My power bill is jumping in Oct…

[SunDave]

I'm not sure why there is so much confusion on this and replies?

click on the link -->> it is clear in the link for your provider <<-- I posted #4 in this thread. Again, here you go:

Cut and paste from your utilities web page on this exact concern:

"The peak charge of $13 per kilowatt is for the single highest hour of consumption during peak times on one single day per billing cycle, not every day."

The most with be an increase of $13 for each billing period, that's it

Hi Solar Guppy,
I think this is why most people hate the billing games. Your bottom line info is not correct either. If it was, it would not say $13 per kilowatt. Right? Am I missing something? My best guess is that if you used say 6kW during your highest day of the month, during the 3 hour window, then your peak time fee is 6x$13, or $78.

Hell, I could be wrong too But I don't think I am too far off. They have an energy calculator on their website that says if you have a peak hour usage of 6kW during ANY of the 3 hour windows, your new bill is 163.22, vs. the "old" rate of 105.87

I then changed it to 12kW peak for an example, and it went up $79. So it seems pretty clear. It's just an additional charge tacked on there. And not minor at all unless you watch what you are doing. Running AC, laundry, cooking, pool heaters, or anything of that nature during those 3 hours will be a big slap on the wrist.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Hi Solar Guppy,
I think this is why most people hate the billing games. Your bottom line info is not correct either. If it was, it would not say $13 per kilowatt. Right? Am I missing something? My best guess is that if you used say 6kW during your highest day of the month, during the 3 hour window, then your peak time fee is 6x$13, or $78.

I see what your saying, most appliances don't have a 100% duty cycle, but yes more than 1 kWh in an hour of time for those 3 hours daily windows in the peak cooling or heating windows is certainly possible if not guarantied as most residential customers have never had to think about time of day pricing.

This has been common in commercial / industrial for decades and the Coop is just a commercial customer of another utility. The ones that run the Coop are likely hating their jobs right now and have no options.

 

[Brucey]

I'm not sure why there is so much confusion on this and replies?

click on the link -->> it is clear in the link for your provider <<-- I posted #4 in this thread. Again, here you go:

Cut and paste from your utilities web page on this exact concern:

"The peak charge of $13 per kilowatt is for the single highest hour of consumption during peak times on one single day per billing cycle, not every day."

The most with be an increase of $13 for each billing period, that's it

An increase of $13 multiplied by the highest kW during the peak period throughout the month (90 hours of peak in 30 days). So if you had a situation where you had 10kW used at some point during those 90 hours, (maybe A/C, electric oven and electric dryer going). your bill just got a new $130 demand charge for that month.

 

[Solar Guppy]

An increase of $13 multiplied by the highest kW during the peak period throughout the month (90 hours of peak in 30 days). So if you had a situation where you had 10kW used at some point during those 90 hours, (maybe A/C, electric oven and electric dryer going). your bill just got a new $130 demand charge for that month.

Yes I see that now, I removed that post.

As for "your" bill, never would happen, I can program TOU windows and already have the whole home in my Solis S6's but not an option for most people!

 

[wattmatters]

I haven't seen good ways to do automation for water heater, range, clothes dryer etc. it seems to be a manual thing so far.

Just because you may not be aware does not mean it can't be done. This is my PV output and load so far today (before we get to the free energy period from 12-2PM). All automated load management. Water heating, supplemental battery charging, EV charging. There are lots of way to automate loads.

 

[J.H.]

I'm not sure why there is so much confusion on this and replies?

click on the link -->> it is clear in the link for your provider <<-- I posted #4 in this thread. Again, here you go:

Cut and paste from your utilities web page on this exact concern:

"The peak charge of $13 per kilowatt is for the single highest hour of consumption during peak times on one single day per billing cycle, not every day."

The most with be an increase of $13 for each billing period, that's it

Hi Solar Guppy,
I think this is why most people hate the billing games. Your bottom line info is not correct either. If it was, it would not say $13 per kilowatt. Right? Am I missing something? My best guess is that if you used say 6kW during your highest day of the month, during the 3 hour window, then your peak time fee is 6x$13, or $78.

