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NBC News: Goods imported from China now face a 54% tariff rate

Primal1 said:
France had what was widely considered the strongest Army during WWll, second only to the British in mechanized units. Considered an equal to Germany and the third largest Army in Europe. They surrendered in six weeks. Paper tiger army then and now. If you knew anything about history of war you'd never have made that dumbassed assessment.
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You know nothing.
The French army of of the 1930s was built around the idea of trench warfare and static defences.
And their defences were formidable.
But the Germany army was an army of modern speed and mobility with close air support.
They went around the French defences like the Maginot line


The french built Siege tanks like this.
Where they did engage German tanks, they destroyed them.
Had the French put more heavy tanks out where they could met the German blitz things might have ended very differently.
 
DwaltonOR said:
Right now... I am am about 10 years from retirement? maybe? I am working on excising myself and my home from the state - the grid and everything else. I don't see anything changing at the top levels of government - I don't see society fixing itself. Idiocracy is not a spoof or farce lol - it is real life these days.
I started with a small solar set up that will grow to sustain my wife and I when we retire. We own the land we are on - and have a strong well. I am just going to put my head down and earplugs in and hope thing stay far away in my lifetime remaining.
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"excising myself and my home from the state" You pay property taxes on that home right? You're renting it from the state, you don't really own it. Something I think that needs to change.
 
CaySol said:
Working stop lights, street lights and pot hole free roads are nice though right?
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No shit eh?

You got to shake your head at some people's logic.
Unless you want live like a hermit you need to be part of society, that means taxes..
 
When my son was little I used to sing him this song at bed time.
Its also the unofficial anthem of Saskatchewan...

 
Harley1955 said:
"excising myself and my home from the state" You pay property taxes on that home right? You're renting it from the state, you don't really own it. Something I think that needs to change.
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I agree - so we keep things intentionally low tax. Except for the land value that it. My wife and I live in a 24’ yurt that we build over a decade ago. The yurt didn’t need permits because the deck was less than 500 sq feet … it’s classified as a non permanent structure. The “house” is an old 1970’s double wide mobile home … that my wife’s parents had. It’s all aluminum siding - roof - etc. and constantly loosing taxable value.

We live in a neighborhood that is basically small lots with manufactured homes - our acre lot along with 4-5 neighbors are larger lots that boarder Hop fields and farms.

With luck - our taxes stay reasonable before our lives come to their natural end.
 
Will Prowse said:
What does this have to do with tariffs?
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Some background...

There is a real chance that those tariffs could lead to a recession Link. which can lead to violence, depending on the leaders at the time. (As a student of history, you can see an example from Germany with the failed "Beer Hall Putsch", and the rise of right wing extremism) Project 25, which Trump is following, is seen as revolution by it's leader. Link. The removal of the merit based leadership in American institutions, including the armed forces, law enforcement and justice system, replacing those people with Trump loyalists is an indication that Trump expects this revolution is likely to happen.

Some one claimed that democrats are violent, while I have no doubt that some are, (for example the torching of Tesla's), there wasn't any call for it from by Biden, sadly there is are examples of violence encouraged or instigated by Trump himself. However, rather than denouncing the violence on both sides, quite a few Americans will use as an excuse to violently silence all opposition, (like the burning of the Reichstag in 1933) will it be as bad as Germany during the great recession?

Trying to inject some facts and where this kind of talk is leading to, it seems some people here are eager for the start of this senseless violence.
 
DPC said:
You know nothing.
The French army of of the 1930s was built around the idea of trench warfare and static defences.
And their defences were formidable.
But the Germany army was an army of modern speed and mobility with close air support.
They went around the French defences like the Maginot line


The french built Siege tanks like this.
Where they did engage German tanks, they destroyed them.
Had the French put more heavy tanks out where they could met the German blitz things might have ended very differently.
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I was going to post that but I figured he would just say they that their military strategy was weak. It’s so easy to criticize decisions made after the fact when you don’t realize that with the knowledge they had at the time this was the logical defensive stand to take.
Meanwhile the real idiot of the War Stalin, was shipping Germany much needed steel to build tanks. Tanks that at one point were headed for Russia while passing Russian trucks headed to Germany with more steel supplies.
 
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Primal1 said:
Every conflict since WWll that America didn't win was against an opponent using Russian made weapons rf Chinese copies of them that you're on record mocking as useless.

Modern Europe doesn't exactly have a winning record in war to put it mildly, they have been rescued every time by the USA. But this time you claim the French can go it alone. Well? WTF are they waiting on? NATO exists because of mass fear of Russia from all of the EUROPEAN countries in NATO, if France can do it alone, there's no excuse for the rest of the NATO countries in Europe not joining in and doing it except well, reality, balls and ability.


