My DIY off-grid Cabin setup in Ontario Canada (24vdc-120vac)

[Steve_S]

Links for products, many of which I use but some I have come across which may be helpful to anyone looking for specific bits.

Suggested Switch: https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/11/41/e-Series
Suggested Terminal Fuse for packs: https://baymarinesupply.com/blue-sea-mrbf-fuse-block.html
Bus Bar with cover: https://baymarinesupply.com/busbars-4-stud-250a.html
BMS "Chargery" with balancer : http://chargery.com/balancer.asp

Serial RS232/485 to Ethernet Converters (some with Modbus, CanBus available too)
Allows interfacing RS232/485 signals from devices by a PC, RaspberryP or other.

Serial Ethernet Converter

shop.usriot.com

Battery Monitor with Hall Sensor:

Digital Tester DC 10~90 V/100A Multifunction Voltage/Current/Capacity/Power/Coulometry/Time Display Panel Meter Monitor Meter

It is a Multifunction Tester/Panel Meter, Current Measurement Range: 0~100 A, Voltage Measurement Range: 10~90 V, It Can measure DC Voltage, Current, Power, Charge and discharge Capacity, time, and other Physical Quantities, Suitable for use in electrical work process parameters voltage, current

www.droking.com

with Shunt (several versions available):

DC Voltmeter Ammeter Panel, Multimeter DC0~100V 200A Digital Meter Wireless Temperature Current Volt KWh Watt Meter Battery coulometer Capacity Power tester

Product Introduction: VAT series is a multi-function meter based on 2.4G wireless data transmission technology. It can measure parameters such as voltage, current, power, charge and discharge capacity, watt-hour, time, and temperature and with over-current protection, under-voltage protection,

www.droking.com

PC Connectable with RS485 +

Electrical Fan, Instrument Transformer from China Manufacturers - NINGBO PEACEFAIR ELECTRONIC TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. page 1.

 

[Steve_S]

Battery Layout & Config post. Reference for whoever wants / needs it.

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Pack layout. (24V / 16 cell long format ) ! NOT OPTIMAL ! only allows for an 8S BMS with paired cells.

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[Cal]

Steve, I know you've been struggling to get low powered disconnect relays or SSR's. Part of the problem is your common inverter/converter dc bus. You now have a one port battery, making it difficult to isolate over voltage disconnect from under voltage disconnect.

A "simple" solution is to ditch half of the inverter/converter combo. Purchase either an inverter or converter that has the ability for a 12V signal to disable the unit. You won't need a disconnect relay (for whichever unit you replace). The design is simpler, more robust and could be cheaper in the long run.

Another option is to contact the manufacturer of the unit to inquire how to disable the inverter or converter separately (at a low-power level) within their enclosure. I'm quite certain this can be achieved. This info has to come from a circuit designer, not tech support.

 

[Steve_S]

Steve, I know you've been struggling to get low powered disconnect relays or SSR's. Part of the problem is your common inverter/converter dc bus. You now have a one port battery, making it difficult to isolate over voltage disconnect from under voltage disconnect.

A "simple" solution is to ditch half of the inverter/converter combo. Purchase either an inverter or converter that has the ability for a 12V signal to disable the unit. You won't need a disconnect relay (for whichever unit you replace). The design is simpler, more robust and could be cheaper in the long run.

Another option is to contact the manufacturer of the unit to inquire how to disable the inverter or converter separately (at a low-power level) within their enclosure. I'm quite certain this can be achieved. This info has to come from a circuit designer, not tech support.

CAL, I run Midnite Classic & Samlex EVO Inverter. I can directly disconnect those with the relay signals. I am NOT about to downgrade from this level of equipment, thanks. Simpler & more robust, not quite. My equipment handles the LVD & HVD just fine without asking a BMS to do it.

 

[Cal]

CAL, I run Midnite Classic & Samlex EVO Inverter. I can directly disconnect those with the relay signals.

Sure you can, but you need power hungry 200A+ relay contacts. You have two of these in series, one for over- the other for under-voltage. Am I missing something? I wouldn't call that a simple, robust design.

