Need help with some 5th wheel solar solutions

[dragrty]

Intro: Okay so I know this is a big endeavor, but amid all that is happening in the world I want to set up my 5th wheel to be self sufficient but not have any of the draw backs I normally see. Often times this is the AC and Heater Limitations, I also have some electric bikes to charge as well as dehumidifier to capture water out of the air for water supply I feel with the proper solar array and Eve battery system this could be pulled off.

I actually work for the worlds most efficient solar panel manufacturer and installer so I do have some back ground in solar, but its more towards a grid tied system that can support a good bit of panels and the batteries aren't even made to run AC or water heater.. Plus I cant even buy the damn panels from my company any ways...

What I am working with is a 2021 Jayco north point 377rlbh wife and 2 kids, and I want to make sure I can still plug it into shore power. I am toying with the new Victron Inverter RS 48/6000 with a Victron autotransformer, I don't see my self ever needing more that 5kw of power at any one time and the fact it does a peak of 9kw is enough for the ac to kick on and do its thing, its a pretty much all in one solution that seems to be very efficient. But i dont know how a shore power system would integrate with that... thus a quatro is being considered as well but those are so heavy and bulky and would still need to have a charge controller to function properly.

Thus, I am turning to yall because I have a fair bit of ideas to throw around to see if any of them make sense.

1) An answer to the above mentioned predicament

2)Any way to modify an electric car like a Tesla or other manufacturer that could act as the battery for the 5th wheel?

3) I want this to be a mobile solution and doubt a pure flat mount solar system could supply the power I need to run the mother-ship so which would make most sense? A) automated tilting system? B) Slides to get more panels on the roof? my concern is weight and complexity for this...

4) Battery sizing is alittle tough for me with it being completely off the grid, im thinking a 30kwh... but might need larger? i know alot of people would just keep a generator on hand for the times extra power is needed and i would agree i plan to have one... but I am really trying to have a system that can pretty much do everything on its own, in case fuel is ever an issue

 

[snoobler]

1) As an installer, you must be familiar with an energy audit for system sizing. Link #1 in my signature. That's Step 1. Available solar for any given location is Step 2, link #5 in my signature.

While the RS 48/6000 + autotransformer may work fine for output, will it accept split phase 240VAC from shore power being that it's only single phase 230/240V out?

2) This is a question asked many times. Nothing yet.

3) You won't know for sure until you do an energy audit and establish what you actually need, but I suspect you'll need 3-4 roof's worth of panels.

4) 30kWh based on?

Panels and available sun are your limitation for DAILY power use where your batteries determine how long you can run without charging.

 

[dragrty]

See I really am not sure on this on The victron I’d really love if I could find someone who would do a review on the dang thing, I can’t find a single video of its actual existence.... and I’m not on the install side really, I’m on the sales side of things

 

[snoobler]

It's not intended for the U.S. Market. Has to be special ordered at 60Hz/240V.

@the_colorist might know if the 230VAC Victron hardware can accept 120/240VAC split phase input?

You could absolutely use 2X Quattros in parallel to accept and output split phase 120/240VAC. That's my eventual plan. I have them both, but only one is installed.

 

[cinergi]

You're going to be severely limited by those standard RV rooftop AC's. I think you need mini-split for this to be viable. And then there's your insulation - no idea how good it is. Panels on the roof will help shade the RV; find other ways to keep the sun off the sides of the RV.
You don't need 240v for the RV unless you install a 240v mini split.
I would keep a generator in mind -- just get one that can run off propane and then you won't really have to worry about it; it won't be needed often but you'll always have propane around obviously for running your RV anyway.
I'm lucky to get 3.3kW of solar on my 37' 5th wheel. Since they're flat, I'm going to assume I'll only get 10kWh on a good day. Your dehumidifier and bike charging, etc, in addition to AC and normal usage will be hard to satisfy. Battery won't really matter if your daily production can't keep up. The battery is to get through the night and through bad days.

The 230V Victron's can't take split phase input. You'd need another Autotransformer for that.

 

[HRTKD]

Most of the big trailer guys have to spend oodles of money to power everything or compromise and run the generator to run all the big stuff (two A/C units) at the same time. Soft start modules for the A/C will help.

Most RV trailers simply don't have the available space for the amount of solar panel acreage required to run A/C and still charge the batteries. It's like the manufacturers have never heard of solar and put as much crap on the roof in the worst spots they can.

My trailer is a bit more than half the size of yours. I'm on track to be able to run everything except the A/C for about three days in any weather as long as it's spring, summer or fall. I use solar on the roof and solar panels I deploy on the ground. My trailer is a toy hauler so I have room to store solar panels inside.

