My EG4 6500EX Exploded on restart!!!!!

[xtrorion]

Don't wait keep trying.

email is not working, I assume you mean by calling them? Anyway to get support in this Forum?

 

[B-Mod]

Calling is probably fastest. There are a few SS guys on here. James, Ben, and probably a few others.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

skipping all the drama... buy a victron, a midnight solar, a magnum, a morningstar, a Schneider, a xtant (however you spell it) etc. everybody with these chinese inverters encounters problems and its one post after another trying to figure out why you have no power. buy a top tier and be done with it. you waste more time and money trying to figure out why a 1200 USD inverter does not stack up against a 2400 USD inverter of the same rating...

 

[xtrorion]

skipping all the drama... buy a victron, a midnight solar, a magnum, a morningstar, a Schneider, a xtant (however you spell it) etc. everybody with these chinese inverters encounters problems and its one post after another trying to figure out why you have no power. buy a top tier and be done with it. you waste more time and money trying to figure out why a 1200 USD inverter does not stack up against a 2400 USD inverter of the same rating...

Well, I hear what you are saying but if you think you can buy a victron system with split phase and a capacity of 13kw for $4800, please provide the link!!!!! and I will spring for the MPPT!

 

[PreppenWolf]

@SignatureSolarJames

 

[xtrorion]

@SignatureSolarJames

HELP!!!!! SOS!!!!

 

[Quattrohead]

Just talk to sales instead and tell them you want to take advantage of their trade in/credit offer, you'll probably get a faster resolution with sales than support unfortunately.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Well, I hear what you are saying but if you think you can buy a victron system with split phase and a capacity of 13kw for $4800, please provide the link!!!!! and I will spring for the MPPT!

prices i quoted were averages from about 5 or 6 years ago. i understand that prices have all skyrocketed, even the chinesium inverters have went up. but you would think that if its really that important you would simply go with the quality route to begin with. buyers remorse for low priced items is just as real as buyers remorse for high priced items... the difference is when you pay a lot you expect a lot and the companies in order to justify their hgiher costs do a lot.

 

[Supervstech]

Um… you have positive on the left on the left inverter, and positive on the right on the right inverter… at lease the red and black cables are reversed…

 

[RV10flyer]

I had a very similar experience with my 6500EX a few months back. Reached out to Signature Solar to start the RMA process and have been getting the run around ever since! My 6550EX fried overnight (didn't hear any loud boom) but SS is trying to pin this on me. Absolutely no help at all. They want me to send it back to them and charge me for repair. What kind of service is that?!

I'm moving on to Solark, whom I hear actually supports their products.

I’ve been running two SolArk12K’s for a year and a half totally off grid- 17 MWh produced last year alone. Other than minor glitches, mostly my fault, they have left me without power about three or four times for two minutes each. Had one doa dongle. SA made it right quickly.

Our pizpoor power co left us without power at least 5-7 days per year, plus charged us for about 500 kWh a month more than what we are using with SolArks, then added a bunch of taxes on top of that.

I decided to buy two 6500ex’s for my shop, just for comparison purposes. SS sent me one, then tried to say they sent me the other one, but did not. The other small box was circuit breakers, but shipping had put the weight down as if that little box could hold a 6500ex. Needless to say, that was my first and last purchase from SS. I tested them both okay when I received them. Just getting that install finished and ready for start up very soon.

If I have any major issues I will either order Victron or more SolArks and have them swapped out in a week. Then I’ll send the 6500ex in for repair and keep as a third system. I don’t want issues with my power and if I do, I wanna company that’s gonna stand behind their products and not give me the runaround or try to blame me for their low quality junk that they sell.

 

[RV10flyer]

Um… you have positive on the left on the left inverter, and positive on the right on the right inverter… at lease the red and black cables are reversed…

They both look correct to me, pos is on the left. Same as mine.

 

[Supervstech]

They both look correct to me, pos is on the left. Same as mine.

Yup, the angle of the picture made it appear that way.
My mistake.

 

[xtrorion]

Thanks to this forum, this issue got attention with signature solar and I now have an appointment with a support person. Hopefully it will be roses? and rainbows ? from here . Yes, there are some issues with support, but I have to believe they do have people that are trying and perhaps just over loaded...(benefit of the doubt). I will give an honest assessment on how this goes.

 

[xtrorion]

So, on Aug 9th, I received an email from a SS tech to schedule an investigative/trouble shooting session. He was very accommodating of my schedule, and we set it up for Thursday afternoon Aug 10th. In advance, I shared my post. When we meet, he had a few more questions, but mostly because there were some changes since the post with Inverter 2. I shared honestly all the info I had, including that as of that day, I got inverter 2 back working even with the grid power hooked back up (no idea why, or how, but it was indeed working again). I also shared my experience with the setting changing on there own, and being unable to be changed by me on both inverters, including inverter 2 trying to get it back in stand alone mode (I was succesful on night 4). The error 5 I was getting was no longer duplicatable after it had been running on solar and battery only for the past week. (I had inconsistency, but that is a fact I shared). He agreed Inverter 1 was fried.....and escalated that the past issues with the now working inverter 2 to his management team. This was fair, since it was now working...I get it. What I received later that evening was a letter from the Resolution team confirming they are returning both inverters. I know this is a form letter, so I don't mind sharing.

