Need some advise regarding my first build.

[Johnyguy]

Not wired, but it can be programmed to behave that way. Victron has downloadable "assistants" that allow for all kinds of custom behavior. I have not yet had to use one, but I just went though it, and using some rules, I was able to generate criteria to "ignore" AC input when battery voltage is above a specified voltage for at least X time. It doesn't completely capture your criteria, but other criteria can be layered on top of that such as state of charge.

Thanks
what i like to do is to use the battery power for my load and when battery goes low switch over to grid but not to charge the battery with grid but with solar .....but now im thinking there is a case when my battery goes down in the middle of the night so than i need the grid to charge the battery in case the battery powering the fridge or something importent to keep it running.... you think it is possible ?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thanks
what i like to do is to use the battery power for my load and when battery goes low switch over to grid but not to charge the battery with grid but with solar .....but now im thinking there is a case when my battery goes down in the middle of the night so than i need the grid to charge the battery in case the battery powering the fridge or something importent to keep it running.... you think it is possible ?

The only thing I'm not sure of is if you can force it to stay on grid and fully charge the battery once triggered. At a minimum, I'm sure you can have it cycle back and forth between battery power and grid until you get solar pushing the battery higher in the morning.

I suspect that once triggered, it stays on AC input. Then a second criteria is used to switch back to inverting.

Actually, poking around the settings, they have a simplified version called "Virtual Switch." They act as triggers.



If the virtual switch is ON, it will NOT ignore AC



Basically, if V < 47 for 60 seconds OR it's hit with a big load of 4549W (you didn't ask, but I selected it for giggles) for 10 seconds, it will switch to AC input



When battery voltage has reached 56V for 10 seconds, ignore AC input. You would have to disable the charger, otherwise, it would charge with grid:

 

[Johnyguy]

The only thing I'm not sure of is if you can force it to stay on grid and fully charge the battery once triggered. At a minimum, I'm sure you can have it cycle back and forth between battery power and grid until you get solar pushing the battery higher in the morning.

I suspect that once triggered, it stays on AC input. Then a second criteria is used to switch back to inverting.

Actually, poking around the settings, they have a simplified version called "Virtual Switch." They act as triggers.

View attachment 74613

If the virtual switch is ON, it will NOT ignore AC

View attachment 74614

Basically, if V < 47 for 60 seconds OR it's hit with a big load of 4549W (you didn't ask, but I selected it for giggles) for 10 seconds, it will switch to AC input

View attachment 74616

When battery voltage has reached 56V for 10 seconds, ignore AC input. You would have to disable the charger, otherwise, it would charge with grid:

View attachment 74617

Ok so here is the a full day scenario :
Start with a fully charged battery using some load like a fridge ...
by end of the day battery goes low even solar is charging all this time but now optimal to keep up with the load...
Battery reaches low cut of I want to have grid takes over the load and continue supplying the power and maybe starting to charge as well ( i am not sure about that )? But not to charge fully? (This could be controld by the voltage I am setting the charger I guess) so when the sun comes up it takes over the charging but maybe it cannot keep up with the load so the grid is stayes on untill the battery charged enough.?
Also like i mentioned before in the middle of the night when the battery goes low for sure i need the grid to take over to power the load.....

It is kind of complicated don't you think?
I could email victron and ask if this can be done what they think as well

Thanks for your time!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Ok so here is the a full day scenario :
Start with a fully charged battery using some load like a fridge ...
by end of the day battery goes low even solar is charging all this time but now optimal to keep up with the load...
Battery reaches low cut of I want to have grid takes over the load and continue supplying the power and maybe starting to charge as well ( i am not sure about that )? But not to charge fully? (This could be controld by the voltage I am setting the charger I guess)

Yep. You could lower the bulk voltage and/or restrict the charge current.

so when the sun comes up it takes over the charging but maybe it cannot keep up with the load so the grid is stayes on untill the battery charged enough.?

You'd have to manage it solely in the inverter by balancing inverter charge voltage and current, but the inverter would stay in AC input power mode until the upper criteria is reached.

Also like i mentioned before in the middle of the night when the battery goes low for sure i need the grid to take over to power the load.....

That's covered in the above example.

It is kind of complicated don't you think?
I could email victron and ask if this can be done what they think as well

You could, but I think I clearly demonstrated that you can get what you want or at least a very close approximation.

 

[Johnyguy]

Yep. You could lower the bulk voltage and/or restrict the charge current.



You'd have to manage it solely in the inverter by balancing inverter charge voltage and current, but the inverter would stay in AC input power mode until the upper criteria is reached.



That's covered in the above example.



You could, but I think I clearly demonstrated that you can get what you want or at least a very close approximation.