Hell, I could be wrong too But I don't think I am too far off. They have an energy calculator on their website that says if you have a peak hour usage of 6kW during ANY of the 3 hour windows, your new bill is 163.22, vs. the "old" rate of 105.87

I then changed it to 12kW peak for an example, and it went up $79. So it seems pretty clear. It's just an additional charge tacked on there. And not minor at all unless you watch what you are doing. Running AC, laundry, cooking, pool heaters, or anything of that nature during those 3 hours will be a big slap on the wrist.

Your not wrong… I used 3900 kWh last December and Jan doing some “stuff” I do… that 130 kw per day .that’s a lot of power….that’s about 600 dollars per month all focused in certain times..of the day…I want to avoid using and paying extra if using this machinery and gear at the wrong time ..
can it meet a rollover limit…can it be adjusted or reduced or increased… by who…how often…

I got a 1200 water bill once when a normal one was 30 dollars..because I dint understand what they could do at city hall if they wanted..
NO I DIDNT HAVE A LEAK EITHER…( it’s a long story) ..in the end I went to the city hall meeting and settled it for 600.00…

There’s lots of ways to misinterpret legalese contact talk..

I think I’m ok in the winter but need to adjust things between 3 and 6 in the summer..

I don’t assume anything when it comes to POSSIBLY stepping in a mud hole I could have missed.
Call me paranoid… whatever , don’t care…

J.

 

[wattmatters]

So if you had a situation where you had 10kW used at some point during those 90 hours

You would have to average that power for the entire interval.

 

[wattmatters]

Ideally pv would charge up the battery before demand charge period.

Cloudy/rainy days and winter can make that more difficult.

Let's say demand starts at 4pm , with a modern hybrid you could set tou to charge the battery from 3pm to 3:59pm. Or whatever numbers make sense. You could even tell it at what soc to stop charging.

Yes although ideally it would want to be a bit smarter than that as leaving one hour for topping up from the grid may or may not be long enough.

 

[Brucey]

You would have to average that power for the entire interval.

For one hour if I read it correctly.

 

[1201]

Cloudy/rainy days and winter can make that more difficult.


Yes although ideally it would want to be a bit smarter than that as leaving one hour for topping up from the grid may or may not be long enough.

Or whatever makes sense, as i said

 

[sunsurfer]

UPDATE….
I sat on the phone for an hour today trying to get someone to explain a couple of questions I had about the way this increase is worded..

The common consensus amoung the 3 people was “ don’t worry it’s not much at all” ..about a half of 1 % …
No one knew anything…absolutely nothing…Zippo…

Finally I got transferred to a big whig who was supposed to know everything …
got her voice mail at 1: 00 p.m.

Left a message to please call me back… no one called….

I Will place a new call in the morn…

I will be a nice guy….I will pay them their money … overall they are a great group…
I just want to understand how they decide what I owe…so I can plan what I do to not get clobbered accidentally

Maybe that’s just old fashioned thinking.…beats me.

If they don't respond, call them back and tell them how exited you are about the possible referendum movement to form a community owned power company.

 

[J.H.]

What pisses me off, is IF this knowledgeable forum crowd here , has many interpretations of what a new rule placed on the public means , how can they think the average person with zero electrical awarness has a chance to understand … most wont even know somthing changed or why the power bill went up…they will just pay it…

It’s just the way the big whigs do..

I don’t really care about the money as much as I just hate getting played…

JRH…

 

[wattmatters]

For one hour if I read it correctly.

It depends on how long an interval the utility uses for calculating peak demand. As mentioned earlier, in my area the intervals for demand calculations are half-hourly.

Or whatever makes sense, as i said

Yes, which means you need a way to predict when it makes sense to do it earlier.

I have this for my off-grid battery charging. My Home Assistant uses a forecasting engine to predict the remaining generation for our off-grid PV array. It then compares that with our battery's remaining capacity and makes an assessment as to whether supplemental charging is required from the grid-tied PV. Then it assesses what excess PV capacity is spare and will adjust the charging rate accordingly.

 

[J.H.]

If they don't respond, call them back and tell them how exited you are about the possible referendum movement to form a community owned power company.

…. Yeah… I moved out in the woods to be left alone… im really Gona start a fight with the big bear that’s living up the hill.

