Need Will's review:

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
1,635
If you think someone is breaking the T&Cs your recourse is to report it.
Breaking the T&Cs yourself is what causes problems. Once you do that, you're no longer the victim, but equally guilty.

In regards to this thread. Eventually, Mr. Prowse will investigate the matter of my being a shill and abusing my authority. Rest assured he will take the actions he feels appropriate.
Wonderful.
 

curiouscarbon

Science Penguin
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,578
This thread isn't the place to discuss how moderator's should correct bad behavior, it's off-topic.
fair enough, i kinda digress into general discussion
This thread is about one specific moderator (i.e., me) being in league with vendors and misusing their authority to selectively edit, delete posts, and stop the discussion for remuneration.
i think svetz is a valuable mod who exercises good judgement from what i’ve observed..

“being in league with vendors” sounds far fetched to me. i definitely think svetz wants to call out bad vendor behavior as much as anyone here.

people don’t see each other’s faces here and either way people sometimes forget there are people sitting on the other side of the computer screen somewhere who read the messages. it happens to most of us at least once a year. maybe more likely when hungry or tired.. or not had coffee yet.

i’m grateful that there are people taking time out of their day to facilitate this forum to remain civil enough to keep the awesome conversations flowing.

from what i can tell, the person was really upset because they said matched but didn’t clarify what exact level of matching?

there was another user who had some awful experience ordering a ton of cells and they spammed the entire forum about it and i totally empathize with them but it got to the point of derailing random threads.

anyways my point is that i think svetz is generally cool and i’m totally not complaining about anyone wanting assurance that the moderation is for a wholesome cause.

i do think people could be more excellent to each other here, though.. times are really tough and lead times are up and prices of various stuff is up, every bit of kindness on the forum can really keep things moving.

/unsolicited viewpoint
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
1,635
fair enough, i kinda digress into general discussion

i think svetz is a valuable mod who exercises good judgement from what i’ve observed..

“being in league with vendors” sounds far fetched to me. i definitely think svetz wants to call out bad vendor behavior as much as anyone here.

people don’t see each other’s faces here and either way people sometimes forget there are people sitting on the other side of the computer screen somewhere who read the messages. it happens to most of us at least once a year. maybe more likely when hungry or tired.. or not had coffee yet.

i’m grateful that there are people taking time out of their day to facilitate this forum to remain civil enough to keep the awesome conversations flowing.

from what i can tell, the person was really upset because they said matched but didn’t clarify what exact level of matching?

there was another user who had some awful experience ordering a ton of cells and they spammed the entire forum about it and i totally empathize with them but it got to the point of derailing random threads.

anyways my point is that i think svetz is generally cool and i’m totally not complaining about anyone wanting assurance that the moderation is for a wholesome cause.

i do think people could be more excellent to each other here, though.. times are really tough and lead times are up and prices of various stuff is up, every bit of kindness on the forum can really keep things moving.

/unsolicited viewpoint
/welcomed viewpoint

To make sure transparency is had, i never said svetz was "in league with vendors." I said he was making questionable decisions (with regards to a specific thread) which shined a questionable light on his integrity. I stand by what I said. Not my fault he chose to blow it out of proportion, in order to try and make it something it isn't. why? i don't know. Would you like me to speculate? I have a few plausible possibilities.

As for svetz being a good mod. That may or may not be accurate. I disagree (based on my recent experience).

Mods have to be held to a higher standard (like it or not). Would I make a good mod? lmao....I'm forward and unfiltered, and I won't give those traits up for anything. I can (and do) restrain them. Usually when I unrestrain it's a conscious decision and not one driven by emotion. That's not to say I am perfect, because I am not. No doubt there are plenty
who can relate.

That's not to say I've never been a mod. Been there, done that.

As for the little diysolar cartel/clique/anon-troll-briggade...(whatever you want to call it), I am curious as to what will be done about that. It does exist, and the existence of this thread is proof of it.