Thank you !!

Are you off grid?
how much battery you have if you dont mind me to ask?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thank you !!

Are you off grid?
how much battery you have if you dont mind me to ask?

Yes. It's our vacation property... 39 acres, 2X 5th wheel trailers as "cabins," a 40' shipping container with all the off-grid stuff inside wired to a 50A RV power pedestal. We'll eventually build a dwelling and retire there, so the system is planned for the end-goal. 8kW from dual Quattros running in split phase, 6kW solar, with another 5kW of panels from SanTan if I need them.

Currently only about 12kWh (de-rated from 15kWh due to capacity testing) of FLA, but I'm working on getting a Lithium built. The lithium will be about 50kWh.

 

[Johnyguy]

Yes. It's our vacation property... 39 acres, 2X 5th wheel trailers as "cabins," a 40' shipping container with all the off-grid stuff inside wired to a 50A RV power pedestal. We'll eventually build a dwelling and retire there, so the system is planned for the end-goal. 8kW from dual Quattros running in split phase, 6kW solar, with another 5kW of panels from SanTan if I need them.

Currently only about 12kWh (de-rated from 15kWh due to capacity testing) of FLA, but I'm working on getting a Lithium built. The lithium will be about 50kWh.

wow that's huge!

I have decided to get the victron 24V/3000 inverter charger i got a good deal on ebay under $1100 so yes it is expensive but i think it is a much better product than the sungoldpower one with a ton of adjustments customazation ...

It is a long term project going to take time ...i will have to get some solar panels i see newpower and rich solar on amazon .
In the mean time i will have to run a 6 gauge wire for the inverter to the closet from the main panel the battery and the inverter will be placed in the closet where i have room and the wires to the lights what i wanna power from the inverter,
Also was thinking to use a switch to have an option to go back to grid power and use some heavy duty switches to choose from grid to battery ,my place is under construction so it is easier to do now than later....

If this all works out than i will be able to use the batterys on the daily basis and they wont be just sitting here for a emergency use ( one hope that's never happens)

 

[sunshine_eggo]

wow that's huge!

I have decided to get the victron 24V/3000 inverter charger i got a good deal on ebay under $1100 so yes it is expensive but i think it is a much better product than the sungoldpower one with a ton of adjustments customazation ...

I would hesitate to purchase something like that on ebay. I would choose to purchase for $100-150 more from a known distributor.

It is a long term project going to take time ...i will have to get some solar panels i see newpower and rich solar on amazon .
In the mean time i will have to run a 6 gauge wire for the inverter to the closet from the main panel the battery and the inverter will be placed in the closet where i have room and the wires to the lights what i wanna power from the inverter,

I hear you. Been working on mine for 2+ years.

Also was thinking to use a switch to have an option to go back to grid power and use some heavy duty switches to choose from grid to battery ,my place is under construction so it is easier to do now than later....

A simple breaker (which you need to install anyway) on the L wire to AC input is an effective switch to toggle grid input if you want to control it that way.


The more planning you do looking towards your end goal will benefit you now. If you design your "final" system, you can figure out how best to piecemeal it rather than replacing components. I have a whole 24V system on a shelf because I didn't follow that advice.

 

[Johnyguy]

I would hesitate to purchase something like that on ebay. I would choose to purchase for $100-150 more from a known distributor.



I hear you. Been working on mine for 2+ years.



A simple breaker (which you need to install anyway) on the L wire to AC input is an effective switch to toggle grid input if you want to control it that way.


The more planning you do looking towards your end goal will benefit you now. If you design your "final" system, you can figure out how best to piecemeal it rather than replacing components. I have a whole 24V system on a shelf because I didn't follow that advice.

This guy i got the inverter from he has had sold many and he has more to sell right now it should be fine ....

you mean to have a breaker when i bring the 50A power to the inverter AC input I will have a braker at the main box that i can use to control if AC goes to inverter ..but i will need to be able to switch from grid to inverter those loads i wanna power if i wanna eliminate the inverter all together.

I will have a sub panel at the inverter and all loads connected to them with breakers but i will have to wire those loads in to the sub panel correct?
so i will have to bring a separate line ?
Also i could bring them from the main panel so that is where i thought i would have a on/off switch grid/inverter

what do you think?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

This guy i got the inverter from he has had sold many and he has more to sell right now it should be fine ....

you mean to have a breaker when i bring the 50A power to the inverter AC input I will have a braker at the main box that i can use to control if AC goes to inverter ..but i will need to be able to switch from grid to inverter those loads i wanna power if i wanna eliminate the inverter all together.

Not following you.

I will have a sub panel at the inverter and all loads connected to them with breakers but i will have to wire those loads in to the sub panel correct?

