Wall St & US CEOs offshored manufacturing & politicians from both parties greased the rails. Cheap foreign good & a massive increase in consumer credit hid the fact that wagers were stagnant or falling. Increased taxes will just cause more pain for ordinary folks & no sane investor will put money into a US manufacturing plant in the current climate. A massive depression is possible, maybe that’s the plan.
NBC News: Goods imported from China now face a 54% tariff rate
- Thread starter HangglidingPilot
- Start date
Just time for making bullshit claims
going_commando
Solar Enthusiast
That's it. We HAVE to try something. We HAVE to dramatically reduce government spending. We can't keep carrying on the massive deficit spending we have done for years and years. At some point, our national debt will grow so much that no one will buy the debt, and we will become insolvent. That point is roughly 8-10 years away. At current deficit spending levels, and current interest on debt, we are going to double our national debt to 72 trillion by 2035 (iirc). There is a very good presentation by a congressman on youtube about it that he gave before the house.
We also HAVE to reshore manufacturing, raw material extraction and processing, or else our military will continue to be reliant on imports from China, as it is now. We need to become vertically integrated again for national security. Our procurement and production system has gotten so broken that we can't even replace our stocks of 155mm artillery shells at the rate we have been sending them to the Ukraine. We can't replace the Javelin anti-tank missiles, or the Stinger anti-air missiles. We can't replace the HIMARs rockets. Also a fun fact, if we get in a shooting war with a peer power, we will be out of missiles in about 2 weeks, and if its a ground war we will be out of artillery shells in something like 5 days. We can't fight a protracted war against 1 peer opponent, let alone 2. That is why Trump is trying to end the war in Ukraine quickly. We need time to rebuild, as does Europe, to their ability. Germany can rearm, and France can boost up a bit. The UK is helpless since they don't even make their own steel anymore and have devasted their manufacturing base so much they can't even fix what they have, let alone re-arm. The key point of what the administration has been saying to Europe, that everyone is so up in arms about, is that we have to focus on making sure we are an effective deterrent to China, and we can't afford and aren't able to do that while also bolstering and rebuilding our capacity in Europe. We have to rebuild our military capability on a budget, and are going to have to hack and slash at whatever non-necessary goverment offices, administration, and whatever else to make that happen.
There are going to be hard times around the world. Pax Americana is going to have to take a break and fix our own house. Europe is going to have to cut their social programs to find the money to rebuild their militaries to be an actual deterrent to Russia. I have a feeling Europe is all talk, however, as instead of boosting petroleum production they rattle their sabres while giving Russia billions of dollars for natural gas.
ScrodusGargleRotten
Solar Wizard
Now, the onus is on you to give links as to why it's bs. That's how this works is it not?
Get busy with your cherry picked, easily dismissed garbage.
That is why I don't have time FOR YOU
Your reddit friends miss you.
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going_commando
Solar Enthusiast
Time will tell if the Trump tariff plan will mirror the Smoot Hawley tariffs, but on the face the only similarity is that they both involve tariffs. When Smoot-Hawley was enacted, the US was a massive exporting nation with a massive trade surplus. The countries we were exporting to had other markets they could buy from. We are in a very different situation now, as we have been a net importer for decades, and are the largest market in the world. Countries don't have a choice BUT to sell to us. China doesn't want to import anything. The EU as a whole is a smaller market than the US is alone.
We HAVE to do something.
Jmhai3
Solar Enthusiast
Did you provide payment for an outcome which was not a monitory outcome but for the pleasure and service it provided. Everything thing you do is based on the outcome not always with money.
To me this is all business when it comes to my family.
I do whatever I can to maximize my income from work to make my family and myself happy.
going_commando
Solar Enthusiast
Apparently there are a lot of insane investors as there are over 2 trillion dollars in committed investments announced already. Time will tell, I suppose.
If thst the channel thst has that cute brunette ,I watch that a good bit…I like her…
The only other channels I watch about the the Aussies is Andy and the one that talks about which tourist or person got eaten by a large shark lately ….
J
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You can call it whatever you want, but calling government a business doesn't make it a business. Government does things that businesses can't or won't do.
CaySol
Solar apprentice
The outcome of a business is monetary profit. Not happiness or anything else. Making your family happy isn’t a business.
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
That's why I asked about DDP shipping... Basically no change.
Dagoth Ur Does Solar
Solar Wizard
I always have to unwatch these threads after a point because they go off the rails so quickly.
The largest tax increase in history, put in place without any congressional action or oversight.
USA imports about $4000B per year. 20% of that is $800B in extra costs to USA residents, about $2500 per person on average per year.
The tariffs are pushing companies to move manufacturing overseas in many cases. If you build in the USA, you face tariffs on the materials imported, and then retaliation tariffs when you export. If you instead locate your manufacturing elsewhere, you escape both of those tariffs for global shipments.
My company was planning to import subassemblies from overseas and do final assembly in the USA. Now we are looking at not doing any manufacturing work in the USA at all.
Mike C.