Typical, same shit you tried when you clowned yourself in another thread mocking Russian weapons as useless and inferior. You argue like a 12 year old girl and I don't pick on children.

Not gonna rehash the entire thing with you. It's simple. If The Ukraine and Europe are so awesome and capable, why are they so concerned about Trumps actions? Kick the US out of NATO and show him and us what's what. We wouldn't be in the discussion if you nitwits weren't melting down over Trump's actions. To borrow language from your heroes, "I'll circle back to this" when the dust has settles and you look as stupid as you sound.
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Another excerpt from that lesser known Dr Sueese book on geopolitics, The Diplomat With The Hat.
What Trump did was to publicly betray Ukraine via the brilliant tactic of offering concessions to Putin before arriving at the negotiating table. Then, after lying about Zelenskyy popularity & trying to openly blackmail him, he and his half bright sidekick Vance tried to publicly humiliate Zelenskyy in one of the most extraordinary displays of childish entitlement and bullying to grace the world stage. Putin can't believe his luck, even in his wildest dreams he couldn't have seen this coming.
 
Chispas said:
Another excerpt from that lesser known Dr Sueese book on geopolitics, The Diplomat With The Hat.
What Trump did was to publicly betray Ukraine via the brilliant tactic of offering concessions to Putin before arriving at the negotiating table. Then, after lying about Zelenskyy popularity & trying to openly blackmail him, he and his half bright sidekick Vance tried to publicly humiliate Zelenskyy in one of the most extraordinary displays of childish entitlement and bullying to grace the world stage. Putin can't believe his luck, even in his wildest dreams he couldn't have seen this coming.
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what does the usa stand to gain by backing ukraine?
 
Will Prowse said:
Income tax is not American at all.
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How so? Income tax is specifically approved in the Constitution via the 16th Amendment, which was duly adopted by Congress and ratified by an overwhelming majority of states (only four of the 48 states voted against ratification).

I’ve noticed other occasions that you’ve labeled something “anti-American” or “un American” or “not American” but I haven’t said anything until now. What criteria do you have for labeling things un-American?

May I suggest that branding something or someone as Un-American is not a very healthy way to debate policy choices. Keep in mind that the Constitution —the bedrock of American government— declares in its Preamble that its very purpose is to “promote the general welfare.” So any law or policy that does so is, definitionally, very much American.

Now, you might argue that, for example, a regulation that prevents an industry from polluting public water or air goes too far in promoting the general welfare over the interests of the industry, but that doesn’t make the EPA “Un American.”

I remember that you once labeled the solar tax credit as “not American.” That law was based on a congressional finding that promotion of renewable energy was in the national interest (i.e., it promoted the general welfare). Call it bad policy if you want, but “Will doesn’t like it” is not a valid basis for declaring it un-American.

And one final point, while I’m at it. You seem to romanticize this notion of rugged individualism as an American ideal. That wasn’t a universal thing even when America was still largely a frontier society at our founding. Frontier communities banded together for mutual aid and support even then. And, yes, they even had restrictions on the armaments that individuals could possess.

In almost two and a half centuries since the founding, our society has become much more inter-dependent, and we have become a stronger and more prosperous nation because of it. People working together for the common good always produces more benefits than an “every man for himself” mindset.

So please don’t call Americans un-American simply because you might disagree with them about some policy choice. That, my friend, actually is sort of un American. (See what I did there?)

/end of diatribe
 
GuyG said:
How so? Income tax is specifically approved in the Constitution via the 16th Amendment, which was duly adopted by Congress and ratified by an overwhelming majority of states (only four of the 48 states voted against ratification).

I’ve noticed other occasions that you’ve labeled something “anti-American” or “un American” or “not American” but I haven’t said anything until now. What criteria do you have for labeling things un-American?

May I suggest that branding something or someone as Un-American is not a very healthy way to debate policy choices. Keep in mind that the Constitution —the bedrock of American government— declares in its Preamble that its very purpose is to “promote the general welfare.” So any law or policy that does so is, definitionally, very much American.

Now, you might argue that, for example, a regulation that prevents an industry from polluting public water or air goes too far in promoting the general welfare over the interests of the industry, but that doesn’t make the EPA “Un American.”

I remember that you once labeled the solar tax credit as “not American.” That law was based on a congressional finding that promotion of renewable energy was in the national interest (i.e., it promoted the general welfare). Call it bad policy if you want, but “Will doesn’t like it” is not a valid basis for declaring it un-American.

And one final point, while I’m at it. You seem to romanticize this notion of rugged individualism as an American ideal. That wasn’t a universal thing even when America was still largely a frontier society at our founding. Frontier communities banded together for mutual aid and support even then. And, yes, they even had restrictions on the armaments that individuals could possess.