 

[Steve_S]

The diagrams here are outdated. Everything will get updated when I am done with the revamp I am doing.
I will be using one TE EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil and a 2ch relay module to handle the and/or situation. The final parts are ordered for all 4 packs.

 

[Craig]

Steve, I know you've been struggling to get low powered disconnect relays or SSR's. Part of the problem is your common inverter/converter dc bus. You now have a one port battery, making it difficult to isolate over voltage disconnect from under voltage disconnect.

A "simple" solution is to ditch half of the inverter/converter combo. Purchase either an inverter or converter that has the ability for a 12V signal to disable the unit. You won't need a disconnect relay (for whichever unit you replace). The design is simpler, more robust and could be cheaper in the long run.

Another option is to contact the manufacturer of the unit to inquire how to disable the inverter or converter separately (at a low-power level) within their enclosure. I'm quite certain this can be achieved. This info has to come from a circuit designer, not tech support.

The samlex can work directly from the Chargery. The only problem is LVD disconnect by BMS turns off the whole unit. But I do not see this as a problem because the charging portion should never let battery get that low. However if fir some reason 1 cell goes bad it will shut down the whole system which I find acceptable.

 

[bdbugbee]

The diagrams here are outdated. Everything will get updated when I am done with the revamp I am doing.
I will be using one TE EV200AAANA Contactor 500A 12~24VDC Coil and a 2ch relay module to handle the and/or situation. The final parts are ordered for all 4 packs.

@Steve_S have you had any issues using the Opti-coupler with your TE EV200AAANA relay? The reason I ask is because I too utilize a 24V bus and use one EV200 as my main BMS cutoff. I was concerned with using the Opti-coupler to drive the EV200 coil with a 24V bus. The Opti-coupler looked to me to be rated for 12V. I went with having the Chargery BMS drive two low power SSRs whose output is then wired in series with the EV200 coil across my 24V bus.

 

[Steve_S]

I have a converter from the 24V to 12V that provides me a 12V source for a few pieces of gear.

 

[Steve_S]

Posts #1 & #2 overhauled & updated to current spec as of December 18,2020.
All images posted as Thumbnails to allow for better full sized images.
Links provided for the various products used to assist others in locating them.

* I am still waiting on a few components for "final" completion. As such there are some things that are "loosely installed" due to this. None of that affects the actual operational configuration.

Hope it helps anyone looking for ideas and parts.
Steve

 

[mmdb]

Nicely done congrats ...just 1 question why did you go 24v instead 48 v

 

[Steve_S]

Nicely done congrats ...just 1 question why did you go 24v instead 48 v

I started this path in 2014 and started buying my solar gear in 2015. Twas a slightly different world for gear then and THAT does sound weird but it is what it is. As I have no 240V or no real high amp draw anything there was little point to it. I can still run a Mig Welder or my Compressor but I leave those beastly creatures to the generator for when I need them. I am quite power frugal, so no need really... Reserve is more important being where I am located.

 

[Jalfred]

I am looking to install a system with an EVO 4024, and I am wondering what breaker box did you use for the AC side 40A and 45A breakers coming into and out of the EVO?

 

[Steve_S]

I am looking to install a system with an EVO 4024, and I am wondering what breaker box did you use for the AC side 40A and 45A breakers coming into and out of the EVO?

QO4L100S - Load center, QO, 1 phase, 4 spaces, 4 circuits, 100A convertible main lugs, NEMA1, surface cover, CSA | Schneider Electric Canada

Schneider Electric Canada. QO4L100S - Load center, QO, 1 phase, 4 spaces, 4 circuits, 100A convertible main lugs, NEMA1, surface cover, CSA.

www.se.com

1, Square-D QO140 40A on the L5:30 line from the generator to Inverter *Charging at 75A draws 22A+/-1A/2500W+/-100W actual.
1, Square-D QO145 45A between the Inverter to the 120VAC Powerhouse Base Panel .

