Need help chasing some gremlins with the 6000xp

[longcreekridge]

What is the Make/Model of the battery and do you have any means of separately monitoring the battery; specifically can you view the cells and their voltages to determine the correct/actual SOC (if in fact the batteries are getting fully charged..

Are you operating in open or closed loop. Keep in mind that SOC as reported by the battery or as determined by the Inverter will be wildly inaccurate if from time to time you do not fully charge the batteries to the point you get cell balancing.

The battery is EG4's indoor wallmount PowerPro. As they built to be used together, and seem to be communicating just fine, I'm not particularly concerned about accuracy of the SOC.

 

[marionw]

You can download the EG4 BMS Tools software from the EG4 website (for your battery) and use it to look at the battery. The software will allow you verify that in fact you are getting the battery fully charged. SOC as reported by the battery to the inverter can be very inaccurate if from time to time you do not charge the battery to where cells balance and the BMS can reset SOC to an accurate value. It is possible that you have one or more "runner" cells that charge much faster that the others which results in a Cell Over Voltage Protection fault which prevents further charging of the battery, thus the other cells do not get fully charged. The software is free and is a great diagnostic tool for evaluation the health of your battery. Verify you are in fact getting the battery fully charged to eliminate it as the cause of the problem.

At the same time consider updating the firmware which you can also download from the EG4 website. Just thoroughly read the firmware update procedures before performing the update.

 

[TM48]

I keep seeing these reports of 6000xp overcurrent trips when starting power tools. Maybe @EG4TechSolutionsTeam could talk to OEM about adding custom tool start mode that allows voltage to drop to maintain max surge current just like Victron does it, for example 800 watt Phoenix inverter can start 170A LRA chop saw. Users will have to agree that this mode could stall and potentially burn out simultaneously running air conditioner or fridge compressors. May have to separate sensitive circuits to another inverter running independently from tool inverter.

I own a Phoenix 800 watt inverter and while think highly of it I seriously doubt that a inverter rated to supply 6.7 amps is going to start a motor with a 170a start current.That would be of mythical proportions. An 800 watt inverter is not going to start a motor which needs 20400 watts to start. According to a LRA calculator I ran the op's 2 hp dust collector should draw 52 amps on startup which is more than twice what one leg can supply. (of his 6000xp). As previously suggested if he could rewire to 240v it would probably fix the this issue.

 

[AntronX]

I seriously doubt that a inverter rated to supply 6.7 amps is going to start a motor with a 170a start current.

I tested it. It flat tops current at around 20A peak while voltage is allowed to drop to 30Vac. Try it yourself.

 

[longcreekridge]

I own a Phoenix 800 watt inverter and while think highly of it I seriously doubt that a inverter rated to supply 6.7 amps is going to start a motor with a 170a start current.That would be of mythical proportions. An 800 watt inverter is not going to start a motor which needs 20400 watts to start. According to a LRA calculator I ran the op's 2 hp dust collector should draw 52 amps on startup which is more than twice what one leg can supply. (of his 6000xp). As previously suggested if he could rewire to 240v it would probably fix the this issue.

Alas, this particular motor cannot be rewired for 240. But just to be sure my thinking on this is correct -- I planned the circuits so that the dust collector would run on one leg and all the other tools likely to be run at the same time (one at a time) on the other. If I were to get a dust collector that can be wired for 240, it might run but I would be stealing a lot of the wattage from that leg that I need to run one other tool simultaneously, correct?

 

[TM48]

My 14" chop is labeled at 15 amps run. There is no LRA listed. While the Phoenix may start your chop saw I seriously doubt it's LRA is 170a. I like my little 800 watt blue inverter and I wouldn't ask it to drive an 1800 watt load. It does surge well as it supplied power to my 800 watt refrigerator and 66 watt freezer for three days after hurricane Zeda.

 

[TM48]

Alas, this particular motor cannot be rewired for 240. But just to be sure my thinking on this is correct -- I planned the circuits so that the dust collector would run on one leg and all the other tools likely to be run at the same time (one at a time) on the other. If I were to get a dust collector that can be wired for 240, it might run but I would be stealing a lot of the wattage from that leg that I need to run one other tool simultaneously, correct?

Yes. This is why I installed two 6000s to start.

 

[AntronX]

While the Phoenix may start your chop saw I seriously doubt it's LRA is 170a.