I think so.

so i will have to bring a separate line ?

Lost me.

Also i could bring them from the main panel so that is where i thought i would have a on/off switch grid/inverter

I don't think so. The inverter can be configured to just sit there with the batteries topped off and pass through the AC input to the loads. That is the default mode when AC in is present.

If you want to bypass the inverter, you would need a transfer switch to connect the grid to subpanel and another to disconnect inverter output to subpanel.

 

[Johnyguy]

Not following you.



I think so.



Lost me.




I don't think so. The inverter can be configured to just sit there with the batteries topped off and pass through the AC input to the loads. That is the default mode when AC in is present.

If you want to bypass the inverter, you would need a transfer switch to connect the grid to subpanel and another to disconnect inverter output to subpanel.

so i like to power the lights upstairs second floor and the lights on the first floor and power the fridge and some outlets in the livingroom..

All this loads now connected to the main panel/grid

i will bring a 50 A wire to the inverter plus connect the battery .
I will have a breaker from main panel to inverter so i can use that to cut the AC power to the inverter.
But i will needs to bring all the circuits to the sub panel by the inverter if i want to power them from the inverter and switcing the power from grid or from battery.

so I will need a switch if i want to separate the 2 obviously.

so that is called a manual trasnfer switch?

since i have all circuits in the main panel for lights etc i could use a manual transfer switch to bring it power it from the inverter or from the main panel . plus i need to bring all wires to sub panel

Right? like this for indivsual circuits
1grid/2 inverter/solar

 

[sunshine_eggo]

so i like to power the lights upstairs second floor and the lights on the first floor and power the fridge and some outlets in the livingroom..

All this loads now connected to the main panel/grid

Gotcha.

i will bring a 50 A wire to the inverter plus connect the battery .
I will have a breaker from main panel to inverter so i can use that to cut the AC power to the inverter.

Cool.

But i will needs to bring all the circuits to the sub panel by the inverter if i want to power them from the inverter and switcing the power from grid or from battery.

As long as you keep in mind that inverter output and grid must NEVER touch AT ALL even on only the neutral.

so I will need a switch if i want to separate the 2 obviously.

so that is called a manual trasnfer switch?

since i have all circuits in the main panel for lights etc i could use a manual transfer switch to bring it power it from the inverter or from the main panel . plus i need to bring all wires to sub panel

Right? like this

Link to data on that switch?

 

[Johnyguy]

Gotcha.



Cool.



As long as you keep in mind that inverter output and grid must NEVER touch AT ALL even on only the neutral.



Link to data on that switch?

this is just one example there is many others available ....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SWW5DRS/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=A1POY47GM797OI&th=1

 

[Johnyguy]

Gotcha.



Cool.



As long as you keep in mind that inverter output and grid must NEVER touch AT ALL even on only the neutral.



Link to data on that switch?

just thinking out load ..
it would be less complicated to bring circuits from the main panel the one i like to power and have them permanently connected to the inverter sub panel once i figure out which one i wan to power from there so than i need no switches also the inverter can pass through the AC ....
And also install some new curcuits just for the solar alone dedicated outlets in the livingroom....

 

[Johnyguy]

Yes. It's our vacation property... 39 acres, 2X 5th wheel trailers as "cabins," a 40' shipping container with all the off-grid stuff inside wired to a 50A RV power pedestal. We'll eventually build a dwelling and retire there, so the system is planned for the end-goal. 8kW from dual Quattros running in split phase, 6kW solar, with another 5kW of panels from SanTan if I need them.

Currently only about 12kWh (de-rated from 15kWh due to capacity testing) of FLA, but I'm working on getting a Lithium built. The lithium will be about 50kWh.

hi do you have nay issues with flickering LED lights?
some has reported on a inverter experience flickering

 

[sunshine_eggo]

hi do you have nay issues with flickering LED lights?
some has reported on a inverter experience flickering

No flickering. All RV lights in regular use are LED.

 

[Johnyguy]

No flickering. All RV lights in regular use are LED.

good to know
is that where you use 2 victrons?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

good to know
is that where you use 2 victrons?

Currently just running on the single, but the 2nd is mounted, and I should have them running parallel in 120/240V split phase in the near-ish future. I re-read my message describing my system, and I realize there was some ambiguity - it was described in the context of the end-goal. I have all the hardware, but the second inverter isn't deployed and 3kW of the 6kW is still IN the container.

 

[Johnyguy]

Anyone has any experience with suntan solar panels they are selling them at ebay for a very low price 300W around $120

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Anyone has any experience with suntan solar panels they are selling them at ebay for a very low price 300W around $120

Link?

Do you mean SanTan?