 

[Jalfred]

QO4L100S - Load center, QO, 1 phase, 4 spaces, 4 circuits, 100A convertible main lugs, NEMA1, surface cover, CSA | Schneider Electric Canada

Schneider Electric Canada. QO4L100S - Load center, QO, 1 phase, 4 spaces, 4 circuits, 100A convertible main lugs, NEMA1, surface cover, CSA.

www.se.com

1, Square-D QO140 40A on the L5:30 line from the generator to Inverter *Charging at 75A draws 22A+/-1A/2500W+/-100W actual.
1, Square-D QO145 45A between the Inverter to the 120VAC Powerhouse Base Panel .

I'm pretty new to this. My understanding from what I can gather on the QO4L100S is that it is a load center, that can be used to split one main incoming wire that is connected to the bus bar, which is then split via breakers into smaller circuits. I can't find any photos of the inside of that box, but this is what I gathered from the manual that I found with the unit.

But for the 40 A breaker from generator to inverter and then the 45 A breaker from inverter to AC panel, I want them to be separate circuits not coming off the the same bus bar (right?). So I am imagining that I need something like a Midnite sun baby-box, and just two DIN rail mounted breakers with separate wires coming in and out. But this is different from a QO breaker, from what I can tell.

What am I not understanding here?

 

[Steve_S]

1 box & breaker for the Inverter to Generator, and the same between the inverter & main subpanel. Like in my diagrams at the front of this thread.
The box can be used for either 240V or 120V, no different than any other square-d pony panel/utility box. There's a strip for ground, a strip for negative, and the pos to Main Bus (only using 1 leg for 120V) and out of the bottom of the breaker.

 

[Jalfred]

1 box & breaker for the Inverter to Generator, and the same between the inverter & main subpanel. Like in my diagrams at the front of this thread.
The box can be used for either 240V or 120V, no different than any other square-d pony panel/utility box. There's a strip for ground, a strip for negative, and the pos to Main Bus (only using 1 leg for 120V) and out of the bottom of the breaker.

Ok, that makes sense (I couldn't find the actual boxes in your diagrams, just the breakers themselves).

What is the advantage of using the two load center boxes rather than one Midnite Sun BabyBox with two AC breakers in it?
(http://www.midnitesolar.com/product...e=Breakers&productCat_ID=16&sortOrder=7&act=p)

I see the difference in how the breakers are wired (one via a bus bar and the other directly wired into breakers) but don't understand the advantages of the different setups.

 

[Tony S]

Steve,
Thank you for taking the time to share all this with us. I'll need to keep revisiting this. I get overloaded and somewhat confused.

I wanted to let you know as of 4-24-2022 the following link on your first post is no longer valid.
250A https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Carlin...cuit-Breaker-250a-125vdc-1-Pole-/263891933397

All the best,
Tony

 

[Steve_S]

NOVEMBER 2022 UPDATE

Page 1 Has now been updated to the latest configuration (Version 5) which is most likely the last major update... well at least till next spring anyway ROFLMAO. Due to the size of my battery bank which has grown to @ 1293AH /30.1kWh, I simply do not have enough Solar Panels & Controllers to handle that big of a bank. Having sufficient reserve for the Winter has been a priority even if I have to use the Genset to supplement the charge, "for now". Cash IS Finite ! LOL.

Next upgrade will more than likely see a Midnite Classic 150 added in Parallel with my current 200 (78A), providing another 94A charging capacity. I may also decide to use my Midnite KID SCC for an extra 30A through my Samlex EVO Inverter Solar Port. All totaled that would give me up to 203A of charging power.

Steve

 

[dezfutak]

NOVEMBER 2022 UPDATE

Page 1 Has now been updated to the latest configuration (Version 5) which is most likely the last major update... well at least till next spring anyway ROFLMAO. Due to the size of my battery bank which has grown to @ 1293AH /30.1kWh, I simply do not have enough Solar Panels & Controllers to handle that big of a bank. Having sufficient reserve for the Winter has been a priority even if I have to use the Genset to supplement the charge, "for now". Cash IS Finite ! LOL.

Next upgrade will more than likely see a Midnite Classic 150 added in Parallel with my current 200 (78A), providing another 94A charging capacity. I may also decide to use my Midnite KID SCC for an extra 30A through my Samlex EVO Inverter Solar Port. All totaled that would give me up to 203A of charging power.

Steve

Is there room for more ground-mount panels?