Post in thread '6000XP and Soft Start Device for 120V loads'

Oct 26, 2024

170A peak inrush No wonder inverters give up

Measured across 0.01ohm resistor in series with the chop saw

• AntronX

• 
• 

 

[rogerheflin]

Alas, this particular motor cannot be rewired for 240. But just to be sure my thinking on this is correct -- I planned the circuits so that the dust collector would run on one leg and all the other tools likely to be run at the same time (one at a time) on the other. If I were to get a dust collector that can be wired for 240, it might run but I would be stealing a lot of the wattage from that leg that I need to run one other tool simultaneously, correct?

You would. You may need to see what the typical running wattage is of that motor, often HP is overstated especially on cheaper stuff, 2HP == 1500w to see if that was an issue. My standard 120v connected compressor (not HF 20 year old Coleman, but similar rating problems) says 5HP, even though you cannot get 5HP from a 120V/15A cord for anything but a short time. Though at 240 it will pull 1/2 the amount, and a 6000 should be able to run (maybe not start) the dust collector and also start another 15a rated tools (less than the 3000 on one leg). I have a lot of HF stuff, but I don't completely trust their HP ratings and such to not to be over-stated and/or peak that only happens under extreme conditions.

 

[TM48]

Post in thread '6000XP and Soft Start Device for 120V loads'

Oct 26, 2024

170A peak inrush No wonder inverters give up

Measured across 0.01ohm resistor in series with the chop saw

• AntronX

• 
• 

While that trace does appear to show a 170a pulse that is not equal to the LRA. According to Klein (the manufacturer of my meter) the inrush current is sampled at every 20 ms and updated every 100ms. Presumably it would store the peak of those values. Also the trace depicted is not an RMS value. I tested my meter on my 3 ton a/c and it matched the labeled 81a LRA so I have some confidence in it . Also is that trace captured from the Phoenix or is that grid power?

 

[AntronX]

While that trace does appear to show a 170a pulse that is not equal to the LRA.

With rotor locked it pulled 170A on first AC waveform half-cycle = good enough definition of LRA for me. This is peak value, not RMS. To get RMS you divide by 1.42 which is 120A. This is what inverter sees and it looks a lot like a short circuit which should trigger an overcurrent trip.

Also is that trace captured from the Phoenix or is that grid power?

Low impedance grid point capable of (my guess) 10kA peak fault current. I am 100' from 75kVA pad transformer.

 

[longcreekridge]

A couple updates for anyone following along. I replaced the 2 HP Harbor Freight dust collector with its one horsepower little brother, and that is running fine on the 6000xp and 280ah indoor wallmount.

I also moved the Torque Tamer soft start to the miter saw and so far havent tripped a shutdown.

All good news. Bad news is I got another Battery High Voltage yesterday warning when the batteries hit 100% (from solar). Log showed a 59.2v before returning to 55. Assuming thats not good.

Running latest firmware. Is there a manual setting I can change on my end to make sure the inverter isnt over charging the battery?

 

[timselectric]

Is there a manual setting I can change on my end to make sure the inverter isnt over charging the battery?

Only if you drop BMS communication. That's the only way you can get control of charging.

 

[TM48]

I run the same firmware and have one indoor and two all weather Power Pros. In four months of operation I have had zero faults of any kind. My batteries are charged to 100% every day except one. Do you always have some load on the inverter? Mine runs 100 to 400 watts always. I run closed loop SOC.

 

[longcreekridge]

I run the same firmware and have one indoor and two all weather Power Pros. In four months of operation I have had zero faults of any kind. My batteries are charged to 100% every day except one. Do you always have some load on the inverter? Mine runs 100 to 400 watts always. I run closed loop SOC.

To date, I have not always had a load on the inverter. It's in a barn/woodshop at a remote homestead, where i do not live full time. My loads are mostly intermittent anyway--running power tools as necessary. I do have a 4g router and a security camera running full time now, but their draw is small. The house install is a longer term project but I may run a long circuit to power the house fridge if a permanent load of sort is required. My goal was simply the bank power and use it as necessary

 

[TM48]

Yeah I was just trying to think what could be different between our systems. You are in lithium mode...right? 59+v is really beyond the lithium range. Also is the reported firmware on the battery Z02T03? One other thought, have you tried replacing the cat cable between the bat and inverter?

 

[longcreekridge]

Another update, fwiw: I was instructed by EG4 support to change battery brand setting from 0 to 1, and so far I have not had any more Battery High Voltage warnings (to be clear, I only had one documented Battery High Voltage alert, and one witnessed Bus Voltage High fault at full production, after battery hit 100%).