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My power bill is jumping in Oct…

Demand tariffs are unfortunately confusing for many consumers. They have been a feature of industrial and commercial billing for a long time and are now creeping into residential billing.

Personally I see no real need for them when time of use tariffs are just as effective as a price signal for encouraging household consumption away from peak periods and onto off-peak periods. This is a concept most households understand. Demand tariffs not so much.

Usually as a quid pro quo demand tariffs are accompanied with a lower energy consumption tariff, or a reduced peak period consumption tariff.

The issue for utilities is the cost of networks (the transformers, poles and wires etc) is very much a function of the peak power demand. The higher the peak demand, the beefier the network infrastructure needs to be. If peak demand can be reduced, then capex on upgrading the power supply capacity can be avoided or delayed, and this has very real cost of operation implications.

As to demand tariffs though, forgive the "mansplaining"...

We are mostly used to the following sort of electricity charges:

- a fixed service fee, often a fixed daily or monthly charge. In some cases this might also cover a basic amount of energy supply.
- an energy consumption charge, expressed as $ per kWh consumed (imported from the grid).
- sometimes the energy consumption charges are billed on a time of use basis, with the $ per kWh rate varying depending on time of day, day of week and sometimes they can vary with seasons as well.
- credits for exporting energy to the grid, generally also expressed as $ per kWh (this may be at a different rate to the energy import tariff).

There might be other charges and variations on a theme but the above are the ones most are familiar with.

Then there is a demand tariff.

This is billed on your peak demand, being
i. based on the maximal average power for an interval, during the
ii. peak demand window, for
iii. the billing period.

Parsing that out:

i. Maximal average power for an interval:

An interval might be an hour, a half-hour or 15 minutes (or whatever it is defined to be in your region). It will be on the hour, half-hour or quarter-hour, e.g. 5:30-6:00 PM and not 5:37-6:07 PM.

The duration of the interval depends on the type of metering used in the region amongst other things. In my location it is based on half-hour intervals but it sounds like in the OP's region it is hourly intervals.

The important thing is demand is a power value, not an energy value.

Obviously if the interval used is an hour, then numerically the power and energy values are the same. e.g. if you consume 5 kWh during an hour, then the average power consumed during that hour is 5 kW.

But if the interval used for calculating peak demand is say 30-minutes (like it is in many states in Australia) then if during a half-hour interval you consumed 2.8 kWh of grid energy, the demand for that half hour is 2.8 kWh / 0.5 hours = 5.6 kW.

The maximal part is just picking the one maximum power value out of all the intervals.

ii. Peak demand window
Often these interval calculations only apply during specific time periods, which might typically be from some time in the afternoon through to the evening. Each utility region will have their peak demand window defined, e.g. 4PM to 8PM on weekdays. There will be many variations on how these windows are defined. So if for instance using this example you had a peak demand of 6 kW during 2-3AM and 4 kW during 6-7PM on a Tuesday, then the 6 kW demand does not count as it was outside the peak demand window. In this case the 4 kW value applies.

iii. During the billing period
Typically monthly but in some cases quarterly (even so the demand charge may still be shown as three separate monthly charges).
What this means is the peak demand is the maximum average power from one interval (within the peak demand window) during the month.

The demand tariff itself is usually expressed as $ per kW per month*.

In some places (like here) they confuse people even more by expressing the tariff as $ per kW per day, but then multiply it by the number of days in the billing period.

So by way of example:

Let's say the demand tariff is based on hour long intervals and applies to the 4PM-8PM window every day. The tariff is $13/kW/month.

Let's also say your maximum grid energy consumption for a one hour interval during the 4-8PM window for that month was 5.7 kWh. The peak demand is therefore 5.7 kWh / 1 hour = 5.7 kW.

The peak demand charge would then be 5.7 kW x $13/kW/month = $74.10 for the month.

While my own billing does not have a demand tariff, the option exists if I wish to move to a demand tariff type. Accordingly I do keep a track of our monthly peak demand and what the billing impact would be.

This is what our monthly peak demand has looked like over the past year and a bit:
Screen Shot 2024-08-26 at 7.09.36 am.png

* I had originally incorrectly typed $ per kWh per month.
 
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If all the homes in the area have their own power system to supply the peak during 3-6pm, then everyone "wins"
Yes and no, well, kinda, sorta, maybe.

If "all the homes" go to batteries to offset the peak usage, and then charge the batteries off peak, then the "off peak" times will become the new "peak times". It takes a balance. Enough people have to stay on the old peaks, for them to remain the peaks.

