year or early next year is not a problem as I see it since you in particular need time and I do as well. This might be everything or it might be a dud in regards to the chemistry, its difficult to know beforehand which is something Liam pointed out, which is understandable now.
I have included a translated article and their webpage.
https://cellfion.se
I don't want to politicize this thread, but you have it backward.
The only time humanity makes real progress is when people are motivated. Capitalism provides a great deal of motivation to individuals who can see a reward for their hard work. Socialism works well in families, since parents recognize that youth cannot produce until they are taught properly. Socialism does not scale well at all to cities or nations because the concept of personal reward is vacated, leading everyone to produce as little as possible for the same reward. Profit is not evil, it is the motivation that allows society to progress.
It is simply not feasible for a company to lose money if they expect to remain in business very long. Rent, power, water, materials, and employee pay are real. Which of those would you have them forgo in order to sell you a product below their cost?