 

[willo]

I've got a 37 foot fifth wheel - 2020 Montana High Country. I've put quite a bit of work into it this year.

You may find my notes on changes after this season interesting.

Changes to my build after this summer/fall of usage

Allrighty, I've been making changes to my rig after using it all summer/fall. I figured this may be handy for anyone going the big camper solar route. My rig is a 37 foot Montana High Country 5th wheel camper. I'll try to keep this all electrically related for the moment. The house battery: My...

diysolarforum.com

The trick with the 5th wheel 50A panels is that they are two leg panels.
If you actually want the 6k of capacity, I'd put in a pair of 3k units. (It's actually cheaper too)
This way, each 3k runs one leg and gets fed from one leg of the shore power. That'll allow both the built in transfer circuits to work.
It'll also work with shore 30a power. You could then augment each of the 30a legs with the multiplus's.
With the single 6k inverter, you'll need another switch to combine the legs in the panels.

I use a manual combiner switch to drive both legs off of my inverter. If I have a full 50a hookup, I just click the switch and it connects the second leg directly to the other leg of the panel, while keeping my single multiplus connected to one leg. One nice thing about the wiring with the switch is that it'll be very easy for me to add a second 3000.

I can easily run either of my A/C units off the multiplus. I should add soft starts at some point.

Battery:
I have been using a single tesla module, but will soon swap that out for LifePO4 cells.
My new pack will provide 15KwH of storage, call it 12KwH at 80% DOD. Both are/will be managed by electrodacus SBMS0.
The new pack cost me about $110/KwH thanks to being patient with shipping from overseas. That's about 1/10 of what battleborns would have cost me.

Regarding your Q about using e cars as power sources
They are generally very high voltage systems. You'd need a specific system to handle that sort of input. (For example, they make one just for prius's to act as generators.)

Finally,
you need a plan for your whole system. The complete combination is the key to success. If you're going to run 6000 watts of inverter, then you're going to need a significant amount of battery storage - depending on how many hours you want to run everything.

Example - do you want to be able to run things for three days during stormy weather? Do you just want to charge up from a generator and then be able to run things the rest of the day? Figure out your goals, then make a plan from there.

 

[cinergi]

I'm not sure I understand your comments surrounding the issues of two legs.
First, a 50 amp RV is 12kW of service on two legs, not 6kW. 30 amp RV service is 3.6kW on a SINGLE leg (which gets merged into two legs using those dog bone adapters).
Assuming there are no 240v devices, a single inverter can power both 50 amp legs - just connect L1 and L2 together. The Victron's transfer switch will work just fine in this case, but this would be single phase and can only draw up to 6k from shore (and will create a pretty big imbalance for the campground pedestal). So dual 3k's, as you have done, makes sense. They would either run independently (this gets a little tricky on 30a service with a dog bone adapter - set each Victron so that the combined max draw is 30) or you can set them to combine in split-phase mode (and this will still work on either 50 or 30, no problems). You can also incorporate their Autotransformers for additional configurations/possibilities.

 

[willo]

Damn, that's what I get for posting late at night.
I stand corrected on 30a wiring. I knew better, but misled myself by thinking of the typical dual 30a breaker and didn't spend much time worrying about it.

I am running a single 3k, but it's built so that I can easily add a second.

Happily, my combiner wiring allows for this, since it's designed to account for single pole, single phase anyway. All my AC load wiring is 6awg to account for up to 50a service.

 

[willo]

Here, this explains the functions of my setup.
Left: Normal wiring
Middle: Simple inverter on one leg
Right: Combined legs on a single inverter

As you can see, it's easy to add a second inverter to the middle setup.
With my combiner switch, the camper is in either the middle or right mode. (or just disconnected)

 

[snoobler]

Somebody else had a solution that involved two transfer switches.

Anyone?

 

[Rocketman]

The YouTube channel "All about RV's" Has done several video's on how he uses a switch to go between the 15& 30A and 50A and run his rig on the inverter. He really starts talking about it at the 5min mark

Amazon.com

 

[HRTKD]

I've watched both of Jared's videos on the topic and it seems like each time it confuses me more. Normally Jared is very good at explaining things, so there must be some mental block on my part.

 

[willo]

He is describing exactly what I do. I have diagrams and will get it posted after a bit.

 

[HRTKD]

He is describing exactly what I do. I have diagrams and will get it posted after a bit.

Thanks. I might need a 2x4 between the eyes too.

 

[willo]

@HRTKD hope this helps, I've been meaning to put this junk online for a while now:

DIY Inverter Combiner Switch – Burningflux.com