Need help!

[Hagern.yacht]

the factory how install the system did the settings ? and the mechanic said its oke ????
on the photo's you see the generator just shut-down.... only the amps i did my self 200 amp what to many i set it on 100Ampthe water cames out of the Battery's
Victron mechanic have set the settings from the manuel ( from the battery's ) ???
I ask him normal it's max 28v charging ? for a 24v set ... he said it's ok ?????
All the settings are standerd installed in the victron by the fabric it self. I know it's to high voltage or to low.
All the 3 monteurs ( mechanic ) from victron say the same. So I don't know it anymore. ( I think the battery's are damaged !!! They don't hold the charging anymore 6 to 8 hours normal 3 days.)
So I think that I need new battery's ( send this battery's back to the factory and let dam handle it I have 1 year warranty).
That's why I want to go on litium battery's with a GOOD BMS/charger for that set. So I can't over/under charge .
Now is the question what do I need.

 

[Hagern.yacht]

Have you put a voltmeter on each cell?

yes i did

 

[kernel]

Correct for generator current but for battery current not so much as the load current splits off before the shunt.

On point 2 I'll yield as it's been a while since submarine duty. But still a pretty low number relative to size.

There is no telling the arrangement. It should have input and output shunts. If not, the machine cannot tell what current is which and it is total.

*Tis in the manual on setting end or return amp charge termination for most chargers. I am guessing his victron system has multiple shunts and monitoring, i do not know.

If you set end amps for say 20A and you are drawing 40A it will not stop charging at absorb.

Again the gist of what i get is that the system is set up for soc based charging and amp hour counting to full or empty.

His efficiency setting of 100% basically defeats this mode and is why i suggest bypassing until he actually get a full charge with end amps or time in absorb and hydrometer confirmation it is full.

 

[SCClockDr]

Time for the Victron experts! I question the check mark for Use Equalization...

 

[kernel]

The absorb time of 1 hour, if used (soc charge termination negates) that is terrible low.

If water came out of the batteries once, bad news. If it did every time it charges, ahhhhhhhh!

Look up the charge profile for the specific battery yourself and enter the values. Then tune. Check that temp comensation value is correct.

Basically if it stopped charging and wasnt full, volts are high and fall away with a moderate load it indicates a bad cell or cells. A hydrometer would tell you straight away.

If you lost enough acid from electrolyte expulsion then those cells will not come up or not within the specified range of the others or even the acceptable range.

 

[kernel]

Battery that large start at 10 hours and add or subtract until you are not under or over.

 

[kernel]

There is a battery wholesaler at Detroit if you can sail that tug into the great lakes ill take a look

Of course id have to stay aboard until costa rica! Tuning and all.

 

[kernel]

View attachment 5812View attachment 5813View attachment 5814
the factory how install the system did the settings ? and the mechanic said its oke ????
on the photo's you see the generator just shut-down.... only the amps i did my self 200 amp what to many i set it on 100Ampthe water cames out of the Battery's
Victron mechanic have set the settings from the manuel ( from the battery's ) ???
I ask him normal it's max 28v charging ? for a 24v set ... he said it's ok ?????
All the settings are standerd installed in the victron by the fabric it self. I know it's to high voltage or to low.
All the 3 monteurs ( mechanic ) from victron say the same. So I don't know it anymore. ( I think the battery's are damaged !!! They don't hold the charging anymore 6 to 8 hours normal 3 days.)
So I think that I need new battery's ( send this battery's back to the factory and let dam handle it I have 1 year warranty).
That's why I want to go on litium battery's with a GOOD BMS/charger for that set. So I can't over/under charge .
Now is the question what do I need.

A victron technician should have determined the battery was bad, identified if there were currents from sources outside its control or monitoring etc., which could be allowed to exceed the battery's maximum charge current. Even if the settings are good in their experience, its poor practice to not start with battery manufacturer specs.

I keep voltage in specified range, tone down a bit from max current and float values (bottom of range for float and usually wind up only needing adjust absorbtion time using a hydrometer reading as the mark to hit.