It'd end up being a constant game of "whack-a-mole" as they announce new peak times, and homeowners update when their batteries charge and discharge.. Until they get tired of it, and start charging from solar instead of grid.
 
Some have mentioned the use of batteries to reduce peak demand. This strategy has merit, provided the battery will always have enough energy stored to cover the peak demand window every day.

If the battery is reliant on solar PV for charging, and you have a poor solar production day, then the battery may not have enough energy stored to reduce peak demand that evening and so you end up consuming grid power. Since the peak demand calculation is based on just one interval for the month, it only takes one evening of higher grid consumption to incur a greater demand charge for the month.

In such instances charging from grid power earlier in the day may be preferable, much depends on the tariffs applicable. But a method of ensuring peak demand is avoided every day is required. Batteries may not always achieve this aim.

Certainly this is the case for us as not all of our household demand is covered by our off-grid battery. e.g. our ducted aircon is grid powered only.

Other strategies of course are to move discretionary loads outside of the peak demand window.
 
Demand tariffs are unfortunately confusing for many consumers. They have been a feature of industrial and commercial billing for a long time and are now creeping into residential billing.

...
Thanks for the explanation. It is better than my thinking but still bad since the OP's amount of $13/kW is a big chunk of change for a lot of consumers when a peak demand hour could easily be 2-5kWh (Or kW as demand) $26-$65 would be a major bump up in the monthly Bill.
 
Yes and no, well, kinda, sorta, maybe.

If "all the homes" go to batteries to offset the peak usage, and then charge the batteries off peak, then the "off peak" times will become the new "peak times". It takes a balance. Enough people have to stay on the old peaks, for them to remain the peaks.

It'd end up being a constant game of "whack-a-mole" as they announce new peak times, and homeowners update when their batteries charge and discharge.. Until they get tired of it, and start charging from solar instead of grid.
not if all the homes were charging at 1.5kW steady per hour 24 hours per day - ie no solar just batteries and inverters.
all homes charge at a steady (low) rate 24 hours a day - so the utility has a steady load to supply instead of peaks twice per day with waste between.
It will never happen - just pointing out the level of excess in the system to have 48kW services to home that use on average 1.5-2.0 kw per hour. Lots of room for improvement.
 
Some have mentioned the use of batteries to reduce peak demand. This strategy has merit, provided the battery will always have enough energy stored to cover the peak demand window every day.

If the battery is reliant on solar PV for charging, and you have a poor solar production day, then the battery may not have enough energy stored to reduce peak demand that evening and so you end up consuming grid power. Since the peak demand calculation is based on just one interval for the month, it only takes one evening of higher grid consumption to incur a greater demand charge for the month.

In such instances charging from grid power earlier in the day may be preferable, much depends on the tariffs applicable. But a method of ensuring peak demand is avoided every day is required. Batteries may not always achieve this aim.

Certainly this is the case for us as not all of our household demand is covered by our off-grid battery. e.g. our ducted aircon is grid powered only.

Other strategies of course are to move discretionary loads outside of the peak demand window.
Modern hybrid inverters can be setup to ensure you go into peak hours with a full battery
 
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If you have the standard battery + PV setup that most of us have evening demand charges are already taken care of, ateast for me. Solar provides all the loads during the day and puts charge in the batteries, some days more than others. Unless the battery didn't get any charge I'm running off the battery, at least until it hits my minimum. At that point I run from the grid.

Mornings would be more of an issue. I would have to set up some timers on the system to not drain the battery below a much higher level (60%?) during evening and night and then change the battery min for the morning so I'm running off the battery.
 
Rather hard for me to get what that means. Does not parse. It would make me think that anything that turns on during peak load times would be charged $13 per kW tacked onto the normal kWh charge for the highest use hour over the month during utility peak times. So if over that hour you averaged 2kWh as highest use but you had loads that peaked at 10kW you would see a $130 tacked onto your Bill at the end of the month.

Peak demand is peak demand. You demanded it for the loads at one point in time, then you pay up. However using your demand over one hour during peak, the charge would be based on 2Kw so $26. It is the highest usage in one hour during peak.
If this is the case that would be a disaster for many folks.
Back in my younger days I attended many a wedding reception/dance at the local municipal hall which was run by the local American Legion in a partnership. Air conditioning was added and the meter was a demand meter. The Legion commander told me for 2 Saturday's a month with the AC running was $450/month due to the demand charges. Some of that would have been during peak and thus why the high charges. These were two 4 ton units. I think by 10 pm the AC was turned off as everyone had enough liquor and beer that they didn't notice.