In almost two and a half centuries since the founding, our society has become much more inter-dependent, and we have become a stronger and more prosperous nation because of it. People working together for the common good always produces more benefits than an “every man for himself” mindset.

So please don’t call Americans un-American simply because you might disagree with them about some policy choice. That, my friend, actually is sort of un American. (See what I did there?)

/end of diatribe
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I'm saying it's not American because we literally sank ships for having the tea tax which was only a few percent. Same with the tax stamp. The fundamental idea of America is to have voluntary interactions with government. Putting my grandma into jail because she didn't pay taxes on a garage sale she had is not American.

The reason we ratified the 16th amendment was because of the liquidity crisis's in the 1800s. But it was because of the central bankers pushing for it and installing politicians to have a supermajority in Congress. Most people were entirely against it. Again, not American. Our founding was against this. Why do you think we had the Boston tea party? Why do you think we did not have an income tax for the majority of our existence?

Oh I'm all for state county and city taxes and laws that we vote for. If they want to have that in a specific area then so be it. But when you have something at the federal level, everyone has to do it no matter what. Many people didn't even know who the president was because they didn't even care because the federal government was so limited in power back in the day. If a local government decides to do something, and you do not like it, you can move to a local government that you do like. You get to have the choice.

A lot of people did not want to trade one crown with another crown. That's what they thought of with the president being created. Only 20% of the colonialist population was loyalists. Most Americans wanted the colonies to be individual countries. Even New York didn't even vote for the first presidency because they were late to do so. They did not take it seriously at all.

Going by our revolution I'm going to again stand and say that it is not American to have an income tax. The federal government should not be controlling our lives as much. It's not American. Look at our founding.
 
GuyG said:
How so? Income tax is specifically approved in the Constitution via the 16th Amendment, which was duly adopted by Congress and ratified by an overwhelming majority of states (only four of the 48 states voted against ratification).

I’ve noticed other occasions that you’ve labeled something “anti-American” or “un American” or “not American” but I haven’t said anything until now. What criteria do you have for labeling things un-American?

May I suggest that branding something or someone as Un-American is not a very healthy way to debate policy choices. Keep in mind that the Constitution —the bedrock of American government— declares in its Preamble that its very purpose is to “promote the general welfare.” So any law or policy that does so is, definitionally, very much American.

Now, you might argue that, for example, a regulation that prevents an industry from polluting public water or air goes too far in promoting the general welfare over the interests of the industry, but that doesn’t make the EPA “Un American.”

I remember that you once labeled the solar tax credit as “not American.” That law was based on a congressional finding that promotion of renewable energy was in the national interest (i.e., it promoted the general welfare). Call it bad policy if you want, but “Will doesn’t like it” is not a valid basis for declaring it un-American.

And one final point, while I’m at it. You seem to romanticize this notion of rugged individualism as an American ideal. That wasn’t a universal thing even when America was still largely a frontier society at our founding. Frontier communities banded together for mutual aid and support even then. And, yes, they even had restrictions on the armaments that individuals could possess.

In almost two and a half centuries since the founding, our society has become much more inter-dependent, and we have become a stronger and more prosperous nation because of it. People working together for the common good always produces more benefits than an “every man for himself” mindset.

So please don’t call Americans un-American simply because you might disagree with them about some policy choice. That, my friend, actually is sort of un American. (See what I did there?)

/end of diatribe
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Furthermore it's not sustainable effort. If you notice that our debt is ever increasing, regardless of federal tax revenue, it shows that it's not working. The fact that we need to still issue bonds and buy them ourselves shows that our taxes are more for compliance than for generating revenue. If they can print unlimited money, what are taxed for? Look at the level of fraud they are uncovering. These federal programs are purely money laundering operations.

In the 1800s we had liquidity crisis is in a lot of people said that we should have a central bank to allow control of money supply on demand because other countries were screwing us over. That led to panic of 1929 shortly after federal reserve act, and then the great depression.

So no, it has not been going good. If we didn't have so many wars and we couldn't export our inflation we would have collapsed as a country long ago. But because of these endless wars, and securing petrol dollar, we have been able to create an imperial State.
 
D71 said:
what does the usa stand to gain by backing ukraine?
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Good question. If the US had wanted to exploit the mineral wealth of Ukraine it could have gone about it differently. A proposal could have been that involved some investment, a ceasefire & some dealings with Russia that was done via diplomacy, behind closed doors & Ukraine would have probably rolled out the red carpet to the US government. The same for Greenland and Panama. The US has no obligation to defend Ukraine, but the attitude displayed by Trump has seriously damaged American Hegemony and pissed off a lot of people. If, as a country, sovereign wealth fund or corporation, you had billions of dollars to invest, where would you take your money ?
 
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