 

[wattmatters]

What pisses me off, is IF this knowledgeable forum crowd here , has many interpretations of what a new rule placed on the public means , how can they think the average person with zero electrical awarness has a chance to understand … most wont even know somthing changed or why the power bill went up…they will just pay it…

I agree, it is an unnecessarily confusing tariff for residential application. It makes sense in an industrial context (similar to how charging based on kVA makes sense for industrial/commercial scale enterprises but not for residential).

To achieve what the distribution utility seeks, i.e. to moderate peak demand and to shift consumption to other times of day, straightforward time of use tariffs do this just as well, if not better, and are understandable by most people.

 

[wattmatters]

I have this for my off-grid battery charging. My Home Assistant uses a forecasting engine to predict the remaining generation for our off-grid PV array. It then compares that with our battery's remaining capacity and makes an assessment as to whether supplemental charging is required from the grid-tied PV.

Snap taken just now. My off-grid PV is predicted to have 3.4 kWh of PV output remaining today. Battery only has 1.4 kWh to full. Supplemental grid charging therefore not required.

 

[J.H.]

I agree, it is an unnecessarily confusing tariff for residential application. It makes sense in an industrial context (similar to how charging based on kVA makes sense for industrial/commercial scale enterprises but not for residential).

To achieve what the distribution utility seeks, i.e. to moderate peak demand and to shift consumption to other times of day, straightforward time of use tariffs do this just as well, if not better, and are understandable by most people.

It gets back to the old adage “ if ya can’t impress them with facts,then baffle em with bullshit.

It’s everywhere ,all day ,on ever topic.. and just gets worse each year..

 

[fafrd]

I see what your saying, most appliances don't have a 100% duty cycle, but yes more than 1 kWh in an hour of time for those 3 hours daily windows in the peak cooling or heating windows is certainly possible if not guarantied as most residential customers have never had to think about time of day pricing.

I believe that is precisely the point of these new, more complicated rate structures…

This has been common in commercial / industrial for decades and the Coop is just a commercial customer of another utility. The ones that run the Coop are likely hating their jobs right now and have no options.

Are these the rates the coop are charging you or the rates the utility will be charging the coop?

If the pays these fees for the aggregate peak demand and just decided it up pro-rays, that’s going to eliminate the incentive for any individual member to manage peak-period power consumption carefully…

 

[Andrewr05]

Meanwhile my town in NH just joined a co-op (or whatever it is) and is going to sell us electricity at 3 cents less than what I'm paying now.

 

[Brucey]

Meanwhile my town in NH just joined a co-op (or whatever it is) and is going to sell us electricity at 3 cents less than what I'm paying now.

Once you stop having to worry about shareholder returns and stock price amazing things are possible.

 

[J.H.]

Meanwhile my town in NH just joined a co-op (or whatever it is) and is going to sell us electricity at 3 cents less than what I'm paying now.

Yer a luck young fella… when I moved to the mountains many years ago the electricity was 4 CT’s per kWh…( it’s alot more now) …

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Maybe it's a 'good thing' - since this will encourage people to add a battery/inverter system to avoid the demand charges; they will come to the DIY Solar Forum for some help to set it up, and then we will get them hooked on the whole solar-power addiction !

You would be surprised at how little people know about solar.

Most have zero clue then you have the ones who think they know.

Our co-op raised the monthly fee to $50 and the rate a little higher but still flat rate across the 24h period.

No TOU yet..

 

[Nobodybusiness]

don’t assume anything when it comes to POSSIBLY stepping in a mud hole I could have missed.
Call me paranoid… whatever , don’t care…

You are absolutely right in being paranoid about this.

Going to be a lot of people who get surprise $$$$$ electric bills after this goes into affect.

Solar or no Solar..

 

[Oldphile]

My clothes dryer alone would give me an undesirable bill with this demand charge. It consumes 5KW continuously for about 1 hour. There's going to be rage against city hall with the first bill.

 

[wattmatters]

My clothes dryer alone would give me an undesirable bill with this demand charge. It consumes 5KW continuously for about 1 hour. There's going to be rage against city hall with the first bill.

Ours is a heat pump dryer and draws ~800 W. And where possible run in the daytime directly from solar PV if hanging clothes out isn’t feasible.