In some cases bumping absorb voltage up a bit can achieve shorter absorb and full charge time durations, but careful as tenths of a volt matter.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

I will concur with others here in saying that there's simply no way that 32v absorption and 30v float charge profile is correct; the typical setting for a 24/8000/200-2x100 is 28.80v absorption and 27.60 float; I strongly suspect that -unless the posted voltages were custom-set by someone based on the particular batteries listed- the Quattro is dramatically overcharging the batteries, boiling off the electrolyte, and that's why multiple sets of batteries are dying after brief existences.

 

[kernel]

It almost seems like the installer is trying to avoid admitting that the install and settings allowed improper charging which resulted in several expensive sets of destroyed batteries...... liability if they admit.

Id get a second opinion from a reputable pro who will put reputation and liability on the line to answer offer their opinion and willing to testify......

 

[John Frum]

It almost seems like the installer is trying to avoid admitting that the install and settings allowed improper charging which resulted in several expensive sets of destroyed batteries...... liability if they admit.

If the installer did this I think they are liable whether they admit or not.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

It almost seems like the installer is trying to avoid admitting that the install and settings allowed improper charging which resulted in several expensive sets of destroyed batteries...... liability if they admit.

That's kinda what I think too... I (regrettably) know installers like that.

 

[kernel]

If the installer did this I think they are liable whether they admit or not.

Poor grammar on my part. 'They accept liability if they admit to improper arrangement or settings.'

 

[KauaiMolokai]

Hi Hagern,
So you have a theory the batteries are bad? That's a good start.
Here are a few points to think about:
Having lead acid batteries when you sail around the world will make it a lot easier to find replacements - like big truck batteries - when you are in some remote place. The chance of finding any LiFePO components in undeveloped places is zero
Just putting in LiFePO batteries will not immediately solve your current problem.
If it was me and I thought one or more batteries was bad I would pull one battery at a time completely out of the system, and charge and check it with a basic charger and check the SG as other posters have suggested. Once you have done that and found either one, more, or no bad batteries, then you can move on to the next theory.
The posters who say your charging amps and voltage are high, sound correct to me. But first you need to find out if any/all of your batteries are ok.

 

[kernel]

Hi Hagern,
So you have a theory the batteries are bad? That's a good start.
Here are a few points to think about:
Having lead acid batteries when you sail around the world will make it a lot easier to find replacements - like big truck batteries - when you are in some remote place. The chance of finding any LiFePO components in undeveloped places is zero
Just putting in LiFePO batteries will not immediately solve your current problem.
If it was me and I thought one or more batteries was bad I would pull one battery at a time completely out of the system, and charge and check it with a basic charger and check the SG as other posters have suggested. Once you have done that and found either one, more, or no bad batteries, then you can move on to the next theory.
The posters who say your charging amps and voltage are high, sound correct to me. But first you need to find out if any/all of your batteries are ok.

Absolutely concise! Troubleshooting perfection.

 

[kernel]

What he said about lead acid is absolutely true. On a ship and with as large a battery you require i cannot see a reason to use lithium aside from being able to charge to full in an hour or two.

Thats pricey performance and you would likely be building with 500Ah or 1000Ah cell$ or equivalent of a Tesla battery at least in type.

Also concur, if you and the equipment cannot keep lead acid batteries alive with their great tolerance for over charging, a battery which cost 5 times more than the one that just failed is not a great idea. Who knows 2hat settings the victron guys would find acceptable there?

 

[kernel]

In defense, we already determined that battery damage is most likely and simply cannot test to confirm.

I cant see a battery that is losing electrolyte out of the top regularly could even produce a satisfactory load and hydrometer test. Yet that is reportedly what his technicians said.

Still, the settings cannot stay there and the battery should not be connected to the sources until all is well.

