Need professional advice on main service panel wiring.

[Mike 134]

Thanks for replying for Mike, its very good hearing from a Master Electrician. So just to re-verify what you are stating, my main panel is correct in having both the Neutral and Ground bussbars tied together and those all bonded to the case? Yes, that is why you found it like that. And my new manual transfer subpanel should have them both isolated? Yes

See above in red. I bet if you look there is a single #6 wire going from the neutral bus in your main panel to either a cold water pipe and/or a driven ground rod.

 

[ChrisG]

The ground conductor going down the pole is an earth bonding wire. (Not a N/G bond) the N/G bond was installed at the garage panel. This is where "your" grounding system begins. It's a rare setup, but perfectly fine. This is the way it was done sometimes , many years ago.

@timselectric
Thank you for the response. Really wish i had a picture under that right panel, will get one next time I’m at the cabin. I was worried since that grounding cable on the pole is connected to the neutral going to the house (100ft away) that it was the actual first neutral bond of the system. This was installed in the early 80s from what i understand (I’m the second owner).

 

[timselectric]

@timselectric
Thank you for the response. Really wish i had a picture under that right panel, will get one next time I’m at the cabin. I was worried since that grounding cable on the pole is connected to the neutral going to the house (100ft away) that it was the actual first neutral bond of the system. This was installed in the early 80s from what i understand (I’m the second owner).

Not a problem. It's perfectly fine, as long as there's no ground conductor between the two panels. (That would have created a parallel path)

 

[hamm55]

Chiming in on this late but I had numerous questions like this in the past with my DIY electrical projects and wanted to understand the details (e.g. why, how, etc) and this was the most confusing for me.

The link below to a video regarding the subject is one of the resources I used. Reading through literature to learn something is one thing but having it explained in layman's terms and demonstrated is another (second only to experience). He really presents well and easily understood (imho anyway). He does have quite a few videos on all things electrical and other topics also.

Disclaimer: I am not a licensed electrician but the DIY work I do (for myself only) I try to follow the NEC code.

 

[ChrisG]

Not a problem. It's perfectly fine, as long as there's no ground conductor between the two panels. (That would have created a parallel path)

@timselectric Finally got back to the cabin and was able to take these pictures. This connection here to neutral is why I thought this would be the first G/N bond in my system. No way to confirm if this copper wire is the same that connects in my panel (it does not run in the conduit with L1/L2/N) to house which is about 100 ft away. Anyway, based on what you said it's NOT the G/N bond but would like your input again.

I know this needs to get updated/replaced, but this is a pretty remote area. Five calls to electricians led to no where over 6 months outside of empty promise of showing up. Hope one day one will actually come out and look and do the ork

 

[Mattb4]

Edited: My bad I did not realize that the neutral terminal was a bus bar when I looked at your picture. Pretty standard other than that.

 

[ChrisG]

I don't see a neutral coming out from the meter box to the disconnect breaker side. Likely it works because the poles ground is also connected to the transformers neutral. However not a standard install. Is there a neutral wire feeding running up the pole? Where is it terminated if there is one?

The neutral from meter is that thick bar where it connects to the N cable going to house. I measure 120v from that thick bar/white/small ground wire to either of the hot legs in that switch.

 

[timselectric]

@timselectric Finally got back to the cabin and was able to take these pictures. This connection here to neutral is why I thought this would be the first G/N bond in my system. No way to confirm if this copper wire is the same that connects in my panel (it does not run in the conduit with L1/L2/N) to house which is about 100 ft away. Anyway, based on what you said it's NOT the G/N bond but would like your input again.

I know this needs to get updated/replaced, but this is a pretty remote area. Five calls to electricians led to no where over 6 months outside of empty promise of showing up. Hope one day one will actually come out and look and do the orkView attachment 105778View attachment 105779View attachment 105781

Yup
That's exactly what I was expecting.
This is just an earth bond. Not the N/G bond.
It's purpose is to make sure that someone standing on the ground and touching the metal box, doesn't get zapped by stray currents.

 

[Shimmy]

@ChrisG your installation looks correct to me; the utility service is grounded after your meter, and you have a neutral-ground bond at the independent structure-- the cabin. It is a little unclear if the ground wire is just the ground electrode, or if it does go to the cabin; it is best if it goes to the cabin, but it doesn't have to be in the same conduit.

Since you don't have any metal parts that could become energized between the service disconnect and your cabin panel an equipment grounding conductor is not absolutely required. (If you added a 20A breaker for an outlet by the utility pole everything would change.)

 

[ChrisG]

Yup
That's exactly what I was expecting.
This is just an earth bond. Not the N/G bond.
It's purpose is to make sure that someone standing on the ground and touching the metal box, doesn't get zapped by stray currents.

@timselectric Thank you so much for confirming. Just wanted confirmation before adding the inverter/etc. I actually love having that breaker to fully disconnect the house. Was very helpful when wiring critical loads panel to main panel until inverter sits in between them.

 

[timselectric]

@timselectric Thank you so much for confirming. Just wanted confirmation before adding the inverter/etc. I actually love having that breaker to fully disconnect the house. Was very helpful when wiring critical loads panel to main panel until inverter sits in between them.

Just be careful operating that breaker. The box is rusting away. I wouldn't want the breaker to come free, while you have your hand on it. Although it does look like it's still in decent shape around the mounting point.

 

[ChrisG]

Just be careful operating that breaker. The box is rusting away. I wouldn't want the breaker to come free, while you have your hand on it. Although it does look like it's still in decent shape around the mounting point.

Only did it for the install of sub panel in basement which I had to do myself with permit, but inspector won't be out till 2023 they said so whatever. Don't intend on using it much if ever again. If I can get an electrician out here to replace it I would. Called every name the electric Co-Op gave me and no luck.

 

[Mattb4]

If your electric Co-op is like mine you could have them come disconnect your meter service and put in a new meter panel and disconnect that you made ready for them. The local hardware stores used to sell the entire thing ready except your house wires and the utility co. meter.

 

[peakbagger]

Most electric utilities have standards for new installations. They let existing substandard installations exist but once an electrician needs to work on one they need to upgrade to current standards.

 

[ChrisG]

Most electric utilities have standards for new installations. They let existing substandard installations exist but once an electrician needs to work on one they need to upgrade to current standards.

Of course but no electricians. Want new. Need new, no one to do it.