USA imports about $4000B per year. 20% of that is $800B in extra costs to USA residents, about $2500 per person on average per year.
The tariffs are pushing companies to move manufacturing overseas in many cases. If you build in the USA, you face tariffs on the materials imported, and then retaliation tariffs when you export. If you instead locate your manufacturing elsewhere, you escape both of those tariffs for global shipments.
My company was planning to import subassemblies from overseas and do final assembly in the USA. Now we are looking at not doing any manufacturing work in the USA at all.
Mike C.
At least for solar panels I believe Hanwha/QCELLS is going to be the closest thing to entire product made from within USA/NA. Even the silicon: https://www.world-energy.org/article/36165.html.
Edit: and to think this place was actually closed before QCELLS invested in it? Goes to show you how skewed our reliance on China is.
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Enough of big picture implications. On a individual level the thought that the price could rise steeply due to new Tariffs caused me to order in a new set of tires (on a 5% off deal) for my Quad ATV (most Quad tires come from Asia/China) so likely the price is going up. Probably will not put the new ones until after Summer.
As a individual buyer that is price sensitive I look for the maximum bang for the buck.
As a individual buyer that is price sensitive I look for the maximum bang for the buck.
Good grief!
What was it Mr Twain wrote...'never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'
Jmhai3
Solar Enthusiast
I am speaking from the point of view of business.
The OP was about tariffs and would they impact solar prices, was it a question about a social response or business.
I say it will make a change; good or bad, short term or long term, has not been decided yet.
chill633
Solar Enthusiast
This is ludicrous and an indication you have ZERO understanding of how all this works. Who exactly do you think is going to stop buying our debt? Do you understand most of it is SOLD TO OURSELVES?! Debt Held By the Public (DHBP) constitutes 71% of the total Federal debt. That's the Federal Reserve, Mutual Funds, Insurance Companies, State/Local Governments, Grandma's buying Savings Bonds, etc.
When the Federal Reserve decided to become the "Lender of Last Resort", that's the US Gov't financing its own debt. We pay those interest payments TO OURSELVES. The payments go to the US Treasury.
The US is the richest, most productive nation in the history of the world. We have enormous natural resources, a developed infrastructure, and an educated population. Where else do you see people investing money? Despite what you evaluate our situation to be, we're still way better than everyone else's situation. Our debt is an annoyance, not a potential crippling blow. We aren't fucking Greece. For those few nations that may have better debt control, they're tiny in economic size. Norway? Fantastic! However, with a GDP of $485 billion USD compared to the US at $27.75 TRILLION, they can't absorb the investment. They don't have the bonds to sell.
That's why the US is the world's reserve currency. Looking at who is both big enough to absorb it, plus stable enough that it is worth something, that leaves...the USD and *MAYBE* the EUR. China has capital controls, meaning they don't let you move large amounts of money outside of China, so no one is using them as an investment currency in any capacity. You'll make money, but it'll be trapped.
I've been hearing that "we're 8-10 years away from insolvency" my entire life. It comes from people who think the largest economy in the world, with the world's reserve currency, and more natural resources than God, is the equivalent of their family budget just scaled up. Do we need to address the debt? Yes. Are we on the brink of catastrophy? Well, we weren't until President Orange Bumblefuck decided to wave his tiny dick around. Now? We'll see...
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
Interesting, the company I work for makes semi finished automotive goods in the states, ships them to Canada, Mexico, etc where they are converted to finished goods.
We are actively working on pulling tooling out of Canadian plants and bringing it back to the states for final assembly.
Actually in a meeting right now with one of our big US raw material suppliers.... SNAFU for sure.
Osmethne
Solar Enthusiast
We really need an 'informative' like option.
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What business? NONE that I know. Government and business are entirely different sectors in the business and investing world for a reason.
This morning, after 1/2 hour of trading DOW and S & P are down over 4%. NASDAQ down over 4.5%. So far, the markets think this tariff stuff is a bad idea.
And you know this how? You don't.
The U.S. Commerce Department International Trade Administration keeps track of this stuff and publishes it on their website. Took me 30 seconds to look it up, and I posted a screenshot of it earlier in this thread. Next?
p.s., RIF
Jmhai3
Solar Enthusiast
They are different sectors BUT.
I agree they shouldn't be this intertwined, but they are.
Pulled from goggle search using your sentence above. "Government and business are entirely different sectors in the business and investing world for a reason."
The government and business sectors operate under different principles and structures.
- Government is primarily focused on public policy, representation, and societal order, while business is driven by profit motives and efficiency4.
- The business sector operates freely without government intervention, whereas the government must navigate various competing interests and political considerations2.
- Understanding the relationship between government and business is crucial, as government policies can significantly impact the competitive landscape of businesses5.
- The mixed economic system combines both sectors, allowing for collaboration and influence on one another3.
My words... So far, there is change happening and someone will make money, and someone will lose.
Also, I will refer to the "Mixed Economic System" when discussing this topic which will not be for much longer. Got stuff to do.