If you don't want to pay a high demand fee, then ensure usage is cut to a minimum during peak hours. Not hard in a household- no laundry, no dishwasher, use a programmable thermostat, electric water heater on a timer and no electric oven.
 
I added another 14 panels (well, 7 online and 7 more coming online over the next two days), bringing my total to 34 and hitting around 16kW.

All of this to hedge the rates that will likely double again like they did last year.
 
If they’re part of a coop, time to vote the board out and install new ones. Maybe the poorest people they can find.
I used to live in a town with a bunch of older people and those older people sat on the city council. The infrastructure was allowed to deteriorate over the years as "they didn't want to spend any money or raise fees".

All that did was push the needed infrastructure costs to future generations. The younger people. The younger people will be paying now high rates for a very long time. The average city bill for water, sewer and garbage for a house of 2 people is now over $250/month due to having to update so much at one time and having to pay interest on that money (debt). I'm glad I left when I did, I think it is insane but the real problem was "voting people out". We had a veterinarian who attended the council meetings after being voted out after serving a few terms. I remember attending the council meetings and he told them for years they needed to add a surcharge to sewer bills as a new treatment plant would be needed down the road and this way there would be money for it. They ignored him, then when the state cracked down and started to impose fines for non compliance, the city had to borrow the money to build a new plant plus was forced to use activated sludge and not a lagoon due to "not spending money" to purchase land suitable for a lagoon. They thought they could just use eminent domain to acquire the property, the property owner gifted it to the county conservation corps in his will and thus no eminent domain could occur and the CCC wasn't selling either and couldn't. It was part of the "gift" it could not be sold.

A budget is set by a governing body for a reason and should include not only maintenance but also improvements to future infrastructure. Have small increases over time, not huge expenses mandated by current situations due to a lack of investment.

I'm tight with money, but I'm not an idiot when it comes to long term planning of infrastructure costs.
 
Thanks for the explanation. It is better than my thinking but still bad since the OP's amount of $13/kW is a big chunk of change for a lot of consumers when a peak demand hour could easily be 2-5kWh (Or kW as demand) $26-$65 would be a major bump up in the monthly Bill.
In general the per kWh consumption tariff is lower on demand tariff plans, especially during off-peak periods.

The demand charge is an alternative to higher time of use peak period consumption tariffs. If the original plan was a flat rate consumption tariff, then the new plan may have a slightly higher peak period consumption tariff but lower off-peak consumption tariff.

IOW don't run the dishwasher right after dinner. Set the timer so that it runs during off-peak. Make sure any electric water heating occurs during off peak times. And so on. Anything which can be run at a time other than the peak period should be rescheduled.

e.g. if I compare the two tariff options for one retailer here, this is the difference between the tariff on the TOU plan and the demand plan:

Tariff Type: ______ TOU ____ Demand (Unit)
Peak TOU: ________ 41.74 ____ 34.41 (c/kWh)
Shoulder TOU: ____ 34.41 ____ 28.38 (c/kWh)
Off-Peak TOU: ____ 26.93 ____ 25.30 (c/kWh)
Daily Service: __ 145.40 ___ 145.40 (c/day)
Demand Charge: ____ 0.00 ____ 17.11 (c/kW/day)


In our case the demand charge is still a monthly charge and the peak demand calculated, it's just a daily rate multiplied by the number of days in the month.

So you can either have higher TOU rates, or lower rates + a demand charge. If you have an old analogue meter, the there are no TOU or demand charges, just a flat rate tariff. In this case the equivalent flat rates would be 34.41 c/kWh, and the daily charge the same. Those old meters are all being replaced, the last of them by 2030. If you add grid-tied solar PV then a meter upgrade is compulsory.
 
Modern hybrid inverters can be setup to ensure you go into peak hours with a full battery
Yes, there are various possibilities. Not all are quite as capable and of course there is some level of prediction required to determine what, if any, supplemental charging a battery might require and how much. Predicting both expected peak period demand and available excess PV supply that day is not always straightforward.

Then of course you can layer onto that home automation so that discretionary loads self-manage avoiding peak period consumption as well as maximising self consumption of solar PV, or are timed to use off-peak grid energy.

It's an optimisation problem. e.g. there's no point importing grid energy to charge up a battery if you are not going to be at home that evening to consume it, especially if the next day is going to be nice and sunny. You can of course just brute force it, always charge up no matter what.

The solutions are many and varied and which options make sense will naturally vary depending on the location, each home's individual supply and demand characteristics and the tariff plans in play.