Great contribution Kauai, right from the universal battery text book page 1 and we should post better next time if you are going to do that...... tha bar is raised

 

[Hagern.yacht]

I gonna tell you the story normally I'm shipper in the Netherlands bringing load between company's.
We use a generator if we sailing if we are loading or unloading we use the inverter If I have a problem I call my boss and he send a mechanic.
15 years long is my dream a world trip with my wife and kids so we bought a small boat
Preparing to make a worldtrip because we have kids on board I want have good stuff so I called a company/ victron to install a system by my wishes.
I told them what the plan was and what I need a guy came and we told our wishes he came with de victron 8000watt 24V.
So he installed he did the settings for the hole system he knows we have 3 generators 50Kwa / 25Kwa and a 12Kwa.
From day 1 we have problems with the battery's. He installed a new set more power... Still problems with the battery.
So I ask him wat can I do we don't use many power or Watt he told search for a solar set 10 panels most enough for living on.
Ok I did. Still not enough so 10 panels more.
Still problem with the battery's. So I ask him what can I do???
He say take litium battery's but a 12V battery's cost 3000 euro each I need minimum 4 and I charger from 1000 euro's. I need 2. Price 14.000 euro's ex.
That's to expansive.
Last option forklift battery's so I told him ok I want to have good ones. You get the best off the best.
Ans still I had the problems so victron send me a mechanic (3 times) still it is not fix. That's the story of the problems from the beginning and till now..
So I want try litium so everything in 1 so battery BMS/charger so I can not over/under charge it or what ever the battery's are safe.
But what do I need you see on the pictures what we are using but I have don't know anything litium battery's.
I send the battery's back to the factory. I think the battery's are damaged.

 

[KauaiMolokai]

Hi Kernel,
Thanks, much appreciate the kind words
Hi Hagern,
Great story. You will have an awesome trip, and a great experience for all including your kids.
Once you are at sea you will need to be 100% self sufficient. No mechanic will come to help you. So you need to understand all the details of this battery problem, 100%. Just because a guy is a technician or works for Victron or anywhere else does not say anything about his real skills, or abilities.
Lithium batteries and a BMS will not solve your problem, mostly because understanding these is extremely complicated. Spending more money with Victron is the last thing I would do.
"I think the batteries are damaged", again, a good theory and a good start. Do whatever it takes to find out if you are correct, but don't send them back to the factory until you KNOW.
You are starting to spend a lot of money on this electrical issue. Once you have found out if any/all/some of the batteries are bad it might be worth getting an expert to help you, even if you have to pay for him to come from some other country. But you only need to contract with someone who has great references and people he has worked for who you can call and check him out.

 

[SCClockDr]

I gonna tell you the story normally I'm shipper in the Netherlands bringing load between company's.
We use a generator if we sailing if we are loading or unloading we use the inverter If I have a problem I call my boss and he send a mechanic.
15 years long is my dream a world trip with my wife and kids so we bought a small boat
Preparing to make a worldtrip because we have kids on board I want have good stuff so I called a company/ victron to install a system by my wishes.
I told them what the plan was and what I need a guy came and we told our wishes he came with de victron 8000watt 24V.
So he installed he did the settings for the hole system he knows we have 3 generators 50Kwa / 25Kwa and a 12Kwa.
From day 1 we have problems with the battery's. He installed a new set more power... Still problems with the battery.
So I ask him wat can I do we don't use many power or Watt he told search for a solar set 10 panels most enough for living on.
Ok I did. Still not enough so 10 panels more.
Still problem with the battery's. So I ask him what can I do???
He say take litium battery's but a 12V battery's cost 3000 euro each I need minimum 4 and I charger from 1000 euro's. I need 2. Price 14.000 euro's ex.
That's to expansive.
Last option forklift battery's so I told him ok I want to have good ones. You get the best off the best.
Ans still I had the problems so victron send me a mechanic (3 times) still it is not fix. That's the story of the problems from the beginning and till now..
So I want try litium so everything in 1 so battery BMS/charger so I can not over/under charge it or what ever the battery's are safe.
But what do I need you see on the pictures what we are using but I have don't know anything litium battery's.
I send the battery's back to the factory. I think the battery's are damaged.

If your issue is with charging more batteries won't solve the issue.
You need to resolve the cause first.
Is shore power available? Are you moored out?