I think part of the problem is some members get a little big in the head becuase they seem like gods to the laymen who want to DIY. They contribute (perhaps started contributing) out of a desire to give back to the community and be helpful. As others who join do. But as time goes by, it seems some think they should have a lock/monopoly on commenting/discussing or on opinions. Perhaps they think their viewpoints are the only ones that matter
or the only ones that deserve weight. Regardless, the second you start throwing your helpful assistance into people's faces, it might be time to check yourself and re-ask yourself why you're doing it. Is it still for the right reasons?

I don't care who you are, you don't have to like me, but you will show me the same respect that you expect. If you can't do that, don't cry foul. Keep trying to set "traps" though. As I uncover them I'll report them. Eventually a trail will lead somewhere.
 
Last edited:

curiouscarbon

Science Penguin
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,578
All I know is that I really like visiting this forum but the thought of being responsible for moderating it gives me the heebie jeebies, the task is itself of choosing when to change or delete other people’s posts. Important task, but it make my brain hurt.
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
1,635
All I know is that I really like visiting this forum but the thought of being responsible for moderating it gives me the heebie jeebies, the task is itself of choosing when to change or delete other people’s posts. Important task, but it make my brain hurt.
There's a simple solution. Don't change people's
posts.

Delete is a powerful tool that can be used wisely.

Redacting is also a possibility. IIRC (been a long time) CSS has a bg_text attribute.

This could cover the offending text giving people a choice whether to read or not. A simple highlight can expose it. I've also seen you mention other tactics, somewhere.
 

Supervstech

Administrator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
6,255
There's a simple solution. Don't change people's
posts.

Delete is a powerful tool that can be used wisely.

Redacting is also a possibility. IIRC (been a long time) CSS has a bg_text attribute.

This would cover the offending text giving people a choice whether to read or not. A simple highlight can expose it. I've also seen you mention other tactics, somewhere.
I don’t think mods change posts… they should only delete derogatory parts, or the entire post.

Feel free to report any posts you or anyone thinks were changed, and I or another admin can pull up the original post, and confirm. It’s indelible. The forum saves everything.
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
1,635
I don’t think mods change posts… they should only delete derogatory parts, or the entire post.

Feel free to report any posts you or anyone thinks were changed, and I or another admin can pull up the original post, and confirm. It’s indelible. The forum saves everything.
I'm not saying this to be argumentative, I'm saying it because it matters: deleting part of a post is changing that post.

and...it causes this circular discussion.
 

Mallory 015

New Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
1
That's me making those questionable decisions folks....which anyone looking at the thread can know since I stated pretty clearly why I closed the thread.

The issue was also already bumped to Will & other moderators in a conversation rather than a public forum. Because while saying moderators are doing no-nos is fun and might feel righteous, it doesn't help the viewers have faith in the forums. Moderations need to be above reproach after all. So, up to other moderators to handle this thread.

But, since it's in a public forum, I'll just reiterate that the thread was closed because members can't seem to help but make accusations towards other members such as the attack above (which I can't quote lest I be breaking the rules). I cleaned the thread up last night, deletes and edits, and then did so again this morning (after more reports on it) when I closed it. (btw, I'm not perfect, if you see something that's still disrespectful in that thread (well, any thread really) please report it for review).

Ohhh Nooooo..... Svetz you sleaze mod in bed with those chinese vendors!!!! The horror!! The shock!!! The Shame!!!!

Everybody has the right to have an opinion and liking a vendor doesn't mean you're in bed with them. Suggesting otherwise without proof is an attack on their character. Definitely not a way to make friends or win an argument.

While you can have an opinion, you can't be disrespectful of other members. Doing so gets you points on the forum.

Easy for me to disprove in my case. If you go through every post I've ever written, you'll see I've never said anything good or bad about the vendor. But, my opinion is you buy cheap cells from countries with no consumer protections and you should expect to get screwed.

What I have written constantly about is be MOST EXCELLENT TO YOUR FELLOW Members.