Hello,

My name is Chris, and I am a Resolution Specialist at Signature Solar. Thank you for your time and patience throughout this process! Our team has reviewed your ticket information and we see that you're experiencing issues with your 2x EG4 6.5kW Off-Grid Inverter | 6500EX-48 | 6500W Output | 8000W PV Input | 500V VOC Input | UL 1741 Certified | All in One Solar Inverter. We would like to return these inverters to our facility for further testing and provide replacements.
Your ticket information has been forwarded to our RMA team so they may begin their next steps in the return process. Please ensure that all the cables and components that came with the unit are returned with the unit. Additional charges may be applied if all original components/cables are not returned. The RMA team will reach out via email with return shipping information. This information may be lost in your spam or junk folder if not in your inbox. Please let us know once the units are shipped. Once we receive and process the units, we will ship the replacement right away! Please let us know if you have any questions and thank you very much for your support!

--
Resolution Team
Signature Solar LLC
1130 Como St South
Sulphur Springs, TX 75482
903-441-2090


Other than the initial lack of response, I don't think I can expect any more thus far. I will let everyone know how it goes with the Resolution Team and if there are any opportunities to upgrade.....

 

[RV10flyer]

I waited 5-6 minutes for Nick today. My only time calling tech support. He answered my question quickly about Setting #28. Hooked up some PV, so that it would remain in Standby mode, made the change and now it’s producing 240V instead of 207V. Very nice to see they have been working on tech support and customer service! I may actually buy something again someday.

 

[xtrorion]

Just wanted to provide a quick update. Other than long wait times when calling and some confusion as to how I would know if the return was approved after being received back, everyone I have talk to at SS has been very friendly and helpful. Long story short, both Inverters were returned and store credit granted. I then used that credit to purchase the 18K PV which should be arriving today. Thanks for everyone's feedback and help.

 

[xtrorion]

I will start another thread with the details, but let me just say WOW...the 18k PV is Awesome (yes there are some things you should be aware of, and different from the 6500's). I also want to thank @Markus_EG4. I did the commissioning on my own (which is not their standard practice) and when I ran into an issue and asked a question on the forum, he immediately jumped in (on the weekend) and helped resolve my issues. Again, more to come in a new thread, but right now I would say 9 out of 10 starts.....what a difference! Its in a whole new league and well worth the investment.

 

[chm]

I see that F05 is “output short circuited”. For the inverter that you can get to turn on, can you turn off the AC Out breaker and see if you still get the error?

 

[chm]

I see that F05 is “output short circuited”. For the inverter that you can get to turn on, can you turn off the AC Out breaker and see if you still get the error?

 

[xtrorion]

That was done with same result...the short was internal to the unit...anyway, old news....

 

[RCinFLA]

If you remove AC input from grid it takes a few seconds for inverter to recognize AC input has gone open circuit.

During this period the pass-through relay remains closed with inverter AC output showing on inverter AC input terminals and the inverter starts to drift off frequency and phase from grid which is not providing phase sync mastering for inverters.

Inverter will recognize when AC input is open when it drifts too far off frequency or it lacks getting phase corrections from AC input sinewave zero crossings for some period of time.

If you reapply AC input before pass-through relay has released, you will likely get a 'boom' due to inverter still connected via pass-through relay to AC input terminals and inverter is now out of AC phase with grid. It is like you applied grid to AC output of inverter, which is the error code you got.

Normal AC input connect process is with pass-through relay open, the inverter slowly syncs to AC input phase and voltage. After achieving AC input match it closes pass-through relay putting inverter output in parallel with AC input. AC input is phase and voltage master for inverter.

Whenever pass-through relay is closed, inverter is slave to AC input. Whenever pass-through relay is open the inverter is its own master.

If you are running inverters as series stacked 240/120vac configuration, they are slave to their respective L1 or L2 AC input phase when AC input is present.

When no AC input is present, one inverter becomes 180 deg phase reference master for other unit.

AC inputs for split phase should be fed via a double pole AC input breaker so both inverters get AC input simultaneously and simultaneously get disconnected from AC input when breaker is opened.

All this is also why you should not use an automatic transfer switch on AC input of inverter to switch between generator and grid. You must ensure inverter's pass-through relay is open before changing AC input source.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

so basically buy a magnum, an outback or a similar tier one product and stop complaining about Chinese junk

 

[fmeili1]

If you reapply AC input before pass-through relay has released, you will likely get a 'boom' due to inverter still connected via pass-through relay to AC input terminals and inverter is now out of AC phase with grid. It is like you applied grid to AC output of inverter, which is the error code you got.