But as a general principle, utilities are moving to consumer tariff structures which are, at least in part, more reflective of the underlying costs, and peak network demand is a key factor for determining those costs.
 
If they do this in good faith I will work with them, if this is just the start of a bunch of suits playing head games with the common man , I will turn the whole elect acct off and tell em where to stick it..

They may pull this crap in calif ….they may do it in other liberal places ..and people may accept a boot on their neck in those places ….but I will have no part of it…

YES….The grid is a nice thing to have as back up…and ocassional use , but I won’t play their games.
I have plenty of alternatives if pushed…A man has to live with himself , ya know…
 
Yes, there are various possibilities. Not all are quite as capable and of course there is some level of prediction required to determine what, if any, supplemental charging a battery might require and how much. Predicting both expected peak period demand and available excess PV supply that day is not always straightforward.

Ideally pv would charge up the battery before demand charge period. Pv is quite.l00 inexpensive nowadays.

Let's say demand starts at 4pm , with a modern hybrid you could set tou to charge the battery from 3pm to 3:59pm. Or whatever numbers make sense. You could even tell it at what soc to stop charging.
Then of course you can layer onto that home automation so that discretionary loads self-manage avoiding peak period consumption as well as maximising self consumption of solar PV, or are timed to use off-peak grid energy.

I haven't seen good ways to do automation for water heater, range, clothes dryer etc. it seems to be a manual thing so far.
It's an optimisation problem. e.g. there's no point importing grid energy to charge up a battery if you are not going to be at home that evening to consume it, especially if the next day is going to be nice and sunny. You can of course just brute force it, always charge up no matter what.

Just charging it up enough to get through the demand hours should suffice
The solutions are many and varied and which options make sense will naturally vary depending on the location, each home's individual supply and demand characteristics and the tariff plans in play.

But as a general principle, utilities are moving to consumer tariff structures which are, at least in part, more reflective of the underlying costs, and peak network demand is a key factor for determining those costs.
 
Reading all this makes me happy I pay a monthly $12 service fee plus 14.something cents per kWh regardless of when I use it.
Haaaa yer in good shape…he he he… dont raise no ruckus and let it roll…
 
It's criminal what utilities are doing. Demand charges and time of use rates structures seem to be designed to just confuse folks.

I recently heard that Arkansas has eliminated net metering for future installations. Existing ones are grandfathered until 2040.
And the existing Net Metering wasn’t that good to begin with. Something like a monthly credit, use it or lose it.

I said fuhgeddaboudit to the power company (wish they would remove that ugly pole with a transformer on it from my front yard).

I’m going totally Off-Grid. Only $20/month for garbage collection. No other utilities.
 
And the existing Net Metering wasn’t that good to begin with. Something like a monthly credit, use it or lose it.

I said fuhgeddaboudit to the power company (wish they would remove that ugly pole with a transformer on it from my front yard).

I’m going totally Off-Grid. Only $20/month for garbage collection. No other utilities.
BRAVO MAN….. will do the same this next year ..except I won’t have a trash fee ,as I have to take it to the trash place once a week in my truck…….it’s fun …get to talk to the trash men about their perspective on things…they are good people who just didn’t get a step up in life at the right time..
Or maybe he did and just blew it… either way good guys..
 
And the existing Net Metering wasn’t that good to begin with. Something like a monthly credit, use it or lose it.

I said fuhgeddaboudit to the power company (wish they would remove that ugly pole with a transformer on it from my front yard).

I’m going totally Off-Grid. Only $20/month for garbage collection. No other utilities.
I was under the impression it was at least a 1 for 1 until the end of the month which was then carried fwd. as a whole price of the equivalent kWh's. That's actually not that bad. EG: 100 kWh got carried fwd. as 100 x 3 cents = $3. That's what I currently have in MO on a COOP. For how much longer???

Now any excess at that moment will immediately go into the wholesale bucket. EG: Solar is making 10kW, house is using 2kW. 8kW is being credited at wholesale. You don't even get chance to get the extra from that same day back at night. That will be terrible.

Of course the best would be 1 for 1 with an annual true up. All of that excess in the spring and fall can be use to carry you through winter. I can't imagine we will ever see another one of those and I'm sure what few are remaining will soon be gone.

$28/month base fee for me. $336/year just to have them. I've got plenty of solar and battery to get me through 10 months of the year but the batteries and solar to get me through those two months would cost me way more than 10 years of base fees. Don't get me wrong, it's occurred to me.
 

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