DngV74HW0AA27bv.jpg


So please, be kind to one another.
Well said. ☺️
 

Bob B

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
3,379
Much of the discussion in that thread has moved to another thread ..... So far, it has remained fairly civil and I hope it will stay that way.
Amy has answered the concerns of HighVolt who was the OP of the thread in question ... and also to MrPhoton who started the other thread.
To HighVolt, she told him that his cells were within 2% of each other in capacity and were all over 289 AH .... which is their standard and EVE's standard for grade A cells.
It looks like Amy is going a good job of diffusing the concerns ...... below is one snippet directed to HighVolt who was the OP in the thread in question.
1630436029650.png
To @DerpsyDoodler ... I do understand that your concern for the OP was that .... he didn't get what he paid for .... Amy is indicating that he did get what he paid for ... had already messaged him about it ... and is assuring that if anyone didn't receive what they paid for it will be taken care of.

The outcome of MrPhoton's complaint is yet to be determined pending delivery of his cells which should arrive in the next couple of weeks.

For my part in the thread that go shut down and edited .... I apologize for responding with anger. Sometimes I don't handle it as I should when I am being called names.

I'm not posting the link to the other thread here, but it can be easily found.
 

Bob B

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
3,379
My concern for the thread that was shut down is that now Amy will not have a chance to post her response to the OP who brought her reputation into question.
People who do a search, will find that thread and very possibly have the wrong impression of the facts .... and Amy's reputation may be harmed.
 

ereams65

Solar Addict
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
282
End of the day Amy has her own thread to air any of those discussions.

I think about 90% of the issues popping up in any online forum is vernacular driven. We know that we tend to read in the vernacular of our particular mood and it’s why most people would be doing a service to themselves and others if they self-edit. It’s the drawback to virtual interaction; we lose the ability to a)get to know the speaker and more importantly, b)see their eyes and facial expressions to add context to what they’re trying to say. Not sure it’s a ‘solve-able’ problem
 

Bob B

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
3,379
End of the day Amy has her own thread to air any of those discussions.
The problem will be if someone does a search and finds that thread .... which is now closed to further posting. Are those people going to find a comment about that thread on a completely different thread? Not likely.

Visualize that that thread challenged your reputation .... and by the time you found it it was closed to further posting.
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
1,635
The problem will be if someone does a search and finds that thread .... which is now closed to further posting. Are those people going to find a comment about that thread on a completely different thread? Not likely.

Visualize that that thread challenged your reputation .... and by the time you found it it was closed to further posting.
Well the great thing about digital as opposed to chiseled stone, is that it can all be easily cleared up. Perhaps with the good graces of OP, said thread (assuming agreeable outcome) can simply be deleted or somehow marked as resolved.

It seems like amy is trying to work through it, which is not surprising to me. Regardless of what she said about the model differences, I still want to hear/see that information directly from EVE. Not that I don't trust >her<. let's just be honest, a lot of misinformation tends to get passed down from/through/by vendors (whether problems in translation, looking for any answer to give, or outright lying).

Maybe the final info on the serial codes can go in a sticky/resource thread for anyone's reference moving forward.

If I can help it, I won't comment any more about that fiasco of a thread.

I believe apologies should be sincere. I can't say that would be the case from me at this point in time, so I'll just leave it as is. It's been the equivalent of en emotional roller coaster. That leaves me wondering what the $&@# im feeling myself let alone trying to apologize to anyone else and mean it.
 

Will Prowse

Admin
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
1,571
Location
Las Vegas
I have not had a chance to read all of these messages, or the reports. I see the notifications. Haven't had a single spare minute in a week. Just let the smoke out of an active balance board (I still hate them), and I am trying to figure out what went wrong. Will be back to look over the responses in due time.
 

Will Prowse

Admin
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
1,571
Location
Las Vegas
I am back. I think the thread should not have been locked unless it got really out of control. It seemed like they had reason to be mad. I get accused to being a shill for every company on the planet, so I understand how much it can piss one off. But I do like being able to respond in a public forum to stand my ground. If someone is accusing a mod of being something they are not, they should hold their ground and allow for discussion back. If someone is simply screaming or threatening for no reason at all, I could understand why a thread should be locked. Especially about political topics or inappropriate topics.

But that is my opinion. Each mod has different styles of moderation. I like the "hands off" approach, and I only act when someone says something truly awful. But this is subjective.

