diy solar

diy solar

Need help figuring this out....

So what is it?


  • Total voters
    7

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
Sep 20, 2019
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Dishwasher breaker popped a couple of times last night. Figured it was the breaker or a loose/shorting wire under the dishwasher.

I pulled everything out from under the sink and traced some wires, then took the bottom front plate off trying to figure out how to pull the dishwasher out. I suspected that was going to be hard due to the new granite countertop. Soooo... instead I just popped open the load center and switched wires with the breaker below it (both 20 amps, one just has the dishwasher, the other hall lights), done in under 2 minutes. Not sure if that was Smart, Stupid, or just plain Lazy.

We moved here a few years ago and had a lot of renovations done by professional craftsman (sort of stuff I enjoy doing, but was tied up at work and the spouse wasn't willing to wait). It amazes me how bad some of them are. While looking at the dishwasher I spotted a leak under the sink where the left sink joins up to the right sink basin. Turns out that pipe was cut to size, the wrong size. It was cut to the exact length to get to the fitting...but not so it would go inside the fitting. Only the little teflon ring was bridging the gap. That's fixed properly now at least. Well, guess I should run the dish washer and see if it'll burn the house down....wish me luck!
 
I can't vote without a result, but I'd lean towards smart. You're at least eliminating half of the potential problem. Sounds like the plumber made a mistake and used the well worn construction phrase "Can't see if from my house!".
 
Changed my vote from Lazy to cast a second vote for Lucky... dishwasher test ran fine with "heated dry" and "sanitize" options. As the other circuit probably only ever pulls a couple of amps, shouldn't have to worry about swapping the breaker. House was built in 1980, so the breaker is probably only 40 years old.
 
TBH, this was a Strategic Test shall we say by swapping breakers.
Next, REPLACE the breaker which the dishwasher originally used. They can fail and sometimes do. Generally, if a breaker has tripped a lot it will be weakened and cause potential issues later, replacement is usually prudent. 1 120V/20A Breaker will likely cost about $20. (Schneider or Square-D etc) Remember to shut off the MAIN Breaker when pulling the breaker. 2 Minute Job.

Dishwashers can be tricky, several things can go wrong with them over time. Seems the newer models don't last like the older models but they have a lot more bells & whistles. One common fault area is the heating coil, especially with Hard Water when they start to go, they just outright die OR like the old filament bulbs kind of did, that just before they die they pull excessive energy (and that would certainly trip a breaker). Quite often the coil can be examined if you remove the trays, check for pits, crack, any buildup. Pitting & cracking can happen if stuff flies out of the trays and hits the coil which has a protective coating. You would be surprised at how many Dishwashers get tossed because the coil failed (replaceable and not expensive) because they didn't know to check or hire a repairman. Sadly the "disposable thinking" has gone a tad too far IMO.

Hope this is helpful. Good Luck.
Steve
 
A truck I used to have was known to have electrical problems that manifested as a no-start situation. The "test" was to swap the fog light relay with the ECU relay. If the truck started, you knew it was the relay.

Mine didn't ever have this problem, but I was prepared with a backup relay.

A couple months ago I had to fix the dishwasher. It turned out to be the water inlet valve/switch. It simply wasn't allowing enough water into the dishwasher. A new valve/switch fixed that problem. The sump assembly was horribly clogged due to some interaction between detergents. That got replaced at the same time.
 
So far I would say lucky. So far because the "new" breaker is going to trip also. IMO
I suspect a problem with the DW handle causing a short when yanking on it to open.
 
Very true, just because the problem didn't recur doesn't mean it's actually fixed.

Well, if we're going to be scientific about this, your experiment needs to be controlled, and reproducible. I'm afraid you're going to have to build an identical house next to yours, outfit it exactly the same, then proceed. Anxious to hear back from you.
 
Oh no. Schlagger might be "QA Guy From Hell". :)

Not to disparage the entire QA profession, mind you. I think a good QA guy is worth his (or her) weight in gold. Seriously. As a developer I am very appreciative of a good QA guy. It's the ones that think they need to rewrite the requirements that drive me nuts.
 