That's a very important new information for me!

I didn't expect that the inverter can't handle a short timed AC-in grid connect/disconnect situation. In case when AC-in is permanently connected to the grid and the grid will have an outage with short on/off fluctuations (which happens sometimes), the AIO's would be in risk to "explode" because of that. In my opinion, this would be a dangerous design flaw!

AC inputs for split phase should be fed via a double pole AC input breaker so both inverters get AC input simultaneously and simultaneously get disconnected from AC input when breaker is opened.

All this is also why you should not use an automatic transfer switch on AC input of inverter to switch between generator and grid. You must ensure inverter's pass-through relay is open before changing AC input source.

Beside the (manual) double pole AC-in breakers (together with an AC-in main breaker) I also placed contactors to connect all AC-in's to the grid for all AIO's only in case AC-in (grid) is really required if batteries are nearly empty and no solar. I control the contactors via smart home rules depending on data getting from SolarAssistant via MQTT. It would be easy for me to implement a delay for this contactor rule to prevent the "boom" situation because of to fast AC-in switching.
What do you think would be a safe delay between disconnecting the AC-in from the grid before a new connecting may occur?

I only want to connect the AC-in to the grid when I really need it is to not use grid energy at all with typical usage (enough battery and solar). I found out that each AIO consumes about 50W from the grid (about half of it's idle consumption) if just connected to the grid even if not used! Because I'm running 6 of these EG4-6500EX in parallel, it would cost me 300W permanent grid usage without needing it (I may need the grid only about 3-5 days per year for maybe 1-3 hours on these days here in the desert and I don't want to waste >2,600kWh per year from the grid just to be connected to it).

 

[RCinFLA]

It is common issue on all grid interactive inverters.

One of the toughest things for hybrid inverter to detect is an opening of AC input circuit. Voltage detection is of no use since with pass-through relay closed the inverter will present its AC output voltage on AC input terminals. It has to detect open AC input by AC input current or lack of AC phase sync mastering of inverter from AC input.

You can have a normal situation of zero AC input current so AC input current alone cannot be relied on and just zero AC input current situation will not cause inverter to release pass-through relay. One way for inverter to test for legitimate grid is to wiggle the inverter phasing a little which should push against the immovable grid phasing causing small detectable AC current from inverter as it tries to wiggle its phasing against grid phase.

Problem is the inverter, lacking a controlling master for phase sync will wander off frequency/phase. If you re-connect AC input too quickly before inverter recognizes loss of AC input in open circuit configuration and has not yet released its pass-through relay connection, there will be an AC phasing clash between AC input and inverter that will draw high surge current on inverter.

HF inverters are more vulnerable than LF inverters to this.

Worse case results for a HF inverter IGBT PWM output H-bridge transistors. Exploding IGBT's describes it pretty well.

 

[740GLE]

If you remove AC input from grid it takes a few seconds for inverter to recognize AC input has gone open circuit.

During this period the pass-through relay remains closed with inverter AC output showing on inverter AC input terminals and the inverter starts to drift off frequency and phase from grid which is not providing phase sync mastering for inverters.

Inverter will recognize when AC input is open when it drifts too far off frequency or it lacks getting phase corrections from AC input sinewave zero crossings for some period of time.

If you reapply AC input before pass-through relay has released, you will likely get a 'boom' due to inverter still connected via pass-through relay to AC input terminals and inverter is now out of AC phase with grid. It is like you applied grid to AC output of inverter, which is the error code you got.

Normal AC input connect process is with pass-through relay open, the inverter slowly syncs to AC input phase and voltage. After achieving AC input match it closes pass-through relay putting inverter output in parallel with AC input. AC input is phase and voltage master for inverter.

Whenever pass-through relay is closed, inverter is slave to AC input. Whenever pass-through relay is open the inverter is its own master.

If you are running inverters as series stacked 240/120vac configuration, they are slave to their respective L1 or L2 AC input phase when AC input is present.

When no AC input is present, one inverter becomes 180 deg phase reference master for other unit.

AC inputs for split phase should be fed via a double pole AC input breaker so both inverters get AC input simultaneously and simultaneously get disconnected from AC input when breaker is opened.

All this is also why you should not use an automatic transfer switch on AC input of inverter to switch between generator and grid. You must ensure inverter's pass-through relay is open before changing AC input source.

So let’s say your grid connection has various protection devices (reclosers or sectionalizing loop auto switches) such that gird can be lost for 1-2 seconds then be restored multiple times over the course of say 5 min? During a storm I can count the reclosings of my circuit knowing that if we hit that 4th time it’ll be lights out.

So basically these shouldn’t be used a UPS?