Hmm, looks like the new thread allows amy to respond. And it seems like the other members are aware of this new thread. Personally, I would have not locked the thread, even if there are personal attacks against me. I would respond. Or not. Sometimes responding does not help solve anything. I will keep an eye on the reports and see if this happens again. I only act if I have a good likelihood of improving the situation. If not, I let it be.
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
Sep 20, 2019
Messages
4,934
Location
Key Largo
Had a chat with Will. He was disturbed by the number of complaints against me and has concluded a certain amount of hostility is healthy. As my primary motivation for being a moderator is to promote discussion without personal attacks our goals are no longer aligned and I asked that he remove me as a moderator. I know a lot of you supported that ideal in this thread and others and I just wanted to say thank you.
 

noenegdod

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Messages
643
Had a chat with Will. He was disturbed by the number of complaints against me and has concluded a certain amount of hostility is healthy. As my primary motivation for being a moderator is to promote discussion without personal attacks our goals are no longer aligned and I asked that he remove me as a moderator. I know a lot of you supported that ideal in this thread and others and I just wanted to say thank you.
Thank you for your service and I applaud your decision. I also applaud those who pushed back. Sterilizing discussion and censoring everything that makes you or someone else feel less than good is damaging to society at large. Obviously there are limits and when it reaches "abuse" levels it needs to be stopped but the fear and avoidance of negative feeling makes you weak. What has happened here is a far left of center ideology colliding with what I would consider a center or just right of center expectation of free speech. Good on everyone involved and thank you for giving a f@&k.
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
Sep 20, 2019
Messages
4,934
Location
Key Largo
Sterilizing discussion and censoring everything that makes you or someone else feel less than good is damaging to society at large.
So, first off the "everything" is simply ridiculous overblown hyperbole, a story you tell yourself to justify your thoughts and reasoning.

The reality is I didn't know what was going on in that thread until there were numerous reports, from both sides. That is both sides thought the thread had gone to hell and they were requesting moderator help.

When I looked, it was indeed bad enough to take action. But as is usual in those cases both sides had attacked the other and so both sides got edits, deletes, and warnings for violating the T&Cs. So sure, both sides were unhappy I didn't side exclusively with them and both sides were unhappy with me for giving them points. All the moderators and Will have access to the pre-edited content and know exactly what was said. It wasn't until after they got the help they requested that they were unhappy with me and this thread accusing me of being in the opposite camp appeared.

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel a lot of the discussion on this is purposeful obfuscation and self-rationalization of members that don't want to take responsibility for members hurting members. For those that apologized afterward that it was the "heat of the moment" I certainly understand as it was heated. It broke my heart to give points to Steve who was savaged (but gave back as good as got) and I asked WIll to consider reversing it based on the circumstances (@Steve_S - to be honest though, if I were in your shoes I might have said the same thing to those ungrateful little <explicative self-deleted so as to not violate T&Cs> ).

For the record, all edits/deletes were only removing members' attacks on other members. The discussion regarding the vendor was untouched.
To the best of my knowledge not one of them has reported a post that was edited and asked for a review.

Edits were needed instead of deletes so that the vendor viewpoints (on both sides) could be preserved - not to in any way censor the topic. If you look at the posts in the thread, you'll see there's still a lot of anger and heat, but the edits removed the anger and heat towards other members. Members don't be deserved to be abused simply because they have an opinion different than you. The topic was the vendor, not which member was the most inbred.

What has happened here is a far left of center ideology colliding with what I would consider a center or just right of center expectation of free speech.
I don't believe name-calling, unfounded accusations, or character assassination has any value in free speech.

Personal attacks are a way to stifle discussion when you don't have a solid compelling argument and yet still want to "win". It's a tactic that bullies use.

The violence of that language also discourages many from participating, silencing their voices.
 

curiouscarbon

Science Penguin
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,578
Posts that ”cross the line” from [ brusque liberty speech ] to [ internet cool person e-bullying ], will continue to get my reports :)

Excited to see what projects are coming up next from everyone.
 
Top