Circuit breaker tripped the other day... so not so smart after all.

Opened up the junction boxes under the sink and in the dishwasher, all okay there. Don't see anything shorted...

Started reading online about them and saw the reccommendation was 15 or 20 amp breaker. Hmmmm, only have a 15... could that be it? Measured the wire with calipers... 12 gauge out of the load center and 12 gauge into the box under the sink. 14 gauge in armored cable 4' to the dish washer...so could go to 20 amps if I swapped that last little bit out (so short might not even need too).

But first... figured I'd run it with the clamp meter to see what the max amps were. So far boring, 1.7 amps.
 
Finally finished... only used 1.27 amps max.

About half way through it was using so little power I opened it up to look inside (miss the old analog wheels you could spin to advance the cycle)... usually I get blasted with steam when I open the door... this time barely anything... So now I'm thinking it has something to so with the heating element.

Naturally, it's a marvel of engineering:
The 1,000 watt hidden inline heater under the stainless floor (next to the sump assembly) quickly heats water during the cycle. The heating element is an "O" ring in the pump and heats the water as it passes through. When Power Dry is selected, the water in the Rinse cycle is heated up to 155 degrees to aid the drying process.

Inside the pump? WTF? And, it doesn't look like you can buy just the magic O ring. You have to buy the whole variable speed pump... the most expensive part...about half the price of a new one.

But it might not be the pump... there's a "fan" to "assist dry" the warm air, temperature sensors, water level sensors, and it's got to work in harmony for the heater to come on. Not getting any error codes, so I can probably rule out the sensors.

Then from the model Q&A on their web site:
Q: My dishwasher is not heating or drying, what part is needed to heat and dry the dishes.​
A: You will want to replace the Flood Switch part PS8690623.​

Given the breaker tripping, doubt its a stuck flood switch. Well, it could be that part is now preventing the heating element from turning on to cause a short; that is a new problem is fixing an old problem. Perhaps if I clean the flood switch (page 60) my clamp meter will get more exciting readings?

Well, I'm at a loss beyond this... could be time to upgrade.
 
Did you swap out the #14 whip? It could be the switch on the counter for servicing the dishwasher... cheapo electricians us e back feed wiring and they fail... put the wire under the screws on a new switch and often problems go away...
 
...Did you swap out the #14 whip...
Haven't gotten around to anything yet... but there's no "switch" for servicing the dishwasher other than the breaker. I haven't swapped out the 14 gauge wire, figure the worse it could do is be a voltage drop and it's to short to be anything significant. Don't forget that it runs now, the breaker doesn't trip, but it also doesn't heat the water.
 
I can put my dishwasher in service mode. It doesn't produce trouble codes like a vehicle does. But it does allow me to turn on certain features to see what works and what doesn't, with the door open.
 
Haven't gotten around to anything yet... but there's no "switch" for servicing the dishwasher other than the breaker. I haven't swapped out the 14 gauge wire, figure the worse it could do is be a voltage drop and it's to short to be anything significant. Don't forget that it runs now, the breaker doesn't trip, but it also doesn't heat the water.
I as an electrician, am often, I mean REALLY FREQUENTLY, told by customers when their dishwasher doesn’t work that there is no switch for servicing the dishwasher, and there must be an electrical issue... and I arrive, and lean down and flick the switch on, and they are flabbergasted that the switch exists.

I’m not saying you are wrong, I’m just saying that it is overwhelmingly common for there to be a switch.
Either above the counter, or under the sink on the side.
I have seen MANY houses that do not have a switch too...
 
...as an electrician, ... I arrive, and lean down and flick the switch on, and they are flabbergasted that the switch exists.
Education can be expensive! That's why these forums are such a great deal and why I appreciate the advice/tips/insight!

But logic says it can't be a switch in this case because it's runs fine, except for not getting hot. Previously it ran fine, but was popping the circuit breaker.
 
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